Why survivors cannot accept they are in losing position at pallet when vs nurse or spirit?
This is my opinion
Survivors are too used to thinking that looping at pallet is the only and most effective answer to against any killers. Yes, it's true sadly, majority of the killers cannot do much at safe loops except looping around it, get stunned and breaking the pallet
But when you are versing nurse or spirit, accept you're in losing position. They have the power to turn these mindless loops into their advantage (some of them). Usually these loops are all advantageous for survivors, but when a killer can turn this around, they asked for nerfs because "no counterplay".
You need to play differently against these killers. If you are so stubborn that you want to loop these killers at pallets like with all other killers, you deserve to get down
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I dont think its stubbornness. When playing against a huntress or a killer with spirit fury survivors drop the pallet early (Adapt). Nurse had literally no counterplay at a pallet. Her power boycotted this. At least now survivors can take the fatigue time to lose LoS. How would you have played differently to the original nurse at a pallet?
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Well counterplay to nurse has been reduced to run in a straight line away from it.
Honestly, I read this a couple of times on the forums, so I did have to test it. Yesterday I went into Custom Game with a friend, we picked thompson's house for a test run.
So yeah you will not be able to catch up to a survivor, no matter if you blink once or twice you can simply outrun the nurse. Should you not get a hit by the end, you would have to do the whole thing again. How is this considered balanced or fun @Peanits ?
So for testing purposes we took the wall right next to the house which is basicly a big straight line without any LoS blockers, without something blocking the way of the survivor or the nurse. I had no idea it was actually this bad.
How to catch up? Use an ultra rare oof.
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I drop the pallet to force nurse to blink.
You can still loop her like this. There is plenty of counterplay for nurse, and there is counterplay for spirit too. Seems like a l2p issue to me.
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Nurse has ot of counter play and you can even use pallets for that. Same for Spirit. You just have to change the way you use the pallet when playing against these killers, drop them early and some perks might help. Few days ago I made a spirit dc on a pallet loop, she couldn't get me there because I run iron will and spine chill and she got mad I guess.
However I think the reason why people want to see Spirit nerfed is mainly because it is a guessing game and has not that much to do with "mindgame". I think she just needs a clear indicator when she uses her power (like nurse holding up her hand or anything) and maybe a vault animation and most frustrating things about her would be solved. The problem is not her power, but the passive power she has, unlike any other killer.
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for spirit, being at a pallet is not a losing scenario, just like in Tru3's videos talking about spirit counter play, you want to throw down the pallet early vs spirit, NOT let spirit able to stand in the pallet then commence the mindgames of phasing or not phasing.
For nurse, no range addons or CDR addons, just run in a straight line and when she starts getting close use objects to break LoS and not be predictable in your pathing, you will waste a good amount of time
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Maybe you should try to make a point or any sort of argument. I explained in a thread how i usually will 4k with nurse in red ranks (without addons) but problem is that the killer is no longer fun due to a forced upon playstyle. The most effective thing vs a nurse is running in a straight line, without the Kavangah's Last Breath you will not be able to catch up to the survivor. This is without any exhaustion perks.
I tested that with a friend in custom game as i wrote. You can close the gap with single blinks, however running along the wall next to thompsons house, you will not be able to get a single hit into a survivor if he is just running straight. This has nothing to do with l2p, also made video of it.
We basicly used a survivor outside of TR so 33m. With double blinks (even charging 2nd blink while blinking for first time, you will not be able to).
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I think what he's saying is that survivor is simple enough to be put down to an optional science against most killers with the exception of spirit and nurse. And because the normal method doesn't work on them people call for nerfs instead of just playing differently.
I can't speak for nurse since im on xbox and have never been or played against a good nurse but i do know playing against spirit is the most different because instead of running for pallets im waiting for her to stop and then trying sneak away. With nurse i just do gens while all my teammates bully her so i guess she technicality changes the game on console too
Post edited by Rizzo on2 -
It is fun for the survivor, the whales of dbd, and that is all that matters.
You need to remember that they are balancing around "fun" (disconnects) and will nerf anything that has a low "fun" (high disconect) ratio.
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I disagree running in straight line is not my definition of fun or a good chase. This just beyond stupid.
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Problem is people are not throwing pallet down early, and then blame spirit for getting the upper hand
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For nurse, don't run in straight line to nearest pallet, instead go for anything that can make her lose her LoS. But i guess after her nerf, running in straight line works too
For spirit, use the pallet differently than usual, or go for windows
And i need to mention this, your objective is to waste killer's time, not outrun, evade and not getting down the entire game. Every killer can down you, regardless how good you are, even rank 20 killers. The only difference is how much time you can waste
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If you are trying to loop nurse or spirit, you are bad anyways. Good survivors don't do this.
Also, this isn't why people hate spirit.
Post edited by Gay Myers (Luzi) on3 -
Then why there are so many bad survivors? If these survivors can asks devs for nerf, saying she has no counterplay even they are doing the wrong thing, devs will be forced to listen to them.
I'm actually afraid of what they're gonna do to her. They tend to do things too far. If you asks for 1 nerf, they will give you 10, like nurse and legion
Post edited by Gay Myers (Luzi) on0 -
Because the ranking system is garbage and you can get to rank 1 as survivor even if you are a potato survivor. All you have to do is play enough that season. Still, I don't really see many people trying to loop spirit or nurse these days.
Many people don't really want a nerf except some addons , they want some changes or reworks to make her more enjoyable to go against. Base nurse was more powerful than spirit but most people didn't mind going against her. It's not really about how powerful spirit is.
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i only ask for one thing from devs.. don't make her miserable to play as and against, like what they did to nurse
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that is why I say DONT NERF SPIRIT, she is not OP because people refuse to learn how to counter a M2 killer.
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Oi, I loop nurse just fine!
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You understand that the nurse blink has a large distance in which they can keep up or even surpass a surivior, right? To say even when she blinks she can't keep up with a surivior is very untrue and you must not be experience with her to be saying that.
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She can get close, but never close enough to score a hit. Are you satisfied now? For a killer catching up means getting a hit, not breathing at their neck.
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Yeah the fact that this made it past testing... it really shows no one on the team can play Nurse, only against her.
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Never close enough to score a hit?
Want me to show you more videos?
A killer such as the nurse that can ignore all defences a surivior has by using her blinks. It only make sense that she relies on her blink instead of movement speed to get a surivior.
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But...but, the pallet 😢
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Yeah. Uses rare range add-on. Have a better video?
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You’re misunderstanding what they’re saying, either intentionally or not.
If a survivor runs directly away from the nurse, a base kit nurse can no longer catch them. No juking, no looping, no hiding. A straight line.
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How would you feel if your own chase mechanics arent reliable? Thats why. It shouldnt be the case, that killers can overdo survivor mechanics into a free/ez win.
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Is there any evidence to prove that?
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@Endstille can you share your video and tag them? Alternatively I can make one in about 6 hours once my wife and I are both home.
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What reliable chase mechanics do killers besides nurse or spirit have? I mean if your not those 2 you require a survivors mistake, but there is no "reliable counterplay" there isnt anything that will work 100% or the time for these other killers. But this fact is ignored, because its goes against the population narrative of spirit has no counter play, both have to be countered differently every match and theres not one that will always work. But because it's on the survivors side it needs a change.
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I didn’t ask for a video of a well played Nurse without add ons. I’ve 4ked as new Nurse with no add ons. I just found it incredibly unfun. I want to see counter proof that the straight line thing is bogus on base nurse, specifically. And again, I am 100% happy to show proof, just need to be given time as it’s not quite 1 here, I work until 4 and my wife works until 5 today. Need us both home to do a coordinated video.
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Breaking LoS isn't the best way to counter Nurse. You can run straight forward and she will take a long time to catch up.
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If you really want to master your nurse then play custom game and use the add on that allows you to see tour blinks. It is very helpful because it helps you know how to use your blink power correctly and position yourself to a place where a surivior cant dodge or juke your hit. Another thing is being patient and not be frustrated when you miss your hits because using her you must be calm. Finally, you must accept loses in lots of games using her because it allows you to know what a surivior can do against her for you to counter it. It also gives you experience to knowing how to use your blink power at the right time and e.t.c.
That's why Nurse is the best killer because it takes skill with the outcome and wins (almost every game no matter what).
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I will be entirely honest here - I don’t understand the condescension. Really, I don’t. I hate repeating myself across threads, but sure.
Back in 2017 Nurse was my killer of choice. I have and am now tempted to upload and share a soundless video I recorded of an endgame chatlog after the case where someone accused me of somehow modding my steam profile to hide my number of hours because someone with 100 hours would never be as good as I was with her. It was hilarious and a major ego boost for me at a time in my life where I felt pretty down on my luck.
I know Nurse. I know her extremely well. I don’t claim to be on the level of the “greats” in this game, ESPECIALLY not after I stopped playing in early 2018 and came back just at the start of October 2019. It took two games to get my Nurse back into my fingers. I didn’t play her too often as I was focused on trying the killers that came out in my absence, but I knew I had her back.
I say this not to flex, but to explain that I’m not bitching because I can’t play Nurse. The changes make her unfun to play, and without add ons she cannot catch someone running in a straight line. That is the bottom line for me.
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So are you just not reading what he's saying?
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Kiddo take a friend, go custom game, dont take any addons. Take whispers as a perk, blink to the friend who is the survivor. Ideally you use whispers so you can see 32m exactly. So you tell him once you start to blink he just has to run in a straight line away from you. You try to catch up to him.
I tried that with using one blink only, i tried with double blinks (fyi charging 2nd blink while blinking with the first since that way you travel more distance) and I tried with a combination of both. Result? It is not possible to catch up, you need addons to do that.
So test it and come back here with video how you catch up. Oh and btw the video that you showcased was tru3 playing with both range addons (i said you can not catch up to a survivor without addons who runs in a straight ######### line).
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Yes I can and will. Just need to find out how i can make something over the name.
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Skilled counterplay if you ask me, i catch up due to a wall blocking the way of the survivor. You can do this on any map. All you have to do is run away in a straight line.
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Because pallets are SUPPOSED to be the area of safety for the survivors. The only items that provide any safety in a chase are pallets and windows.
Nurse is the worst offender because there's no value in a pallet. You drop it or you don't either way she can blink and hit you, all dropping it does is slow you down. Worst is that even if you time your drop excellently and stun her mid blink, she just ignores that completely and gets a free hit.
Spirit presents a similar issue, because unlike every other killer you can't use any information to decide what the right move is once a pallet is down. Any time that should be bought is gone because the only correct answer is always drop it and run straight away. It's a huge boost in chases for a killer that is already highly mobile and strong in chases to never NEED to break most pallets.
Huntress is much more easily adapted to, as she is slow moving and has no way to get closer in a chase except running, so dropping a pallet earlier still allows you to break line of sight and use the pallet as a point of strength.
People have this massive hardon for saying "JuSt AdApT." If you went against ANY killer, even without their powers, and pallets just didn't exist, the game would be insanely difficult. It isn't as simple as "just playing better," Spirit's power especially forces you to run in areas where there is nothing of safety because you're at a pallet and she MIGHT be phasing, you have nowhere to go but away. You can pull all of the BS you want about backtracking or walking or whatever, but it's impossible to play all game without moving grass. Perks allow her to hear you breathe incredibly easily, laughably so when injured, and worst, collision means no matter how well you play she can bump into you at any time for a free hit. You CAN mindgame and outplay someone who hasn't played her much or isn't very good at the game, you cannot reasonably outplay someone who knows how to use the ample information they're handed on a platter.
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Then you deserve to get killed by nurse, spirit, hag, freddy, huntress
Get good
Edit: i don't want to be rude, so i apologize for skipping your thread after 1st sentence
Post edited by OmegaXII on0 -
That awkward moment when someone types up a complete argument and you cant come up with a counter. At least read the statement before replying, as they actually talked about playing against Huntress just fine.
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The moment i read "pallets are suppose to be area of safety", i'm done. Why do you think people ask devs to remove these safe mindless pallets and loops?
Pallets are suppose to give you a chance to slowdown killers and waste killer's time, not guarantee you the safety against them
And from the way he writes, he actually asks nurse and spirit nerf to a point where you can loop them like other killers. Or he is asking for every pallet to be like killer shack one when there is no mindgame at all when the pallet is thrown down
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The rirlw of the thread is claiming a pallet is a losing position. While im against the idea of super safe pallets, i still think they should offer SOME protection. abandoning every pallet and getting caught in the open is also an unsafe position, expecially against a killer who you cant out position due to the ability to not ever know where she is. A killer like huntress makes many pallets useless as well, but gives cues which allows a survivor to know when and where to take cover. Every killer gives similar cues...EXCEPT Spirit, who for some reason doesnt even give cues o some of her basic movement.
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I wouldn't try to loop them. That's their strength. Juking and gaining distance is how you counter nurse. That and stealth, but survivor mains don't like stealth much.
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The killer counter of "dont ever get found" is only viable to a point. The minute you have to start working on a gen thats out in the open, or go for an unhook thats not conveniently next to cover... You need a plan B, which is a means of running away. I think they mightve gone too far with Nurse, because this whole "run in a straight line" thing really shouldnt be a counter, but just like Killers can complain about certain maps having braindead easy and safe loops... Many of these same maps have giant areas where stealth is impossible. Trying to break LOS on maps like blood lodge, where the majority of the cover on that map is waste high...
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Do you have a video using the 2 blinks?
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No even more sad but i make it when i am home.
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After i watched the video, i know running straight line is a counter to nurse now, but seeing it first hand..
Devs really need to watch that
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People like to stick with their system. They don't like having to change it based on the killer they're playing.
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Agree. That's why i like versing nurse or spirit than other killers because they changes things up from mindless looping to skill competition
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