So Spirit is getting nerfed
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If that were the case, seems to me it makes more sense to bring other killers to her level, not try to keep 80% of your killers in mediocrity.
Also lets be clear, is it possible to have a chance with other killers at high ranks, sure, but its a lot less likely they will succeed with those odds and having to stress so much as killer in high ranks can be very discouraging as people play games to try to relax opposed to stressing. When ive mentioned this to other people they will respond with "Well its more fun to take on the challenge with a killer thats not op".....well then if were gonna take it there, why not just take on the challenge of the current spirit? shrug I dont know, i just cant get behind the idea that nerfing her instead of buffing everyone else
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Just nerf school outfit. then lol change it so you can see that stuff, I don’t look at glass or stance switch or none that. But her hair sticking up is 100% consistent. Idk if it’s a graphics thing on console but every time I’m at a pallet battle against a spirit I glue my eyes on her hair and it always works until she breaks pallets, only time I die by spirit if I’m in a dead zone or if I’m caught beginning of game because of unknown prayer beads. She’s in a good place she’s not the most fun but she’s more fun than unfun. I also hardly use OP perks I usually will only use BT or DS not both with plunderers head on and probably prove thyself or unbreakable. Plus spirit is played so much on ps4 at least.
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I just want Prayer Beads to have Moderately/Tremendously Decreased movement speed when using her power, thats all :(
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I made a video too. It's an interesting situation to a person such as myself who predicts rather than reacts.
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I counter her regularly in purple-red ranks but ok
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Everything you mentioned on the video I already do, and at first, I also thought Spirit was fine because you can predict her.
However, that doesn't work against the best Spirits, you can't out-predict her when she has better tools to make better predictions than you.
Here's what survivors have:
- Spirit's previous behavior
- Phase cool-down
- Foot steps
- (Outside TR) Phase warning
Here's what Spirit has:
- Faking
- Scratch marks
- Blood trails
- Grunts of pain
- Grass movement
- Regular breathing
- Foot steps
Like I said, she has a lot more tools to make better predictions than the survivor does. Don't get me wrong, I love strong killers a lot, but in my opinion, they should have fair counterplay.
Survivors need an equal amount of tools to predict the Spirit for me to consider her fair for both sides.
Also, good Spirits change up their gameplay as the game plays out so the survivor can't use her previous behaviors to make an accurate prediction.
Therefore, the survivors actually have:
Spirit's previous behavior- Phase cool-down
- Foot steps
- (Outside TR) Phase warning
I'm willing to discuss this with you since I know you make very great point, and can do that in a civilized manner! ??
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So can you prove it to me so ill shut up?
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I seen your video, and suggested it to you on YouTube and on the forums.
What if Spirit left blue scratch marks behind her while she phases? To compensate, they could decrease her cool-down or increase her phase movement speed. ??
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Depends, I play on PS4 and I don't know if you actually play Spirit at those ranks
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Except Spirit is able to counter 4 man swf groups that are optimal, Billy isn't even that good against them. That's one reason why Nurse and spirit were popular in red ranks. Now that Nurse is nerfed, people will play spirit as a result to fight these types of swf.
Also if that's the case, doesn't that mean that maybe, just maybe that most Killers aren't the power role in this game? Maybe you should tell BHVR to stop nerfing High tier killers and mid tier killers and instead buff mid-tier and low-tier killers to match killers like Billy.
Okay but from what we know they will nerf Doc. They never stated they will buff him, they stated they will "make him more fun to play against", which as seen by the Legion nerf, and Nurse nerf, will mostly likely result in the Doc getting nerfed.
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Terrible idea, make her phase unable to be used for mindgames
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Spirit leaving blue scratch marks is a bad idea. It gives survivors too much information.
A better way to balance spirit would be: to remove collusion when she's phasing, either show survivors her hands when she switches to phasing or have her hair raise up to show she's phasing, and change prayer beads to iridescent rank or remove it.
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Scratch marks are delayed, remember? It just helps the survivor know if she's phasing, and a hint to where she's at.
Spirit could also use her own scratch marks to go back. :)
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well. they keep nerfing. no one will play killer. but hey "high five devs" you gave "survivors fun" lol. while killing your playerbase. il laugh when it happens just from the sidelines
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Truly amazing comment btw lmao. Especially that last sentence.
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Because Survive With Friends groups "Just want to have fun" playing the game.
I mean they are 4 players and killer is just 1. Who do you think they'd rather listen to?
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Pretty good video. I was honestly more on giving Spirit minor nerfs like having her phase make the glass cracking sound but you did remind me why I like going against Spirit as a Survivor.
Out of every killer she is probably the only one who I personally actually fear. In a horror game there is a killer I am actually afraid of, who knew? And I really like that. I know when I go up against her I shouldn't act how I normally would as a Survivor but I already don't anyways.
I play stealthy when I need to, go on routes that some survivors might think is absolutely bonkers and insane and play in a way that will most likely just end up with me being the only one to escape.
With that said, even though you've convinced me that she is a different kind of killer, not one to be chased around with the usual tactics, I can't say it's 100% fair that the survivors can give her stuff to react to. Like their breathing, scratch marks and grunting when injured. While yes, I agree that the Spirit is fun and great to play against. I also have to disagree that she's a killer that requires you to just predict when she can react to what you do.
I don't want her to have things like Scratch Marks like NMCKE is proposing. Even with the decreased cooldown and increased phase movement that would kill her. Survivors need to react to the Spirit the same way she reacts to them. By sound and purely by sound.
Sure she still requires a little bit of prediction from both sides, but Spirit has the advantage of sound while the survivors don't. And no I'm not trying to argue a 1v1 scenario, I am arguing it under a 4v1 scenario. If she can react to Survivors then they should be able to do the same. Not as effectively, but still enough for them to accurately guess where she is without exactly knowing where she is. She is powerful, and I want her to stay powerful. But I also want to give survivors that little bit of chance they have to go against her. All 4 of them. Not just 1. Because this game shouldn't revolve around one survivor being able to go up against the killer.
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Sorry I can't help myself here.
Explain why it is important to know exactly when she is or is not using her power?
Because the smart thing to do is to play as if she is both standing still AND using her power. If you are trying to figure which she is doing you already lost. But if you assume she is doing both simultaneously then you can pick the counter options which beat both (or at least mitigate the advantages of both) and therefore you will win the chase more often.
I'm starting to think this is the core issue people have with Spirit. They look at it as an either/or scenario instead of a both/and scenario. This is why so many survivors end up doing the very very VERY stupid move of slow vaulting the pallet into her face. If you don't do that, instead walk away from the husk until you break LOS then start running, you pretty much avoid any option she has where she was indeed standing there. And if she was you now force her to phase walk (or better follow you normally) which, due to the lack of initial scratch marks, makes you harder to track. You will gain distance on her and make it to a safer position. And if she was phase walking to begin with, and you walked away there is a good chance she will waste at least some time trying to track you by the loop, and by the time she picks up your scent again you have enough distance where she can't reach you with the rest of phase walk.
And yes there will be some spots in the game where you don't have any good options so you have to just take a risk, but I don't see how this is different from facing other killers where you are in a bad position. So please don't come back at me with some super specific scenario where the killer obviously has the advantage because that's not specific to Spirit.
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It is delayed but you still know where she is at and whether or not she is phasing.
A part of why Spirit can be actually scary if her making the survivors require to accurately predict whether or not she is phasing. Which is why I want her to have some telltales of whens he's using her phase. Like the glass cracking she hears but survivors don't. Or a slightly directional to omni directional phasing sound. Anything that isn't too obvious but enough for a survivor who pays attention to play around.
Scratch marks just breaks that.
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Nope, not you. It’s the guy he challenged. And what do you know, he plays “PS4”. Totally called it. Yet another person with all the counters who bails from playing with Scott to prove it. You would think everyone plays on PS4...hilarious. You have to admit it’s a little suspicious that everyone with Spirit counters, that I’ve seen at least, challenged to play KYF with Scott, claims they don’t play PC. I mean....come on.
PC players with Spirit counters...step up and take on his challenge. You can’t all be on console!
Post edited by Karl_Childers on2 -
Are you kidding? Killer mains have been crying about Adrenaline since forever. And here you are acting like a nerf to Adrenaline would be nothing lmao.
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Am I the only killer that doesnt have an issue with Adrenaline? It only really benefits a maximum of one survivor at most - the one being chased when the gen pops. Even then thats entirely dependent on the survivor making it to the endgame. I'm very much okay with survivors wasting a perk slot in the hopes of making it that far >.<
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It’s pretty rare, at least on forums. My point really is that if Adrenaline were tossed in the trash, it would be a very big deal. That can’t be argued. Mind that this is a complete guess of mine to begin with, I just happen to think that if Spirit is nerfed, Adrenaline will be gutted. Just as we saw instaheals nerfed with Nurse. The timing wasn’t just a coincidence. They will take something from both sides. If not Adrenaline, I’m not sure what else it could be. I think the writing on the wall is Adrenaline though since it could definitely tie in with the instaheal change. We’ll see. But seriously no way they nerf Spirit and dont “give something back” to calm the storm.
Post edited by Karl_Childers on0 -
Fair, it's a solid tip. I don't feel like that tip itself is enough to 'counter' her though. Especially with how hard it is to tell when it happens. I wasn't sure if you if you play on console or not, but the majority of PC players play on low detail, which makes it extremely hard to pick up on any visual spirit signal, you can really only go off of audio.
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I like your perspective on the subject?.
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Notice how none of these people who can "counter" her haven't taken ScottJund up on his offer to play KYF vs him.
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It is hard to take his offer when one of you would have to buy the game on another platform.
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Nerf all the killers. The one who doesn't have counterplay which mean ALL of them!!! They are unfun and boring to play against. I faced the Huntress yesterday and she throw a hatchet on me when I was doing my gen. What I supossed to do? Where's MY information when she's throwing hatchets from 1000000 miles away? UNFUN. BORING TO PLAY AGAINST. NEEDS A COUNTERPLAY.
Please OhTofu and ScottJund, make more videos! Save this game of overperforming killers 😭😭🙏🙏🙏
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It's more like the other killers are worse off against swf and experienced survivors and if they were buffed up to the power level of spirit she wouldn't be a problem since you wouldn't see her as much since more killers are viable
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Why were you swinging so early is it a mindgame I don't know about?
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Your Schrödingers Spirit explanation is quite good.
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Spirit has no counterplay, that’s why she needs to be nerfed
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Not sure if sarcasm ?
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SWF and map design are the big issues killer mains have. Adrenaline is much less significant than those problems.
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For once it's not ? Its a rather good explanation on how survivors should treat spirit:
"Take evasive action as if she was phasing but dont go near the husk incase she's faking" -
Well, there might be people calling this crap because "it doesnt work all the time"...
But these are the people who "want ez loops and escapes all killers"
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I read your comment and something proves my point — the survivor forced to assume both because the Spirit offers no feedback to the survivor. The survivor can't rule out either of her options because they just don't know, while the Spirit knows everything; that's a guessing game, not a mind game. You can't out-predict your opponent when they have more tools to pinpoint you.
Therefore, the only counter play is to assume the Spirit is doing both. However, if she was faking it, she would just watch you walk out of LoS then phase or walk to where she thinks you're at. She will see the scratch marks (in your scenario, you said: Walk out of LoS and run) and that's it basically, you're not losing her unless you have a pallet or a vault.
Me and @GrootDude was thinking about giving Spirit the undetectable status effect for a nerf (and will give the survivor more feedback for counter). ?
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Ok had to make sure LOL
Thanks for the support.
And no it doesn't work all the time, but it works enough to be a valid counter option. It mostly depends on the situation and where you can go to extend the chase.
Although I will say I almost NEVER fall for the stand still trick when I do this. It honestly baffles me people fall for this trick at all, but it's precisely because they over think the situation. It's really not that complicated.
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"The survivor can't rule out either of her options because they just don't know, while the Spirit knows everything"
No she doesn't know everything. She can't see you and scratch marks take a second or two to appear. You can easily walk away from the loop and she will waste enough of her power that she won't be able to catch up to you by the time she realizes you left.
"However, if she was faking it, she would just watch you walk out of LoS then phase or walk to where she thinks you're at."
If she was faking and decides to go the direction she saw you go, it takes almost 3 seconds to activate her power, and she is already way behind you. This means you have a significant head start to reach another safe spot, she probably won't even be able to fully catch up to you. And if you ran into a structure you can use that to hide, which now she has even less information to go by.
The way you beat Spirit is by making her waste her power and chase you at 110 speed. If you can do this consistently you waste a LOT of her time.
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When they say their going to "look at a killer" they actually mean their going to nerf the killer into the ground
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I play with a vision handicap ;)
In quick motions things blur together and sometimes I see things that aren't there or misjudge distance.
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In addition, there's no way to determine whether it was player skill or just the spirit that determined the outcome of a match.
Finding a survivor that has equal skill in survivor as SJ has in killer is a difficult task by itself.
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I'm a rank 1 survivor and killer — through I haven't been playing a lot recently so I'm not this season.
I also play Spirit sometimes when I wanna relax! ??
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I'm not calling anyone out in particular. I'm just saying that in regards to scott's challenge, the person who takes it up should have a similar skill level in survivor compared to scott's skill level in spirit for the test to be relevant.
Also, I've always said that rank doesn't accurately measure player skill so rank is a nonfactor to me when talking about skill.
I look forward to the day when the ranking system can measure player skill.
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Agree. God tier Scott going up against average players will not prove anything. He needs to test this against 4 survivors that match his skill level.
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Not only that, but they would also need to buy the perks and packs. It's still basically a waste of money for the average person, to just prove a point.
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Well the sad part is that you are right, they said this about spirit, and they are saying this to the Doc, "we want to adjust the Doc, so he's more fun to play against". Doc is one of the killers that is next to get Legioned, and drop to F tier like legion.
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The problem is everyone that has gotten to that skill level is knowledgable enough about the game to know that Spirit counters are mostly luck if no perks are involved, so they don't even want to waste time testing it. I can't think of a single notable excellent survivor player that doesn't think Spirit's counterplay is mostly just guessing correctly.
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Crybabies win again. Soon every killer will be nerfed
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Nope. Should I care at all?
He could be top 1 Killer, doesn't mean he isn't wrong.
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Guessing isn’t luck. Predict what the Spirit is going to do and outplay her.
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