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Spirit topic - counter-play - bridging views.
On one side of the spectrum I read the spirit has no counter-play because there’s nothing at the disposal for survivors to guess where the spirit is.
On the other side of the spectrum I read the spirit has counterplay, (then they state their case giving examples).
I’m going to pitch in and say both are in a way correct but simplify this:
The spirit does have counterplay but... Say if the survivor does mindgame the spirit, the spirit can get lucky and down the survivor anyway (all that gets said about survivors guessing/gambling etc - I think adversely falls on the spirit rather than the survivors - the survivors can make the right move but the spirit can make the wrong move - have no indication of where the survivor went and accidentally fall in their path).
Yes, you can fake your direction with scratchmarks, yes you can walk away, yes you can hide in plain view while she’s phasing the slow vault or w/e, yes you can call the spirits bluff at pallets etc (you’d typically guess this at a deadzone pallet or assess from the killer’s show of cunningness from earlier in the match that they may double-bluff at a non-deadzone pallet)... but ultimately this leads to either the spirit can luckily follow you and use collision to beat you or no chance escaping the spirit. If you’re the spirit that lost the survivor... simply pick one of 4 directions and you found the survivor again or often 2 directions if there’s a lack of cover.
So in a sense... both sides are right about the whole debate but the untold side is... the spirit has control to make undeserved comebacks... the spirit didn’t necessarily “read” the survivor... she’s just heavily forgiving in nature... if you lose any other killer they have to get really lucky to find you again... not spirit, she can just come out of phase and accidentally walk into you again since the survivors have no clue if they’ve lost her/what direction she went to break line of sight with her.
That’s pretty much what I conclude from the whole thing but the issues do boil down to the same thing... she lacks feedback to either know where she is (but that might kill her) or lacks feedback to get away from her after mindgaming her.
To me... her having collision with the survivor and Her lacking a kind of directional husk that’d tell you if she’s facing you (kinda like an audio spine-chill) is what the killer lacks from being balanced. Something alone these lines.
Comments
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You forgot to say: "In conclusion, NERF her"
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Collision removal would indeed remove the edge hits and force her to phase out before she reaches the survivor..but if her husk showed you her direction it would make her lose all pallet mind games and make escaping way too easy..you cant design killers for 1v1 because its 1v4...a single survivor should have 0 chance alone..because anything less and that creates the current issues with the majority of the cast..however I do concede your trying to he productive
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Not really... if you “know” where the survivor is you’d turn around to mask your directional husk to juke the survivor.
And if you were going to stand still at a pallet mind game and phase you’d make sure to stay looking in their direction the whole time type thing... it may need a husk sound when she stands still for that to work though. (While not in phase).
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See my above response to fixing that.
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Base Spirit is fine but there's almost no room for mind games against Spirit with good add ons and Stridor so what's the point?
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That would not likely work..and even if it did...it would just make her stressful as you dont feel fluid in your movements..and out in the open that straight up wouldnt work either..its just too much and negates her entire powers purpose
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You still have her speed to utilise as the killer aswell as invisibility... it’d just be like vs’ing a survivor with spine-chill... you’d just have to choose your mindgames... which just adds to mindgaming. Maybe it’s too much with collision gone but pretty sure built in spine-chill gives enough information to survivors.
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Only difference is pine chill tells you 1 direction..a turning husk? Shed lose so many tiles from it..
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The idea for the husk is that it’d basically be spine chill but audio based only when she’s phasing. It’s not like a “directional husk” since you no longer hear the husk as the survivor if she’s not looking at the survivor.
This makes her distance hard to guess but then again... she’d probably definitely need collision removed since she’d kind of have built in prayer beads for spirits at a really high skill cap level... if she knows where the survivor is/intends to go and prayer beads could add collision as an add-on.
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Honestly the more I think on it removing collision may be the solution..think about it..not only does she stop running randomly into people but she will need to exit phase early to hit her target granting some reaction time as well as nerfing prayer beads grabs with the same need to exit early, I think they should try this..it may just solve nearly all her grievances
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I feel like removing her collision could just kill her... I don’t think you see that what I propose adds a buff to the spirit also but removes her ability to randomly/luckily find the survivor.
You could play spirit like you normally do but if you look away from the survivor as the spirit you can’t hear her... that’s a powerful tool in place. It’s both a weakness for tracking and a strength for mind-gaming (when the spirit is likely going to track).
Her husk is still non-directional meaning the survivors won’t know where she’s coming from but they will know if she’s facing them.
I think base spirit powerlevel is fine... that’s why I see a more of a rework of her basekit in order than just a nerf.
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I dont think the collision change would kill her by any means, my only concern would be bugs on accidentaly phasing inside someone..honestly looking at this analytically it could be the most fair change possible
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