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Maybe we should wait until the Rift is over before judging?
The Rift, and specifically the premium track, seems to be the most controversial implementation to hit this game in a while. I see post after post of people deriding the devs, making wild speculations, and complaining that it's too hard to complete. Do you think maybe we should wait until all of the tomes have been released to pass judgement on this new feature?
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No. We've seen the challenges and done the math. We can clearly see what is achievable and what is clearly a predatory system and a cheap cash grab. Why wait to complain about it until its too late when we can clearly see what it is now?
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Except we haven't really seen the challenges. The devs have repeatedly said the tomes are not necessarily going to be identical to what was in the PTB.
And if they do end up being the same is it really fair to say it's predatory if you were able to see all the challenges before paying money to purchase the rift?
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So youre saying its not "predatory if you were able to see all the challenges before paying money to purchase the rift" and that "The devs have repeatedly said the tomes are not necessarily going to be identical to what was in the PTB"? Do you see the flaw there?
On top of that, not everyone will have done the maths involved. Some would just look and see thatif you complete the rift you get your investment back! If I play DbD a lot then I should come out a winner, right? Not many would realise that they can complete every single challenge in the Archives and play an hour every day and still not complete the rift.
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Well the stronger argument for it not being predatory is the fact that you can see how far you progressed in the rift before deciding whether or not to pay money.
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It doesn't even totally matter what the challenges are. Even if they are all able to be completed by the average player, it still only awards enough Fragments for 35 tiers of the Rift, leaving 35 tiers to be grinded exclusively by XP. I've timed how long it takes to earn a tier on the Rift: 4 to 6 hours. And yeah, it did include the daily bonus XP. If I average that to 5 hours, then it will take 2.5 hours per day every single day to complete the Rift. That's more than twice as much time as the devs said it should take. That's 175 hours in 70 days vs their estimated 70 hours in 70 days. That's a big difference.
One of the things many players have complained about in DbD is the grind. The devs finally made the Bloodweb a bit less grindy by letting players get 2 perks per level once they reach level 50. However, right on the tail of that comes The Rift, which is a new huge grind. Some people are already feeling the burnout trying to grind this thing, because a lot of people can't play every day, so they're left playing for a lot of hours on the days they do play.
Players wanted new challenges, new goals. Something fun to keep things fresh. A time-gated XP grind? No. That sucks.
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The DBD Community is pretty good in judging things before fully testing them.
So dont expect them to change.
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There are a few problems with the rift, the main one being how reliant it is on an XP grind. If they made it more challenge based, such as having a few daily and/or weekly challenges that grant rift progress similar to the archives challenges, the rift would provide a viable goal that is fun to actively work towards.
There's nothing different for me to do right now. The archives gave the game a new, tangible goal to work towards, and it felt good to complete each challenge. I finished all of them a few days after the release though, so now I have nothing to focus on in-game. I'm just doing what I've been doing for the past 2 1/2 years, and it's burning me out.
We need something more than XP and the very limited amount of archives challenges. XP farming should never be the only way of progressing through anything, especially in a game like this.
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"Judging before knowing" is a problem in our society in general.
This """"""logic""""""" Is one of the main reasons why stupid things like homophobia,racism,sexism,... still exist.
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So brave
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PREACH @Andreyu44!
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The XP grind would be happening while you're playing anyway. We still have 8 weeks of the rift it really shouldn't be a race to complete at this point. I also don't think pacing the tome releases is a bad thing. Completing it in 3-4 days is probably faster than the average person. And would you rather reach a milestone in 4 days and grind (i.e. play matches you'd be playing anyway) for 10 days or finish all the tomes in a few weeks and grind for 7 weeks?
We do know almost half of the rift levels will require xp. Better to have the grind split up some. And anticipation for the next tome is kind of exciting. Let's not forget this is only the first iteration of the rift pass. They could always end up adding more challenges to the next rift. That's really great feedback to leave for BHVR.
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My judgement of the archives/rift isn't based on difficulty or amount of time played.
For literally years we've been begging for more challenges and things (and some people wanted lore) and we got nothing until they found a way to strap it to a typically predatory monetization practice.
That alone is pretty scummy, the outright lies about the difficulty and the absurdity of the grind/challenges as well as the time gated nature is just a cherry on top.
Idgaf about the rift, I'd just like a decent set of challenges and goals for the game. Not a new lackluster time gated grind.
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Back to my original post, parts of your argument might prove to be untrue. We don't know what the other tomes hold? The rift shards earned for completing challenges might increase. The devs might do a double rift shard weekend similar to bloodhunts. We don't know which is why I'm saying maybe we should wait and see.
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So what you're saying is they might toss out everything to respond to player feedback?
Do you get headaches with your head in the sand?
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Back to my first post. We don't know what the rest of the tomes will be like. You are getting challenges. It sounds like just not the type of challenges you had in mind. Maybe you should leave feedback on the Feedback & Suggestions page and suggest ones you'd like to see. This is only the first rift. I'm sure we will see numerous iterations.
I also disagree that this rift is predatory and it's becoming tiresome seeing people mislabel this. Ok, maybe it looks similar to shady ######### other games have done. But it allows you to see how far you progress before spending any money. It's not predatory. This isn't loot boxes that you have no idea what's inside.
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Yup
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So it's either 100% highway robbery or it's fine? Nice false dichotomy. Also they clearly are so great about listening to feedback, I'm sure they're going to finally start now.
You're welcome to shut your eyes to what's going on and blindly hope that literally years of past experiences won't repeat themselves but I'm going to keep calling this ######### out when i see it.
Also, why would they change anything if we aren't telling them how how we feel?
These threads are just fanboyism made manifest.
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I would also like to say, and it may be hard to believe, there are a lot of people who see value in the rift due to the amount of cosmetics they can get for the price. A lot of us know we won't complete the entire rift and are completely ok with it.
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Value is subjective by definition. Essential oils are a billion dollar a year industry, but its still snake oil shilled to gullible idiots.
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Unless they do it sooner rather than later, it doesn't matter for me. Because they've split up the tomes to be released every 2 to 3 weeks instead of all at once or even just a week apart, they're releasing the final challenges in December right around the holidays, when I (and I'm sure many others) travel. I probably won't be able to do the tome level 4 challenges before the Rift closes.
Unless they increase the number of Fragments rewarded and move up the scheduled release of level 4, then I still probably have to average over 4 hours a day of playing (due to traveling in December) to finish the Rift.
Anyway, if we don't all voice our opinions now about why we don't like the Archives/Rift in its current form, then how could we expect to see change for the better? Especially when the premium pass costs money, we have to judge the product as we have it right now. We can't judge the product on what might be, we can't judge it on changes that the devs haven't even said are definitely coming. But if we want to see change, we need to share our concerns. And people who have spent money and are unhappy with the product as they've seen it so far have every right to judge it based on what they have in hand; they shouldn't wait until it's too late and their money has gone to waste to voice their displeasure.
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Their not tricking anyone into buing anything. This isn't fanboying I'm actually just trying to give people a more neutral perspective. I'm saying let's wait and see, not that the rift is the best thing ever.
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I'm sorry this upsets you so much. And how does this relate to essential oils? How do you feel that this rift pass is tricking people exactly?
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Yes you're saying lets wait and see if they throw out everything they've shown us and revamp it from the ground up. Months of work and something people have already purchased.
If that doesn't sound like pie eye in the sky dreaming i don't know what does. Blind optimism isn't neutral.
Predatory business practices don't require cloak and dagger. Everyone knows the house always wins, but casinos aren't shutting down.
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Why do you feel they should make this product so that everyone will complete it? There are those of us who know we won't complete it and ar ok with that and still see value in it.
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You seem to have issues with this game and have extreme expectations. I'm sorry that hearing a point of view that isn't in line with yours causes you so much distress.
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What are you talking about? What extreme expectations? That anything players request shouldn't be saddled to monetization efforts?
You're the one telling people to stick their head in the sand dude, I'm just pointing out how ridiculous that is. Sorry you weren't ready to listen to non agreeing responses bud.
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Because they stated that the average player could complete it. They said that. The devs stated that one hour a day of playing should allow the average player to complete the Rift. But like I said in my first post in this thread, the math is wrong. It's not going to be completed in 70 hours in 70 days; it's more like 175 hours in 70 days. That's over twice as long as the time they estimated. A 105 hour difference. That's huge.
Again, I'm not the one who said everyone should be able to complete it. The devs said the average player should be able to complete it. And there are average players who bought the premium pass believing that to be true and who would not have done so if they knew the actual amount of time it would take. I personally have not bought the pass because I'm not going to buy it if I can't complete the Rift, that's my own personal preference.
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There's an important consideration that seems to be ignored when people point out that the Level 4 challenges are going to be changed.
Were the challenges honestly just placeholders or are they being changed because we saw them due to a glitch?
I would honestly think that the archives were finalized and hidden for the purpose of longevity and the people who made them genuinely thought they were good challenges.
If they were just placeholders, why wouldn't they be generic challenges or simply have placeholder text in them?
I believe that the are only being changed because we saw them.
I'm also going to assume that the OP hasn't been playing long and has yet to fully understand how BHVR works when it comes to game design.
What you see is what you get and it won't change unless people point out the BS.
My favorite example is the Lunar Event for the Hound and the flashlight and pallet changes that were deliberately implemented.
We KNOW how these devs work, and it's rarely to the benefit of players.
More so these days in the age of monetization.
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But they aren't saddled to monetizing. You aren't required to buy the rift. There's a free track. It costs no money.
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You said that some people valued the pass despite how much it's stacked against them. I pointed out that value is subjective and something that serves no function brings in billions a year.
They outright lied about the completion requirements, they've obfuscated the later tomes deliberately and keep dropping "maybe it'll change" teases to string suckers like you along, they created artificial scarcity by filling in "exclusive" cosmetics that you'll more than likely have to spend MORE money to get, and they gutted the biggest event of the year to further shoe horn this battlepass into our faces. Oh, and i bought this game, and all but 1 dlc pack. This isn't a f2p game, adding a battlepass on top of that is greed incarnate.
There are literally books written about these types of practices. This isn't a conspiracy theory this is pretty basic psychology. But something has to keep DG going i guess.
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im not positive on your # for there only being 35. Because im at about 25 from level 1 + just playing as is.
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I'm pretty sure the devs themselves said the tome challenges provide 350 Rift Fragments, which is equal to 35 tiers on the Rift.
We also earn Rift Fragments with XP, and we started earning those from the day the Rift was originally supposed to be released. So, I think that's an extra 8 days of XP-earned Rift Fragments.
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