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Spirit kills= devs nerf
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killers don't have fun about 4 man SWFS with keys, and full co-ordination making the killers game a living hell, that isn't fun yet that has not been changed yet..... spirit is one of the only killers left after the nurse changes that can stand up to those SWF's afterwards, just looking at the nurse changes you have not given confidence to the community that you can change spirit to still be as strong as she is but "more fun for survivor" where fun for the survivor atm is bullying the killer
you said it yourself that it is not that spirit it to strong but just "not fun to play against" some people find that "not fun" factor as being UNABLE to bully the killer, and that for a change the KILLER has control of the game instead of the survivors which the killer SHOULD have control.
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@AkiTheKitten Trapper just needs all of his traps on spawn and he'd be good
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Still takes too long to set up. Setting time should be decreased heavily so he gets some more ways to shut down chases faster
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I could see him just resetting traps on the ground that are disarmed, that'd be faster I guess.
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What you've just done is not explain why The Spirit shouldn't be changed, but rather list what else you'd like to see changed. I agree with what you've said, but not changing one thing because some other thing exists is how nothing gets done. These things take time, and like the recent instaheal changes, we'd like to revisit a lot of these things as soon as we've gotten the chance.
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I play against what he described daily, sometimes all day, it's not fun because the game is mabye 5 minutes if your lucky, or if you bring ruin but they either work through it or spawn on it.
It's not fun for other reasons besides the time the game lasts,
1.they usually bring items, toolboxes and keys, which make the game even shorter.
2. They all have second chance perks so if they mess up they have 4 chances while you as killer if you play perfectly still lose.
3. They think killers that can deal with that are overpowered, after having a 4 minute game the killer gets fed up with trying to use something fun or different. So they play spirit and still lose gens but have a chance to win through everything they had in their favor.
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My point was they aren't just listening to one side. They have started to change maps. As for swf, what would you like them to do? Short of removing it there's not alot of options. I personally would like to see the low and mid tier killers buffed. And they might be working on that internally. I would agree there is alot that needs work. But I want them to do it properly. Knee jerk reactions from the devs have always been bad.
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no I stated that you are looking at changing spirit because of the "unfun" part about her that survivors complain about, NOT because of her being TO STRONG, like I said in my post, some survivors find spirit not fun BECAUSE they can't bully her like many other killers in the game. there are few posts about her being "OP and broken/to powerful" many of the threads are the "unfun" part of spirit. but like I said it is because spirit is in control of the game, not the survivors for once. if you change spirit similar to how you changed nurse then a lot of the killer base will either de rank or stop playing killer in red ranks. and 4 man SWF co-ordianated teams will be insta escapes for them. you will be changing the 1 solution to the problem of 4 man SWF without dealing with that. it will have a domino effect you have not accounted for I bet you.
i am saying to not nerf spirit because of her "unfun factor" because a lot of this "unfun factor" that people complain about is that spirit is actually balanced, unlike most of the list of killers, where this leads to the SPIRIT being in control, not the survivors. and survivors are not used to that so they think it is wrong, in a 4v1 game mode that the 4 should be in control not the 1.
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Any word on how the devs intend to make her more fun to play for killers?
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look to the nurse changes and you will see they don't intend to, just make it even easier for survivors to escape and make there to be no counter to 4 man SWF other than just never letting them get a game by Dcing
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Friend, they changed one map (and even that map has a generous number of safe pallets and strong loops).
There are still plenty of maps that need attention. What do you expect a Wraith to do against good survivors on Haddonfield?
As for SWF, they need to figure something out. It's common sense that four people with voice comms are much more efficient than solo players. The devs could tack on a repair and healing speed debuff for the time being. That would bring their efficiency closer to solo players.
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Funniest bs comment I have seen yet.
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WHERE WAS THIS WHEN DISCUSSING THE NURSE CHANGES???
If anyone on the team responsible for this actually played Nurse at anywhere past yellow ranks they would KNOW these changes are not FUN or healthy.
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I'm not having fun against Trapper. Can we make it so that he only has one bear trap and it's a guaranteed escape?
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Yes. I said they have started. As in they've begun to try to address it. Not they finished. If you're expecting me to argue Haddonfield is fine you'll be disappointed. I agree various maps need attention. I'd even suggest in the short term they start by blocking off problematic windows. That would help while they work towards larger changes.
What you've suggested for swf (I think I've seen suggested before) is about the only way I can see to combat their advantage. Maybe 15% penalty for 3 man swf. And 20% for a 4 man swf. I feel like two man doesn't really need a penalty. Though I suppose 10% would be okay.
I'd like to see small changes for the low and mid tier killers implemented with each chapter and mid chapter patch as well. Like let Trapper start with and be able to carry all his traps. I hope the start to try little things like that. Then continue to add them as needed.
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You said both sides? Nurse got slammed, all her addons changed, along with her base kit nerfed, she was made considerably harder and her addons made mostly useless with only a few good ones (same as before) her base kit is just weaker.
Stealth killers are immune to a few people that a few people used ooo and alert
Red instas dont work as well as before
Please explain how a basic qol chage and an addon change are on the level of a whole character.
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Dude it's a balancing act. You understand they are trying to balance around all skill levels. To ensure the most players possible enjoy the game as much as possible.
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Okay, it seems we have a decent amount of common ground.
But here's the kicker: Let's see how long it takes for the devs to implement fundamental change (if at all). Nurse has already received sweeping changes.
And notice some of the wording you used: "I'd like to see" and "I hope". Yeah, I hope the devs do the right thing too, but so far I haven't heard of any plans to address SWF, nor have I heard of any plans to make sweeping changes to map design.
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You missed the point of my post entirely.
"Fun" should not be the sole reason for nerfing a killer, because "fun" is entirely subjective. If certain survivor players got their way, I guarantee there would be very few killer players having "fun."
If a killer is getting 4k's too consistently, or there's something specifically broken about their power (*Legion*), that's one thing. That's not why survivors want Spirit changed.
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Coincidentally, she also happens to average three kills per game if not higher (with the target being two kills two escape). Fun is definitely a factor, but not the only thing that's considered. A game is meant to be fun though, advocating for not making the game fun is a hard sell.
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Appreciate the reply. I have fun playing as Spirit. I have fun playing against Spirit. She's my favorite killer in the game.
I just hope that you and the dev team consider all angles before doing the same thing to Spirit that you did to Legion.
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God forbid a killer in this game actually kills. Its not like she’s the easiest thing to learn. you put time into learning her = it pays off.
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For? I can guarantee that swfs in red ranks have games less than 5 minutes, fun right?
And as I've asked, do dcs count in those numbers? If its 3 a game does that include someone dcing and her getting 3?
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The term "fun" is not the word ... is it funny that a game lasts 4-5 minutes? While the survivors receive many points for repairing while the killer of that game has not fun? You call that fun, please answer me.
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Their lack of fun is rooted in the fact that they don’t know how to play against her and are losing. Part of the fun in video games is supposed to be learning and overcoming challenges. While I obviously can’t tell someone if they are having fun or not, I don’t think you can justify nerfs based on someone’s fun. Most people are babies and get mad anytime they lose.
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I mean with that logic Insta heals should come back old vac pallets should come back just because its not fun for you didnt mean it was not fun for someone else and hey you said it yourself you cant justify nerfs based on fun :)
Also thats the thing about that argument that can be flipped really quick.
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What platform are you on? What rank?
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Actually, my argument still holds up against that. Old instaheals required no mindgames or skill to use (unlike spirit who makes you guess) Instaheals being removed was a logical balancing change because there was actually no counter.
I also wouldn’t care if you did revert the change tbh.
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Don't you realize by now that this will go on forever and people will keep doing what they do now? We have people on the forum who do have fun playing against the spirit, many said it. Are you disregarding those people? Sorry the impression people get right now is, claim something, doesn't even have to be about balance so just say it isn't fun, find enough people that back you up on that ######### and bhvr will cave in.
Just because bad survivors say noed is not fun and is bad, hex ruin is bad or etc doesn't mean that you should totally change that because they are unable to deal with situations that arise. Sorry if that is how you will continue to develop the game you will end at nothing. Because fun is subjective and people will always find something that isn't fun for them.
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I don't want her nerfed. I want her counterable. Liek an simple indicator she is in phase. That would make her a lot more balanced.
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So the goal is to make the killer perform........worse? should a killer not....kill?? Im heavily confused by the logic behind punishing killers for doing well.
Have you noticed nobody complains about the other killers survivors can loop & bully? Only spirit/nurse? Why do you think that may be? hmm...
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And your surprised that there is surv favoritism all they have to do is claim a killer is unfun and they will nerf them down to d tier
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Two kill/escape is a poor metric to go by frankly. How many times have we seen four survivors complete all five gens to throw it all away trying to save one survivor? Another would be a long game where the killer is able to kill all four but 3/4 survivors pip.
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Skill is not guessing that would be a coin flip situation skill is outplaying the other guessing is not skill.
Insta heals actually did have a counter franklins you cant insta without the med kit :)
Honestly i feel you missed my point though you said you cant nerf based off fun and the devs did indeed take vac pallets away because killers felt they were unfun they did the same to insta heals because killer said they were not fun.
Point being when you say you cant nerf based on fun then that means killers cant complain about Haddionfield Insta heals Vac Pallets old Selfcare Old BT Old DS basically i took what you said flipped it and applied it to all the things killers asked for changes based on their fun.
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The lack of reading comprehension that goes on in this forum truly leaves me flabbergasted. Ya’ll have asked Peanits the same question 12 different ways, but can’t understand simple answers. What he’s saying isn’t even complex. FLOORED.
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If you can’t agree that predicting other people isn’t skillful, then there is nothing else to say.
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I mean it comes down to a coin flip towards higher ranks you can outplay someone by guessing but its not a skill again its a simple coin flip for example running 1 way and then going the other way thats not a skill that just hoping the survivor falls for it thats not skillful my dude.
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That argument isn't even comparable, vacuums would activate no matter what, I'd did not matter who or what it would work and would save you. If spirits the same thing then anyone playing her would see you and your dead. See the flaw in that? People escape spirit, but no one could stop a vacuum, also "bring Franklins" is the same as "bring iron will".
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Well I hardly wield the influence to effect changes.
I got your point. And yes, fun by itself can't be the sole reason. But that's not the root of the issue with Spirit. The root is counter play is very limited. There's a handful of tricks you can try. And most good Spirit players won't fall for them. I don't think most survivors mind dying. They mind feeling like there's nothing they can do. While that's not exactly true with Spirit. It's not that far off either.
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She has counterplay. The thing that survivors don't like about her is the fact that you can't sit at a pallet and press spacebar to win like you can with every other killer.
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I said it was limited. Not nonexistent.
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Please stop with the "Bad spirits" argument, its the same as me saying "noob3 got mindgamed? BAD SURVIVOR" the person in question isnt important, the point is the killer in that case or survivor vs the spirit made a good play and mindgamed the other to survive.
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I didn't say anything about bad Spirits. But let me rephrase. A good killer is less likely to fall for a trick then a bad one. Falling for a mind game doesn't make you a bad player on either side. But a good player is less likely to fall for it.
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One? You say that like theres a limited amount of counters, spirit number wise without a player can be countered by literally anything you can think, slow vaults from fast vaulting, pallet reverse etc etc, there is no set counter or set way to win.
You have to make it up as you go, it's not a guess a more reasonable comparison would be poker, you can play it safe and mabye escape by going for low risk plays that might let you escape but are still pretty safe. Or you can go all in, you vault or run into her because you dont think shes bluffing, this can win or lose games. You can claim she has the advantage and she does, if your injured hence why you have to go as long as possible not being injured, or have Iron will if you want not counter her but to help you in countering her.
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Well then, are you guys able to make her fun to play against without completely gutting her, like you did with Legion?
I believe that's the million dollars question.
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There is counterplay, watch recent dbd tournament hosted by marth, lots of spirit killers and survivor who play against them.
Predicting someone is a skill. Unfortunately people here cry because they are unable to do anything. To me it isn't related to skill to memorize a map and run the safest route and just watch when the killer gets close so you drop a pallet.
Sorry when to you 50/50's are coinflips, maybe checkout 2017 twt losers finals and grand finals. In losers a guy that dominated the scene for i think 3 straight years was decimated, forced 50/50s and being read like a book. Same happened in grand finals to his team mate. But yes it had nothing to do with skill, it was just coin flips who surprisingly landed on that guys side almost everytime and made the entire audience lose their f* minds.
You should also watch the recent dbd tournament hosted by marth, counterplay does exist and it is skill based.
You all just go the ez pz route because anything more to the game then running the same maps, same ways is considered unfun, thus eliminate everything that brings any kind of variety, not even being bothered to lie in the process.
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Nobody likes losing, I'm pretty sure there is correlation between winning a match and fun. Winning is fun. Losing is not. Spirit is difficult to beat, therefore she wins a lot so survivors don't have fun playing against her because they lose against her more than other killers. Those are global statistics. they are the average. the average player isn't exactly the best player. They are... just average. for that reason, I think 2 kills 2 escapes is good sign of under performing killer because the average player can beat them. It means better player can beat the killer consistently. I think it should aim for 3 kills and 1 escape and I think escaping killer should be difficult challenge to overcome. She is one of two killers that makes the game feel like horror game. Tracking, prediction and Intuition are skills. I think the coin-flip thing is somewhat of exaggeration for her. her power has a cooldown and she is 110% movement speed killer. she is a fair killer at the end of the day. maybe one day other killers will share her statistics.
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Is this why nurse was screwed over? "fun" its a subjective thing your game isn't a horror game if you nerf every killer that can actually kill. So if the killer is no longer fun aka nurse because of changes no one asked for how is that "fun" for people who play killer who is next in line Huntress?
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