The Pig - Power Overhaul

Mercury

Hello dear people of the fog, I'd like to suggest some ideas I've collected for some time now, about our dearest Pig, aka. Amanda Young.

I would like to start of by saying that I enjoy playing the Pig, but she feels a little underwhelming at times. Part of this is, that I feel like Survivors don't feel threatened by having a trap on their head AT ALL. Some go as far as activating gens when other people have a trap on their head and being like: "Eh, not my problem just get the key first box and it's fine."

The worst part is... it flippin' works. The power which is supposed to give you more time doesn't feel like it's giving you any. This is an opinion, so let's not go off the rail here, but it's frustrating to see them not even care that someone has got a bear trap on... like- come on.

This is where I had a great idea, which I feel like would turn the Pig into one of the most fearsome Killers in the fog. RBT fuction as a secondary hook for the Pig.

[Spoiler Warning for Saw VI] Let me elaborate how I got this idea and how exactly it would function. I'm fairly certain we all remember the scene of Hoffman and the RBT on his head. In his presumably last moments he smashes his head with the trap on top through the metal bars in the door, effectively stopping the trap for the time being. The way his trap only opened partially gave me this idea.

Here's how this all would work out:

• The Pig can put traps on a dying survivor.
• These traps can not be taken off until the exit gates are powered. (I'll get to this shortly.)
• The traps are active the moment they are put on a survivor and are affected by completed generators.
• Completing a generator while a Survivor wears a RBT will rip it open partially, immediately sending them into the next hook phase. Survivors in a chase, on the hook or in the dying state are not affected. (Basically the same as of right now.)
• To prevent this the Survivors with a RBT on their head have to check Jigsaw boxes for a key. If a survivor has a key the trap will not rip open partially and use up the found key. They will have to repeat and check the Jigsaw box for a new key before repairing the next generator.
• Once the exit gates have been powered, the trap timer starts ticking down.

From this point it is mostly the same. You may not exit via the exit gate, since it would kill you. The time is set to 2:30 minutes to prevent death by the RBT. Being chased, being on the hook or being in the dying state stops the timer.

To me it would feel like the RBT would actually do what they are meant to do at that point, which is effectively stall the game, while not being too deadly, if played accordingly. This way it leaves you with more time to go after people without a bear trap, while it should also stop the need for tunneling a trapped survivor. Survivors would be notified by a small key icon next to the person, that it is safe to activate the generator now.

There is a smaller change I would like to suggest to her ambush as well.

-The crouch animation should be sped up, to the degree of combat straps. A rework to the add-on would be appreciated.

• The speed during the ambush should be the same as Hag's, Huntress and Doctor in treatment mode.
• The camera height should be aligned with the actual height the Pig is at. Right now it is way too low to the ground.
• Other things that are probably being worked on already though are the screech, which should be slightly delayed with the attack and the insidious noise ultimately killing her surprise attack.

I would be glad to hear all of your thoughts, especially of some Pig mains, since they would probably have the best view on this. Until then, have fun fellow fog travelers.

NMCKE

Mercury said:

Here's how this all would work out:

• The Pig can put traps on a dying survivor.
• These traps can not be taken off until the exit gates are powered. (I'll get to this shortly.)
• The traps are active the moment they are put on a survivor and are affected by completed generators.
• Completing a generator while a Survivor wears a RBT will rip it open partially, immediately sending them into the next hook phase. Survivors in a chase, on the hook or in the dying state are not affected. (Basically the same as of right now.)
• To prevent this the Survivors with a RBT on their head have to check Jigsaw boxes for a key. If a survivor has a key the trap will not rip open partially and use up the found key. They will have to repeat and check the Jigsaw box for a new key before repairing the next generator.
• Once the exit gates have been powered, the trap timer starts ticking down.

From this point it is mostly the same. You may not exit via the exit gate, since it would kill you. The time is set to 2:30 minutes to prevent death by the RBT. Being chased, being on the hook or being in the dying state stops the timer.

To me it would feel like the RBT would actually do what they are meant to do at that point, which is effectively stall the game, while not being too deadly, if played accordingly. This way it leaves you with more time to go after people without a bear trap, while it should also stop the need for tunneling a trapped survivor. Survivors would be notified by a small key icon next to the person, that it is safe to activate the generator now.

There is a smaller change I would like to suggest to her ambush as well.

-The crouch animation should be sped up, to the degree of combat straps. A rework to the add-on would be appreciated.
- The speed during the ambush should be the same as Hag's, Huntress and Doctor in treatment mode.
- The camera height should be aligned with the actual height the Pig is at. Right now it is way too low to the ground.
- Other things that are probably being worked on already though are the screech, which should be slightly delayed with the attack and the insidious noise ultimately killing her surprise attack.

I would be glad to hear all of your thoughts, especially of some Pig mains, since they would probably have the best view on this. Until then, have fun fellow fog travelers.

Basically if you don't find a key before the next generator is powered, you'll proceed to the next hook phase without needing to be hooked. I love the idea but it can cause trolls, AKA survivors that want to ruin your game and be douche bags. They would run around and complete generators just to screw with other survivors who haven't yet found a key. If you can solve that issue then I'm 100% fine with this complete rework, great idea @Mercury  

Question: If your on death hook and you fail to find a key before the next generator... will the RBT instantly kill you?

Mercury

@Nickenzie said:
Basically if you don't find a key before the next generator is powered, you'll proceed to the next hook phase without needing to be hooked. I love the idea but it can cause trolls, AKA survivors that want to ruin your game and be douche bags. They would run around and complete generators just to screw with other survivors who haven't yet found a key. If you can solve that issue then I'm 100% fine with this complete rework, great idea @Mercury  

Question: If your on death hook and you fail to find a key before the next generator... will the RBT instantly kill you?

Both valid and very good questions.

About the Survivor trolls:

This can go either way.

If a Survivor should activate a generator while another has a RBT on their head and is missing a key, the entity spawns a RBT on the other Survivor's head. (The one that activated the gen.)

Or

If a Survivor should activate a generator while another has a RBT on their head and is missing a key, the RBT is transfered to their head and they suffer one hook state.

In both cases, if they already have a RBT on they suffer one hook state, even if they have collected a key.

About the death hook question. This one is tough. I'd like to see it played on a ptb first, since it technically should kill you on your death hook. But I also would be okay with it only snapping shut to a degree, where you are in the dying state. The death snap could then potentially only happen in the end-game when the timer is ticking.

Abyssionknight

So I down someone, trap them, hook them, and now if they get unhooked, and a gen procs before they get a key, they're death hook. If two gens pop at once, or one after another, they instantly are death hook, because they can only hold one key. Once they're death hook, they ignore the trap the rest of the match.

Does pig get entity progress and points when it partially opens? If not then this power is utter garbage, since it costs the pig BP and emblem progress. If it does give them free bp and emblem progress then it might be a little too powerful.

If traps can't be removed until all the gens are done, it seems as though a pig with noed and blood warden would be insane. No one would have time to look for your noed totem, no one would want to spend time opening a gate, and you'd know where everyone is going to be, since everyone is guaranteed to be going for the boxes. Having that delay, plus noed, plus bloodwarden as a fall back seems like you'd have to be really bad to not get a 3k or 4k.

Mercury

@Abyssionknight said:
So I down someone, trap them, hook them, and now if they get unhooked, and a gen procs before they get a key, they're death hook. If two gens pop at once, or one after another, they instantly are death hook, because they can only hold one key. Once they're death hook, they ignore the trap the rest of the match.

Does pig get entity progress and points when it partially opens? If not then this power is utter garbage, since it costs the pig BP and emblem progress. If it does give them free bp and emblem progress then it might be a little too powerful.

If traps can't be removed until all the gens are done, it seems as though a pig with noed and blood warden would be insane. No one would have time to look for your noed totem, no one would want to spend time opening a gate, and you'd know where everyone is going to be, since everyone is guaranteed to be going for the boxes. Having that delay, plus noed, plus bloodwarden as a fall back seems like you'd have to be really bad to not get a 3k or 4k.

Quite a few points. Like I said in the original post. They wouldn't be deadly, if played accordingly. Survivors can see a key icon in the status bar, once they found it in a box. Anything after that is the fault of the other Survivors.

Yes, the Pig would gain 500 for the 'hook' and the 200 for reaching the next phase. Why would it granting BP or Emblem progress be too powerful? Elaborate, if possible.

Yes, the end game would be powerful, if she managed to get a trap on you. NOED, Bloodwarden all end game perks would be powerful, of course. But each has their counter. Like NOED, which you can comepletely prevent from activating in the first place... Bloodwarden- as you mentioned Survivors would be looking through boxes instead of trying to open doors, so I don't know how this one would be any different than a normal game.

Lastly, let's not forget there is only one Killer and at least four to five boxes. She can only check one at a time, so I don't see how this is a problem either.

PhantomMask20763

As a pig main these changes sound amazing!!! They would definently bring more variety into the game and her character. I don't think she would be that much of a pain to go up against though. This would definently bring in some fear to one of my favorite killers. One question though does this mean survivors can only die by the bear trap during end game? 

Mercury

@PhantomMask20763 said:
As a pig main these changes sound amazing!!! They would definently bring more variety into the game and her character. I don't think she would be that much of a pain to go up against though. This would definently bring in some fear to one of my favorite killers. One question though does this mean survivors can only die by the bear trap during end game? 

I'm glad you like the suggestions. And about the death by a RBT- I don't think I can purely judge this all by myself. I would like to see how it plays out during a ptb or something. We could judge afterwards. We could try out both cases, where the RBT snaps shut if they are on their death hook- or where they are simply put into the dying state and the RBT snap only hapens when the end game timer runs out. I would be fine with either of them. ^^

Mesme

So I kinda main the Pig and I'm not trying to be that guy who's like "Oh pro here" I'm not and well I had this idea but what if the boxes were in the basement? Because the issue I have with the pig is her traps they are too easy to take off so maybe the locations should be more risky? if not perhaps they should have attempts like if you guess the wrong box or fail the skill check it may shorten the timer if not kill you out right?

I've seen the SAW movies and the traps aren't this lenient and so I feel if we can address this maybe the pig would be better? Also I thought about this aswell umm but what if a survivor had to be at full health to do a box? Like isn't the box hurting the survivor and if so shouldn't it put them in injured state and dying if they attempted the box in injured state? IDK just some ideas...

Mercury

@Mesme said:
So I kinda main the Pig and I'm not trying to be that guy who's like "Oh pro here" I'm not and well I had this idea but what if the boxes were in the basement? Because the issue I have with the pig is her traps they are too easy to take off so maybe the locations should be more risky? if not perhaps they should have attempts like if you guess the wrong box or fail the skill check it may shorten the timer if not kill you out right?

I've seen the SAW movies and the traps aren't this lenient and so I feel if we can address this maybe the pig would be better? Also I thought about this aswell umm but what if a survivor had to be at full health to do a box? Like isn't the box hurting the survivor and if so shouldn't it put them in injured state and dying if they attempted the box in injured state? IDK just some ideas...

Having all the boxes in one place could quickly lead to problems though, either by the Pig or others blocking the basement stairs or simply that it would be way too easy to camp the boxes. I really wouldn't enjoy instant death by guessing wrong on the boxes either. To me RNG(random chance) isn't fun at all.

About the full health to do a box- I don't know. You are pressured for time already, this truly could end fatally. A little rough for something that is meant to stall for time. It would also be impossible to ever get a trap off, if you don't have teammates or any form of self-heal.

Mesme

@Mercury said:

@Mesme said:
So I kinda main the Pig and I'm not trying to be that guy who's like "Oh pro here" I'm not and well I had this idea but what if the boxes were in the basement? Because the issue I have with the pig is her traps they are too easy to take off so maybe the locations should be more risky? if not perhaps they should have attempts like if you guess the wrong box or fail the skill check it may shorten the timer if not kill you out right?

I've seen the SAW movies and the traps aren't this lenient and so I feel if we can address this maybe the pig would be better? Also I thought about this aswell umm but what if a survivor had to be at full health to do a box? Like isn't the box hurting the survivor and if so shouldn't it put them in injured state and dying if they attempted the box in injured state? IDK just some ideas...

Having all the boxes in one place could quickly lead to problems though, either by the Pig or others blocking the basement stairs or simply that it would be way too easy to camp the boxes. I really wouldn't enjoy instant death by guessing wrong on the boxes either. To me RNG(random chance) isn't fun at all.

About the full health to do a box- I don't know. You are pressured for time already, this truly could end fatally. A little rough for something that is meant to stall for time. It would also be impossible to ever get a trap off, if you don't have teammates or any form of self-heal.

Understandable again just some ideas.