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Spirit is the line in the sand..
We are at a point in this game where we were looking at some true quality changes being made to the game..but these exciting developments have been overshadowed by the seemingly lack of foresight into how certain changes have not been taken well by the community.
Nobody really minded the nurses addons getting a pass..because..they were too much..and better nurse players didnt rely on them..but then the devs held back information on their true plan until the day before the ptb..it was low..it felt like they had been intentionally lying because they knew what the reaction would be..is this their reasoning ? Who knows? But the result has not sat well with the community at all because it was too much..it feels aweful..and increases nurses difficulty while considerably maximizing her capability which was supposed to be her reward for the stress and effort involved.
Now we are at the real line in the sand..spirit is next..a killer whom is loved by many and hated by others for reasons that vary from her being "unfun" to her being "skilless"..but spirit isnt just another killer in the rister..she and nurse are the only killers considered viable enough at present to fight on equal footing to well equipped teams. And the fact both are being targeted around the same time despite the fact that survivors have a boost of some kind coming their way feels rushed, one sided, and will likely result in her either being weak..or maybe still strong but very stressful and not fun to play much like nurse is presently.
All of this is merely adding to the belief the devs are not bipartisan as they should be..because they make plenty of promises to review the killers and "update" them..but no promises of improvement to underperforming ones while the best ones get cut down with no regard for what the ones playing them have to say or how they feel..This I believe will only end badly..unless we can come to a consensus and we can start feeling like equals in the devs eyes. That is all
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Spirit will get her adjustments. The wrong decisions were already made.
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at this point, i came to conclusion the devs only care about the money you spent on rift and shop.
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There is still time to take a stance and give better solutions
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Let us hope your wrong
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They are not.
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Hopefully your right. The nurse rework made me think the devs could mess up that one too. I mean they annouced the base nerf right before PTB.
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I feel they should tone down the cool down or at least revert the cooldown addon nerf..they should be trying to compromise, not just pander
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They tuned her down and i don't feel like they gonna do anything about her in near future. I really hope for a good Billy, Doctor and Bubba addon/base power change. Maybe they will be more fun in the future.
But never forget: Sally is bae!
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If they touch Billy's power he will perish..hes already held in less regard than before
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I sadly think it's a possibility. My poor "Become the Hillbilly" - series.
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i also hope that i'm wrong...
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The bean counters care about this. The devs care about it to the extent that it continues to fund their development. They don't sit around in smoke-filled meeting rooms, with steepled fingers, cackling about how they're going to nerf everything and make everyone unhappy. That's not how you get players excited and compel them to spend money on your cosmetics. Occam's razor says the truth is probably much simpler, and I think it's down to... I dunno, let's call them "irresponsible response times."
Now, I should point out that I'm a Spirit player. I enjoy her kit, I do well with her, and I have sunk significant time and BP into her (she is one of only two killers that I have every perk on). I instinctively don't want to see her nerfed or changed because she's my character, but I also understand a lot of the arguments in favor of giving her more clear and less coin-flippy counterplay.
The problem is that the devs sit on their hands with this stuff, and by the time they address it, it's been an institutionalized problem for months. Spirit came out in, what, September 2018? So she's been this way for the last 14 months, and now they're putting the screws to her. It seems arbitrary that they could let something so problematic go on for this long, and it's only now suddenly a code red alarm.
So, because of this, it then comes across really reactionary to the player base. Reactionary to what, though? I dunno, she's suddenly "overperforming." The cynical view would be that the devs could just come out and say this at any time, to justify their actions in the wake of seeing consistent complaint threads about this killer. It never looks like there's much good faith going on with how these changes get rolled out, because there's no transparency to go along with it.
Maybe if Behaviour released monthly statistics about character usage rates, kill/survival percentages, item usage, etc. etc., these would be easier pills to swallow, because we would be able to see trends of activity and player behaviors. Plus, those kinds of stats would just be a REALLY cool thing to have.
But instead, all we have to go off of is that "Spirit is overperforming." That's why everyone is so frustrated with whatever is coming.
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Because itll be like nurse..or like legion..watered down and weak..or strong but so stressful and with a mediocre payoff
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You're missing my point, which is that much of the frustration is handcuffed to the timeline that is in play here. Spirit has been allowed to exist this way for 14 months, so why was she not "overperforming" before? Nurse was in the same boat (and hats off to @ArecBalrin for repeatedly articulating that about Nurse way better than I can here about Spirit), and we're seeing how that is now playing out.
The particular what of the Spirit nerfs is not the troubling thing here. It's how, when, and why the incoming nerfs got ran up the flagpole.
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When I see killer mains (and not.saying you are one) write things like,
"considered viable enough at present to fight on equal footing to well equipped teams"
I feel like they typically mean "able to get me a 4k against the best survivors". Ideally, if the best killer player vs 4 of the best survivors shouldn't the result be a 2k? i.e. a draw. I feel a lot of people that don't play both sides don't know what balance actually is...
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Only if both sides play equally every step of the way..but that is not reality..by that logic it should be the killer gets a kill or two max when they were simply played well against..and 4k if they played very well..because saying a killer should get capped on two kills on equal footing means they are statistically weaker than the opposition..my point is..it should be able to swing either way..not just hard cap on performance
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Oh no I understood you perfectly , however I doubt they've had long term plans for the spirit..until very recently she was everyone's favorite..but since nurse got slammed, why not her? Appearances aside they are targeting the best killers before bringing survivors up..between you and me I feel that is stupid because itll just stack on itself and turn a change from a small downgrade to a massive handicapping
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How would a draw make them statistically weaker? By definition it makes it an even score
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Because if two people at most go down that implies that's all that's needed to match the killers strength, leaving two more to boost capability even higher ..on top of that a killer can only be one place at a time while survivors can pressure the whole map at once essentially..a lot of fine details
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Killers have no stance, the Devs didn't even look at the feedback from the Legion and Nurse changes during the PTB.
What makes you think that they will listen this time?
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Sadly the Devs released a statement early 2019 that they will change Billy's adds on along with Nurse's add ons. We have already seen what they did to Nurse using the Add on changing excuse, and then they released a statement that they will tweak her power.
I bet they will give Billy the same form of treatment. Enjoy Billy while he lasts, because the Devs track record on "slight" changes or making killers "fun" on Killers usually results in them getting nerfed.
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have fun playing with dull m1 killers after the devs nerfed everything what needed skill and was fun. cant wait.
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The alternative is to sit here and do nothing..much better results
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I never said Killers should sit and do nothing, but current Killers have no stance.
For killers to make a stance, it would require killers to either boycott playing the game, review bomb or DC just as much or more than survivors, or something similar in those forms.
Except 2/3 options are super scummy (review bombing and Dcing) and shouldn't be encouraged more.
The real non-scummy and much better alternative is really to just boycott playing the game, except I don't think many people will just not play the game for a day or two.
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Maybe..but they have surprised us before
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Sure, but it would need a coordinated effort or something to really piss killers off.
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Hm, guess tome will tell
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This is honestly getting ridiculous. You guys are acting like everyone shares the opinion that might seem popular in the forums. Let me tell you something, the average player does NOT even read the forums. You have no conception of the true common opinion. I know this doesn't hold any value anyway, but I know dozens of experienced people who all agreed on the nurse change and want a spirit change.
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I'm sure you do..now is there anything else ?
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I do not, but you need to stop acting like you do. I have never claimed I know the common opinion, but you do all the time.
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This is very untrue. Killers such as Hilbilly, Freddy, Huntress, hag, ghost face and Demogorgon can all beat an optimal team because they have map pressure and are capable of ending chase quickly if used correctly. Don't even get me started on add ons. I don't understand why killers say spirit and nurse are the only two because that is compelelty false.
Another thing is that you talk about buffing weak killers, but are you forgetting how they nerf insta heal? You understand how big of a role insta heal was compare to weak killers not winning, right?
Moreover your point about spirit being the only one is false. If anything, she can easily beat an optimal team from what the devs said.
"Coincidentally, she also happens to average three kills per game if not higher (with the target being two kills two escape). Fun is definitely a factor, but not the only thing that's considered. A game is meant to be fun though, advocating for not making the game fun is a hard sell"
So this just shows that many killers not only find her easier to use( otherwise she wouldn't have such a high win rate with so many killer users), but she also gives them an easy win and ruin the fun for other people. So all this optimal team excuses is worthless because it's obvious an optimal team can't withstand an optimal killers judging from her average win coming close to 4 kills now.
This was stated by Peanits at https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/102128/spirit-kills-devs-nerf/p3
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I only say what I observe..so before you come to my posts looking to cause trouble do take more than 2 seconds to think it over..you'll hear no more from me here
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According to the devs her kill rating isnt even the highest so that is quite a load of garbage..the real reason is obvious but the devs will deny it to save face , and those killers are decent but they do not have the tools at present to compete when faced with heavy opposition as much as I love them all..and based on countless matches both observed and played this is what I've come to realize
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Question for killer mains: out of every 10 games how many of them do you get a 4K? I play solo cue at rank 4. I’d say, close to 70% of the time the killers get a 4K. The remaining games the killer gets mostly 3 or 2k. Is anything less than a 4K not acceptable?
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Can't you just see how this whole "Don't nerf the spirit, it's gonna kill her!" is just getting out of hand?
People already assume way too much from these devs in the negative way and we don't need more negativity roaming in the forums, you should just accept that changes are completely needed from time to time to ensure a better experience in the (hopefully) near future.
And in my opinion, I highly doubt Billy will have any issues at all, I have plenty of optimism for any upcoming changes coming his way.
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Lol I had high Hope's too..but then..ghost face happened..and that's when I knew..they only listen to one thing..no I dint think her changes will make the game better..in fact I know they wont..because it's not what happens
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It will make the game healthier, nobody likes playing against something that cannot be seen at all, you can't counter the spirit regardless of what people say with Iron Will cause then you pop Stridor, you can't boil down a whole human brain to a single line of how to counter, you can't react to what someone else is thinking since the Spirit will always be able to read you standing still and you won't read her back, she will always adapt.
Might aswell take a really awkward route and still hit a survivor without any of it making sense, and still get away with it, that isn't fair play, it's straight up annoying and not fun or engaging to play against.
The changes need to happen.
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You play vs spirit the same way as she plays with you..iron will isnt a necessity though It is easily one of the better survivor perks..and very few spirits run stridor because it screws up your ability to gauge distance massively..not worth it..the changes will likely happen but it wont be healthier..because that emplies it's for the good of everyone which it isnt
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Implying everybody faces you every round is hardly a gauge for balancing
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but then the devs held back information on their true plan until the day before the ptb
They didn't. They said since the beginning that some adjustment to her power was necessary, they just didn't explain the details but we all knew something was coming.
she and nurse are the only killers considered viable enough at present to fight on equal footing to well equipped teams
Still they're (was in case of Nurse) used most of the times to stomp teams with no means to fight back. Not everyone is a commando swf.
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The devs plan to make everyone that way..and the devs dudnt ignore nurse despite very few performing well with her and that didnt stop them..so save me that line..and also..I was in dev streams and every mention to the nurse was "we are going over her addons" they didnt openly talk about a base power change..they had it under the table and barely if ever mentioned it openly and certainly not on any of the forums
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It wasn't "very few" to perform well, she had the highest kill count on high ranks according to devs.
And yes, they did mention it, at least in these forums, more than once.
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Actually no according to the devs themselves she wasnt over killing anyone and no her kill rating wasnt highest and the devs themselves said so..I'd recommend checking your facts next time..good day
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They literally said so during the last stream.
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Indeed..they said nurse wasnt changed due to kill rate
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Honestly the only adjustment I'd like to spirit is the beads and I wish her phasing sound would work properly. I've had cases of the heart beat drowning out her phasing and I feel that's unfair. If she decides to phase I want the sound to play over all other sounds. One of our only ways to get knowledge on what she's doing and it doesn't even work right. Don't get mad at me because I main spirit so I can say what I want about her thickness.
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unfortunately :(
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The no phase in tr is on purpose so she can mind game loops...
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How are you going to tell the devs what the kill rate of spirit is?
"Coincidentally, she also happens to average three kills per game if not higher (with the target being two kills two escape). Fun is definitely a factor, but not the only thing that's considered. A game is meant to be fun though, advocating for not making the game fun is a hard sell."
This honestly should not be a debate if Peanits is having to say that the killer average is coming close to 4k at average.
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She already has a mind game of you can't see her and her phasing isn't omnidirectional. There's the mind game is she coming from the left or right oh no she just stood there and I vaulted into her. Great mind game. It leaves almost no interaction.
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