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1v1 vs 1v4 Mentality
I want to make a video on this but I want to hear a little discussion on this first because its an interesting topic.
A lot of people thing the game should be balanced around the individual chases, and a lot of people think it should be balanced around the broader 1v4.
To me, both sides are equally right. If we are talking solely balance, the game does need to be balanced around the 1v4 aspect. If we are talking individual player fun / player retention for the game, it needs to be balanced around the individual interactions with the killer, because no one is having fun just sitting and holding M1 for 5 minutes.
The argument is exemplified pretty well against Spirit. I don't even think (barring a few addons) she is overpowered. She can still lose the match as a whole if the team spreads out with toolboxes and is extremely efficient. However, the individual experience of each person in the game suffers. So in terms of 1v4, she is balanced, in terms of 1v1, people hate her and it causes people to stop playing.
I have my own thoughts on it but I want to hear your guy's thoughts first. Which is more important? 1v4 game balance or individual interactions to promote fun and retain players?
Comments
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I agree with that, its very hard to balance a killer to make them efficient in 1v4 and still make them fun in the 1v1, especially when SWF adds in the communication perk.
I play like 70% killer but when I do play survivor there are certain killers I have a lot less fun going against, some due to the 1v1 factor, others due to I find them really boring to go against.
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I understand what you mean when you say "Individual interactions", you are refering to chases, but there are pallet saves, flashlight saves, bodyblocking, hook sabotaging, coordinated or not coordinated head ons on swf, etc. The other players can also interact with the killer during those so called "individual interactions". So I don't think you can really balance the game solely on so called "individual interactions" under these circumstances.
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Even still, in your examples they're all nearly a thing once a chase with one person has ended. Now a new interaction begins (trying to flashlight save, etc).
Also don't focus too diligently on "individual." its more accurate to say "the personal experience vs the game as a whole"
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If we balance the game for 1v4 then solos will be even more miserable. If they actually buff solos to swf levels then sure, why not?
Chases are the most fun part of the game. If they are super short, where is the fun in that?
As a survivor, if you keep outplaying the killer then you should deserve to have very long chases. If you outplay the survivors as killers then you should be able to end chases quickly. That's how I see it.
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With a secondary objective, the devs wouls be able to give more space for 1v1s. In a game where gens get rushed and maps are that huge, the 1v4 mentality is sadly the right one.
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I think if the game was balanced around a 4v1 on a 1v1 level then they’d have to take generators out completely.They’d need a more interactive and different objective that naturally takes longer for survivors to do to get out. So basically they’d have to gut the game to balance a 4v1 on a 1v1 level
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Even still, if I'm correct and you're refering to chases, it seems to me that you are limiting "the personal experience" to a chase, when there's also part in which the killer has to pick you up, part in which you have to struggle the part in which you finally get hooked. Wouldn't you consider those also a part of the "personal experience" you have with the killer? Because I would. And if you admit those are also part of your experience with the killer what I said before is still relevant.
I would have no problem in only focusing on the chase if flashlight saves, bodyblocking and those things didn't exist and wouldn't interfere with the personal experience of each survivor, but they do.
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Yeah I think map size has a huge factor in 1v4 and the 1v1. All the big maps are literally horrible for every killer other than Spirit, Nurse, Billy, Freddy, Demigorgon and Hag to an extent.
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This is an interesting situation because both opposing roles cannot exist without eachother. Survivors need Killers and Killers need Survivors. Without eachother, the game ceases to be.
At a high level view...
If you consider 1 vs 4 more important, then the ppl who play the 4 could leave. Then the 1 has noone to play against.
If 1 vs 4 is treated as 1 vs 1...then the actual 1 could leave and the 4 have noone to go against.
Both 1 vs 4 balance and individual interactions seem equal as without eachother, the game dies.
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Honestly only Billy and Spirit and Nurse are immune to big maps those days, because the other ones mobility is somewhat survivor dependant.
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Personally I'd much rather go for a combination of trying to make matches last longer on average (secondary objective(s) for survivors and such) and map reworks to reduce the amount of braindead loops with no LOS blockage/totally safe pallets. I don't mean short loops with no LOS or "bloodlust 1 = free hit" pallets, but structures that are more about outwitting eachother than "will the survivor be greedy with the pallet or not?" as the only interesting question in most cases.
If matches lasted longer on less "safe" maps and the needed changes to balance it around that duration were made, it could have interesting chases and also give the killer time to actually deal better with all 4 survivors in chases that are more interesting to them as well. And survivors get something else than generators to do even while ignoring "optional" stuff like totems and chests.
So basically make matches last longer so the killer can 1v4, and add more opportunities to actually outplay eachother to improve the 1v1 chasing experience for both sides. I'm not going to pretend for a second I actually know exactly how to accomplish this though.
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The problem is that comms make some killers useless and other OP against solo queue
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How do you deal with that though? "Hey the killer is going into the house you're in, get out. Hey the killer is chasing me work on gens. I found hex totem in killer shack someone else get it I'm in a chase".
That alone makes it no longer a 1v4 or a 1v1, it's a whole other level of #########.
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My personal suggestion would be to allow opt-out of SWF games as a killer, and add a BP bonus to people who opt-in. That way, the game could be balanced for solo queue, but still allow SWF to play.
However, BHVR would NEVER do anything to threaten their SWF profits.
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I think something as simple as notifying the killer how many people are in a group so they can adjust addons / offerings or whatever accordingly would be fair. A lot of the time even a full 4 man SWF is just friends messing around.
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No killer would ever queue up for SWF.
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I mean, I would.
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I agree with that, I don't know why it hasn't been implemented yet. However I disagree with friends just having fun, especially in the red ranks. Id say 70% of SWF games are super try hard and the remaining 30% are just playing together.
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If you only look at 1 vs 1, then every killer is overpowered. The only difference is how long the killer takes to down and kill you. So you should balance around 4 vs 1.
I know it's not fun to get down so quickly. But it is not spirit's fault for wanting to down you that quick, because she is on a time bomb
Also, there are some loops that are also completely overpowered (like windows in some maps that can be abused). Those things are definitely not fun for certain killers because there is nothing you can do. IMO those problems are even worse that the problem spirit has because spirit can still loss, while if every survivors abuse those loops, they are guaranteed to win
As you mentioned, even with spirit, you could lose too. So how about every killers that are weaker than her (which includes every killer except maybe nurse, i'm not sure about her)? In those matches these optimal SWF will dominate every single time because even the best killer cannot keep up with them
So the final problem comes to how quick gens can be done, because this is the problem every killer has. Otherwise ruin would not become almost mandatory in the first place.
You can somehow nerf her chase, but gen needs to be looked at at the same timE
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If you're 1 vs 1 the killer, you will definitely get downed no matter how skill you are. You cannot loop a killer forever, even that killer is Rank 20. The only difference is how much time you can waste before it happens.
Also, it's not like spirit does not have counterplay, she has, just difficult.
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I feel that true potential of individual survivors should be looked at. If both parties play optimally there is so much m1 killer can do to shorten the chase.
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I only mentioned Spirit can still lose to separate her "strength" from the 1v1 chase component she has. Her 1v1 chase component is unlikable and guess-heavy at best for what I would say is a majority of people.
Conversely, someone like Nurse, who can potentially be even stronger than Spirit, doesn't have quite the same problem because there are more things to react to with her. At least when people quickly go down to a Nurse, they can think "Well at least she was good." You don't even really have to be good with Spirit, which puts a bad taste in Survivor's mouths when they get downed by it.
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I think to balance SWF, they should make Kindred's effect baseline.
One of the biggest issues you run into as a solo Survivor is not knowing whether your teammates are going for an unhook or not. So you'll often have games where everyone goes for an unhook at the same time (Thus wasting a lot of time) or where nobody goes for an unhook (Meaning you needlessly lose a teammate early on).
For SWF, having Kindred's effect tells you nothing that you don't already know, so it's not a buff for SWF, only solo players.
Plus, this change would discourage camping. If you camp, you're now guaranteed to get genrushed.
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1v4.
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That doesn't even balance SWF at all. All that would do would make it easier for solo survivors to know what everyone is doing. SWF are still stronger overall.
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My Opinion is slightly biased, but the game isnt even designed for a 4v1 situation. Thematically, and by original design, its more a "1+1+1+1" vs 1 , and somewhat balanced accordingly. Thats why SWF and more heavily CWF shift the game's balance. (not to mention that NONE of the advantages of SWF happen intrial, and none INSIDE THE GAME for CWF)
The 50% escape chance or 2E/2K balance goal sounds weird too, "The game is balanced if the killer on average fails to do half his objectives, while 2 survivors fail too"... The Cointoss analogy is even worse, A solo survivor absolutely wins if 1 of 4 coins (his own) lands on ESCAPE, SWF has varying goals of "the killer doesnt win, hahahaha"... and for the killer to reach an absolute win, survivors need to land 4 of their 4 coin tosses on KILLED (this is backed up by the emblem system giving depips on 3kills)
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Yes, and? SWF are going to be stronger overall no matter what. So why not give a significant buff to solo players?
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The idea is by making solo players and SWF on a more even playing field, you can buff killers accordingly and have it be far better balanced against any opposition. Instead, we have the whole "Spirit utterly annhiliates solo players but is a good challenge for organized groups."
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The game has to be balanced around 1v4 and not individual chases, you play as a team against that killer. In the end it will benefit you and others when all the gens pop.
Imo the game is not balanced around 4man swf at all and that is why the game is so easy as survivor. The more you play with a set group of people, the better you all work together there are so few killers (i mean players not the actual killer as char) thar are even able to play against that and win that it is something utterly rare to happen. Most of the roster is simply not able to keep up with that pace. Those are not most games, yep but most games were not against god nurses either.
A friend of mine brings with his group everytime 4 commodios toolboxes +pt, no matter the killer. Imagine how fast those gens pop, they troll a bit and get out. I agree that usually you should do make the most out of every pallet (which is what you said in your response to the video of tru3) but the thing is when gen pops quickly it doesn't really matter that you created a deadzone.
Playing as a team shows the balance of the game, you now have protection against exposed be it by kit/perk it doesn't matter. You can stun a billy out of his sprint with head on. The possibilities are lots, people just need to use it.
I would completely agree with you on everything you said against spirit if this game was 1v1. However it is 4v1, let me remind you of your first thread about spirit (iirc you said it wasn't about whether spirit is op or not just if it is fun/interactive) and check to what the thread developed, i think it wasn't even page 2 before people started to argue about exactly that. And this attitude will carry forward for whatever killer rises in the meta after spirit probably freddy/gf, billy, huntress.
As long as this community keeps acting like it isn't a balance problem because they want to be able to troll and waste their time as survivors this game will never have any balance at all. Counterpart to that is a bubba sitting in the basement waiting for that one person to come down and be chainsawed and complaining about gen rush.
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1v4 game balance is more important to me personally. Not having the same chances like my opponent to win a game is a real fun damper. (I see that from both sides: It's not fun when I'm at a disadvantage and it's not fun when the game is too easy.)
Doesn't matter whether the game I'm playing is an e-sports title or a party game.
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I think people want 1v1 too aggressively.
They want a situation where if they are a good survivor player, they should be able to single-handedly keep a killer occupied all game and be a hero.
The biggest issue with that is obvious, you can't balance the game around 4 people who ALL have the ability to waste a whole game's worth of time and expect the killer to still feel like they have a reasonable chance. It's why chases are getting shorter, pallets are getting less safe; in order for the game to work, you HAVE to go down.
In terms of Spirit I don't think she's balanced. It isn't to do with 1v1 or 1v4, she isn't an interactive killer. She gets information, while survivors guess and hope, and 9 times out of 10 getting information wins out. The only legitimate "counters" to her have to be pre-equipped before going into a match which sets a per-killer meta that people just don't want to build towards. While you do have to go down in a chase for balance, Spirit tends to make that "you go down in a chase 1 power use from the time you're injured."
It doesn't really matter if a hyper efficient squad all with toolboxes can scrape a win occasionally, that isn't 'balance,' that's an idealised scenario that just doesn't happen in pubs very often, and even then it isn't a guarantee.
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The "problem" with this game is that it's an asymmetrical game, so the 1v4 should take priority, but it's not necessarily a team game, so even the 1v1 aspect is very important. I know it's kind of of a non-answer, but one doesn't exclude the other.
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The main argument for people in the 1v1 boat is that if the killer is guaranteed to down someone with 4000 hours and they're guaranteed to down someone with 5 hours, what is the point of trying to get better at the game?
Is there some magical ratio to skill and chase duration? Like, assuming perfect killer and perfect Survivor. Is one minute a sufficient chase for the survivor to have displayed his skill while the killer was able to do the same? Two minutes? Thirty seconds? What killer?
So many variables. Then assume the killer is vastly better than the survivor. How much quicker should they go down. Survivor vastly better than killer? How much longer than a minute should they last?
You HAVE to have a skill coefficient in this ratio somewhere, or the game is skilless which makes people unwilling to invest time into getting better, thus everyone stops playing.
This is why Old Legion was such an abomination and the worst thing they've ever done. Spirit is nowhere near that bad, but it does share a few of the same characteristics of "any newbie with a good headset can do well."
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That doesn't deal with the power that SWF have is what I'm saying. Everything in this game was intended for solo play, keys, maps, offerings etc. However in try hard SWF groups that is what breaks the game along with communication.
So just buffing solo players will still not alleviate the lopsided matches that a full 4 man red rank SWF team brings into a match.
I do agree that solo players need better tools and UI to assist them.
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That doesn't deal with the power that SWF have is what I'm saying. Everything in this game was intended for solo play, keys, maps, offerings etc. However in try hard SWF groups that is what breaks the game along with communication.
So just buffing solo players will still not alleviate the lopsided matches that a full 4 man red rank SWF team brings into a match.
I do agree that solo players need better tools and UI to assist them.
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Is it a 4v1 game? Yes. Is 1v1 a big part of the game? Yes, I would say the biggest part. If the 1v1 sucks then the whole match sucks. People don't complain about spirit being to strong but because the 1v1 is unfun. Noone minds getting downed to quickly as long as you simply got outskilled (redglow mindgamed, your fault).
You need to see this perspective: old Nurse was more powerful than spirit, you could get downed within 10 seconds. But it felt more fair than getting downed by spirit in 20+ seconds (as long as no ridiculous addons were used like omegablink or 3+ blinks). The issue isn't the chase time, the issue is HOW you got downed. That's my opinion about the whole 1v1 situation. But since its a 4v1 game and a chasing one survivor allows 3 to work on gens and since gens can get finished very fast... Obviously the killer needs to have the power to down survivors quickly (as long as nothing get changed in the core game like second objective). But this power needs to be skillbased and counterable (like Nurse) and not a luckbased coin flipping which still gets you killed when you guessed correctly (like spirit).
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The problem is 1v1 and 1v4 are mutually exclusive. You can't have both at the same time.
Most low tier killers are balanced around the concept of a 1v1. They have very little in terms of map pressure, but may be solid in a chase. Clown is the perfect example of this. He is probably the strongest killer in a 1v1 besides Nurse (even better than Spirit) but he has absolutely 0 map pressure in a 1v4. So he gets stomped by good survivors.
The top tier killers are all balanced more around 1v4. Nurse, Spirit, Billy, Hag, Huntress, Freddy, Ghostface. They can all both do well in chases AND keep map pressure high. The former being the more important as I pointed out with Clown. Like take Freddy. If you remove his gen teleport, he would automatically drop in the tier list, probably wouldn't even be a real threat, because he would lack map pressure.
Plague is another good example of this. At base, she lacks map pressure. If survivors don't cleanse, she gains some chase potential since they are always injured, but 0 map pressure. But then the moment someone cleanses, or she used and apple and took a corrupt fountain, suddenly she gains INSANE map pressure. Now anyone that is sick is forced to stop what they are doing and cleanse. She also gains INSANE chase potential. Dare I say that if Plague permanently had Corrupt Purge she would, hands down, be the strongest killer in the game. Only Nurse would be potentially stronger, and even then it would be close. This is the reason why a good build is important for her, because if you take Thana and Dying Light she gains a decent amount of map pressure without needing Corrupt Purge. I personally feel that Plague is very well balanced killer, she just needs some minor things in her base kit to add to map pressure outside of Corrupt Purge. The problem is she has a very specific binary mode, one you can't exactly apply to every killer.
Conversely, if you took someone like Trapper and gave him a teleport of some kind, he would instantly jump up the tier list. Like top 5 easy because of his high defensive ability and snowball potential, plus his ability to shut down the strong loops with traps.
I personally feel that people don't like Spirit because majority of gamers (not just DBD all games) lack the ability to think dynamically. They can't improvise tactics on the fly, or use their imagination to "see" the game as the other player in the moment, therefore they make really dumb decisions and lose. Like I've said elsewhere, the whole stand still trick the Spirit does is easily countered by just assuming she is doing both at the same time. If you do this, then you won't make what are obviously the wrong decisions and you choices are more limited. There is a theory in psychology called "overchoice" which is when people have a difficult time making decisions when presented with a ton of options. When survivors look at the stand still mind game as "is she phase walking or not" they already lost because there are just way too many options for them to consider. They over think the situation because there are too many things they could do in response to what they assume the Spirit is doing. But if you just bypass that question and assume she is doing BOTH at once, your options become more limited and this doesn't become a problem anymore.
And in so far as the "dynamic thinking" part, most players just lack the ability to use their imagination during the game. Sure you can picture it probably after the fact, but in the heat of the moment when you need to make a decision almost instantly it's just impossible for a lot of people. They said that Einstein was able to come up with his theories about light and gravity because he could IMAGINE himself as a particle of light traveling through space. That's not something just anyone can do, it takes a special kind of mind to even imagine that. Now have them do it with a gun to their head and literal milliseconds to imagine it. Yea, majority of the human population lack that ability.
And when it comes to Spirit, that's pretty much exactly what you have to do. This is why so many people have trouble against her. This is why literally more than 95% of survivors I chase as Spirit go down so quickly. They make dumb decisions because of over choice, and lack the ability to imagine things I could be doing (which believe it or not has limits and there are only a finite number of things I can do in any given moment that lead to success). The other 5% can do one or the other or both and they are truly very difficult to catch. Maybe it's because I main Spirit that I am able to imagine what she is doing during a chase, and I can picture the path she is taking and predict when she will be in a position to get me. If I see a window and she is a certain distance away and was just walking milliseconds ago, I know how much time I have to make the window. If I have enough, I vault because now she is forced to go around and I picture in my mind that she doesn't have enough Spirit juice to make it to the other side (depending on the window). If I don't have enough, I might just go for the window anyway hoping she messes up or I'll fake it. Depends on the situation, but people act like you are guaranteed to lose in these situations and that's so far from the truth. Hence why my position on Spirit is that she's fine the way she is (aside from Prayer Beads giving easy grabs).
Okay long post but I have one more point to make about this. @ScottJund you will want to hear this because I know you probably just read all that and said to yourself "bullshit".
I am a former Smash Melee pro and tournament organizer. And by former I mean pre-2008. I quit the game and left the community when Brawl came out. But I am OG Melee. Ask anyone that has been around for a long time, tell them my name. They will know me. Mew2king and LiquidKen both know me personally (M2K is a friend of mine and we live close in the same state, he got his start at my state regional events, we haven't spoken in years though but mention my name and he will know exactly who you mean). I was there from the BEGINNING of the Melee tournament scene, circa 2002/2003. At the time, everything was local/regional. You would rarely see players from other states at tournaments. There were several major groups.
Deadly Alliance from NYC (which was sort of the crew I was part of, but being from NJ we had our own crew). Ha Ha You Lose from Virginia (H2YL). SoCal and NorCal (I forget the groups). Florida (which was probably the least respected of all of them). Texas. And Midwest (Ohio, etc). Sorry to any Smashers I honestly can't remember the crew names outside of my regions because it's been like 15 years and I have ######### memory.
Anyway, there was always some trash talk between the crews. Everyone talked smack on Smashboards but no one really put their money where their mouth was because it was hard to travel back then. But when regions started to collide there was an interesting development. Just before a big east coast regional held by H2YL, their leader Chillindude was talking hella smack about a "secret weapon" they had. Everyone in NYC laughed because we had, arguably, the best players in the nation (which I know sounds weird considering there were no nationals yet, but it was proven to be true when regions started to meet... outside of this incident).
The secret weapon? A player named Azen. This guy literally didn't even own the game. He couldn't do any tech besides L-cancels on the most basic moves. But when we all went to their tournament in Virginia (or maybe it was one hosted in Rochester NY? I forget honestly) we found out that they were not lying. This dude single handedly DESTROYED every NYC Smasher. Like utterly and completely. WITH PICHU AT SOME POINTS. I can't even stress enough how big of a deal this was back then. And this is not hearsay, I was there I saw it with my own eyes (despite my ######### memory I vividly remember these matches). Wes played the best against him, but still lost. Dave (IK Ghost), the best Falco player in NYC, got crushed by this guy.
So how did he do it? What was his secret to beat players who were CLEARLY superior to him. DYNAMIC THINKING. This guy was literally able to read and predict everything they did. To the point of literal embarrassment (Pichu...). He knew what they were going to do before they did it. And he won, consistently, by playing to this strength. Chillindude and Chudat were pretty easy pickings for DA, but Azen trounced us all (well not me because I actually never got to play him at this time since there were like 12 of us and everyone kept saying "one more game" 😥). He had this skill no other player had, and I don't think many players have had since. After this, he was considered the top player for a time until more national type event started and Liquid Ken basically did the same thing to him but with more tech skill (and DA got a lot better at the game). His skill eventually evened out, but he was always considered one of the best players in the nation.
So yea that's my story. A literal nobody beat the best players in the world because of his prediction skills. Again I saw this with my own eyes, this isn't some story I was told. This is why I can't buy into this "Spirit has no counter play" because I've seen it. I've had survivors completely outplay me every time by prediction, almost like I was getting stream sniped (but I wasn't streaming). Combined with what I saw Azen do, I firmly believe she DOES have counter play it's just honestly not something the average player can do. Maybe that is a problem, but I don't think it is because it's very devastating when it happens.
I know I'm rambling now, but that's how I view this whole situation. And regardless, like I made clear in my post (https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/103119/the-only-spirit-discussion-that-matters) it doesn't matter because she is being changed anyway. I'd honestly rather focus on BHVR and getting them to be transparent with us about the issues they identified and their goals for fixing said issues, because at the end of the day that's all that's really important since it will happen anyway. I can't stop it, but I can at least guide the devs to make the better decisions knowing what they want to do.
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That's why i keep suggesting buffing solos to SWF level, and buff killers. Nerfing killers, in a long term, is a step that goes backwards
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I would say 1v4 is the correct target. Right now, the map tiles favor a skilled survivor in a 1v1 against most M1 killers, which leads to an imbalance in a 1v4 scenario. One feeds the other. I actually think Hawkins tiles are well done because a survivor has to actually win at the pallet to make it to another. Hawkins is a slaughter if survivors panic vault every pallet, but they can win a lot of the exchanges without running for 3 gens unless the killer goes full pepega. There shouldn't be a feeling of safety or invincibility in a 1v1. Teammates should have to manage hook states as much as killers manage time. Maybe that's unrealistic without in game comms being standard, but that's what I'd like to see.
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There is no straight forward answer.
If both players are of equal skill a 1v1 should be in the favour of the killer. If it's not equal the 1v1 should then be more in favour of the better player.
That doesn't mean a better survivor shouldn't go down it just means they should have the means to make it more difficult for the killer much like a killer who is better skilled than a survivor should down the players quickly. It's all about the length of time you can prolong or shorten the outcome.
The issue we have with that is someone simply being better can be punished by say camping. A killer that is better can be punished by certain perks for doing too well so its a hard one to balance as each side has the tools to punish better plays.
When it comes to the 1v4 survivors if working perfectly and coordinated then they will be stronger. As a 4v1 the game is harder for the 1 in that scenario and then becomes easier as players get sacrificed.
The game has to factor in so much more than a simple 1v1 or 4v1 scenario as they have to find the balance between solo and swf teams. While dbd is a coop game it's not a team game in reality. A solo player saving or helping another is really doing it for personal gain as whether that person escapes at the end or not it doesn't affect the outcome if they do. It's just the more that are alive increases the chances they escape or don't get hooked.
Yes there are part of the game where skill doesn't mean as much as it should but for the most part the better player will win. I think a lot of it comes down to some on both sides thinking they are better than they actually are.
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On a sidenote as an additional objective idea (might be awful but would at least slow down the game some) every time a generator is powered, you have to run over to one of the gates and let off some of that stored up power. The bar would be split up into fifths, all other gens would slow down to 50% of progression until you let off some of the stored power by letting some of it off to the gates. Another thing is you could highlight the control switch you need to run to, to let ot off for the survivors only and have the killer either guess which gate needs to be gaurded immediately after a Gen, or try to pressure other survs around gens. It slows down the game a bit, you can get rid of ruin and it adds an additional objective.
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if this game was balanced right than if the killer was as skilled as the survivors and no one was better than the other the killer should have a fair chance at winning but this is not the case since the survivors should be able to last a fair amount of time against the killer. the only reason high ranks are bearable to play with a non meta killer right now is because of the new match making where we can have rank 8's and lower skilled players join us due to swf. however that also is unbalanced since if we use a killer like billy, nurse, hag, huntress or any killer that is viable we can easily win against a team that is not as skilled as us. due to this i dont think this game can ever be actually balanced.
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