Buff legion, not break them.
Yesterday when the leaked changes for the legion came out, people who played legion weren’t happy with changes that were made which made hits in FF be a basic attack, meaning some of legion’s best perks like STBFL, Sloppy Butcher, and Third Seal don’t work anymore making his power even less of a threat then it already was. All of that at the cost of legion’s speed being a bit faster in FF but it still isn’t enough to compensate for the nerfs. The only good thing that comes from this are the button add-ons finally being buffed. But if legion is played how they’re “supposed to be played” then the first survivor you hit, isn’t going to be effected by the time you hit multiple survivors and chase someone else.
Now reading the notes fully, Beast of Prey got buffed where when activated, the killer gets the undetectable status. Cool right? Oh wait, legion’s power is to give survivors the broken effect and they have to mend. OH WAIT, since BoP now grants undetectable, survivors can’t do anything against legion and are screwed. How did this even get past the drawing board?? Did the devs not think “oh yeah we have a killer that makes survivors mend lol whoops.” While yes it isn’t the most effective way to down survivors as it takes awhile, that doesn’t mean it’s not going to be annoying for them and be abused.
Instead if taking time to think about legion (once again), the devs created moonwalk legion 2.0 which is why he was NERFED in the first place. This could be easily fixed by hopefully just reverting the BoP changes, however with the streak legion has had, they might get another nerf to work around this. It just boggles my mind how despite a large majority of people wanting legion buffed, the devs smack a nerf first then wittle buffs and think it’s great, and now instead of taking time to think about legion they completely bring back why legion was gutted the first time.
Knowing now these are the “Legion Changes” it’s safe to say the legion isn’t going to looked at for a while after this goes live meaning this is the legion we’re stuck with unless a major balance change comes or even a complete overhaul.
Save Legion.
Comments
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I have no idea what you're talking about; I play Legion and this is easily a big buff for Legion overall. These changes don't weaken my main Legion builds at all, and the speed buffs make it much easier for me to catch survivors, traverse the map and apply deep wounds to multiple targets. And the Button add-ons are finally useful.
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It nerfs perks that made FF a little bit more of a threat for slight speed increases. The main thing being the devs managed to make “moonwalk” legion again which is going to be annoying if abused. The changes don’t effect me that much but I still hate how despite wanting buffs, we had to have nerfs first sadly.
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First of all, STBFL isn't even that good on Legion, when many survivors will just stay injured against you, making the reduced attack cooldown pointless unless the survivors are grouped up and bodyblocking you.
Similar thing applies to Sloppy Butcher; experienced survivors will often just choose to stay injured and genrush. If you really want to apply Mangled, you could just use Defaced Smiley Face Pin and open up a free perk slot.
And why would you waste a perk slot on The Third Seal when you can just equip Smiley Face Pin? That way, they can't cleanse the totem to remove it permanently.
None of the perks you listed are essential to playing Legion. I literally don't use any of them in my main Legion build on live.
As for Beast of Prey, you know that Beast of Prey only activates if you're in a chase, and the whole point of moonwalking is to break the chase? And instead of getting Undetectable or applying Oblivious and waiting for the Deep Wounds timer to tick down to zero, the Legion player could just, y'know, hit the survivor and save time? If anything, you should be worried about Nemesis with the Legion, but even if you get it to work with Nemesis... why waste a perk slot and go through the trouble of moonwalking when you could just hit the survivor and save yourself some time?
Also, Feral Frenzy got a huge buff and I think you're seriously downplaying how much stronger it is now. It's a whole lot easier to catch survivors with it, and you can traverse the map a lot faster with it. It's easier than ever to get multiple hits with FF, which is the whole point of the ability.
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ive played legion for a looong time. been to red ranks and back a few times.
and the small chance to on hit perks for him is gonna make him more ######### than he was.
i still play legion to this day, hes probably my second most played. this is gonna suck hard, trust.
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If you use FF to travel faster, you are using it wrong. Enjoy the 4 second cool down for your trouble. It's a huge nerf. I like keeping people injured; I don't want them to heal. This makes that almost impossible.
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If you honestly think that you should never, ever use FF to traverse the map, I invite you to play Clown on a corn map, or on Mother's Dwelling. If you have a power that gives you mobility on those maps, it's generally a good idea to use it.
And every second a survivor spends healing is one less second they spend repairing the generators. Unless you enjoy getting genrushed and watching the injured survivors escape, one by one?
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Why would I use the ability to travel when you spend the next 4 seconds disabled. So I travel through the corn and see a survivor, then my time runs out and I'm useless for 4 seconds. But I got to see him sooner by your logic. And if I keep them injured, Chase's are shorter and they spend more time on the hook, which helps with gen speed. That and Thana slows it down when they are injured.
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This is not a buff, even the devs acknowledged it's a nerf. Slightly faster speed does not make up for on hit perks being worthless and mend time being decreased.
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Have you ever used Hillbilly's chainsaw to traverse the map? Being stunned and slowed for a few seconds after you stop running doesn't mean it would be faster to just run all the way across the map at 115% speed.
And keeping survivors injured is a luxury, not a given. Your goal is not to injure everyone, your goal is to get hooks. And again, every second they spend healing is one less second they spend on the generators. And healing tends to waste a lot of the survivors' time, especially if they don't have a medkit.
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are you serious? lmao
please dont ever compare billys saw and legions FF again bahaha
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So you are comparing hillbilly with his 9.2 mps speed with a 2 second cool down to legion with a 5.2 mps speed and a 4 second cool down? Next you will say that FF is comparable to Freddy popping out at gens. Face it, FF is broken as it is and this update will brake it more because it won't even work with some perks.
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i don't want to be rude but this is straight up mental gymnastic comparing the incomparable and making them the same level please stop
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I don’t use STBFL often on legion but it could come in handy especially since you can rack them up faster than any killer. Plus with legion being an M1 killer once you get stacks, you can use them to end chases quicker in chase. Lose some? You can easily gain them back.
Yes experienced survivors don’t find the need to heal but if they don’t it puts them in a dangerous spot and easy for you. If you’re up against survivors who don’t heal, thanatophobia will slow them down, if they don’t want the slow down they will heal, when they heal they’re wasting time and if you have nurses as well then it’s easy downs. They managed to heal? Injure them just as fast and they’ll be right where they started.
Yeah I know? Also that’s why I said “moonwalking” 2.0 as now instead of moonwalking you can literally just follow them and there’s nothing they can do and there’s no counters, like old moonwalking legion. Yes the killer can just hit the survivor to make it quicker and it’s not the most effective (like I said in the post). The point was if people want they can abuse this and make it really annoying and boring for the survivors as once you hit them, just wait and there’s nothing they can do but go down.
Also “catch survivors?” You can only injure in FF, I’d say you could cut distance but the same 4 second penalty doesn’t help. And traveling “a lot” faster? It’s a minor speed buff.
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That's what I'm saying. There are no "travel benefits"
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BoP isn't the problem perk its Nemesis.
Hit > deep wound applies> get stunned by pallet
They're now guaranteed to go down since Nemesis applies oblivious for a minute.
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Agree, but well its devs right xD
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legion nerfs so bad lol
worst killer in the game
they decide to nerf them majorly in exchange for help in an area where they didn't need it
AND they bring back the unhealthy gameplay of Deep Wound timer exploit via beast of prey in the same patch.
just delete legion already bhvr you obviously want to xD
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True however survivors can at least counter this by
- Dropping a pallet early
- There isn’t always going to be a pallet, waiting on the other hand there’s a lot more of.
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yea nemsis not that great could be a good meme build tho like moonwalk 3.0, but it's bad
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Honestly, having done the math, I don't know if you gain distance or not if you use FF to traverse the map, because I can't find any sources on how fast Legion moves during his fatigue animation. It's noticeably faster than the Nurse's movespeed during her fatigue and the Hillbilly's movespeed during his chainsaw cooldown, but I can't find a single source for the actual hard number.
That being said, you're really overreacting if you honestly believe that FF will be useless, just because it doesn't interact with a handful of perks anymore. It's not like you can't use other perks to replace them. Might I suggest Monitor and Abuse? It makes it easier to get first hits on survivors, and it increases the range of your Killer Instinct detection once you get the first hit in FF.
You can score a lot of hits and get a lot of chains now with FF that you previously couldn't, either because your vault speed was too slow or your movement speed was too slow.
Again, compared to most other M1 killers, Legion doesn't benefit that much from the effect of STBFL, because survivors often won't heal against him. It's the same reason you don't see many Plagues running STBFL, even though they usually rely on M1 to get downs. The reduced attack cooldown only helps you if you need to get multiple M1 hits in a very short time frame.
If you're up against survivors who don't heal, Thanatophobia slows them down and they're vulnerable to getting hooked if you find them. If you're up against survivors who do heal, then they waste a lot of time healing instead of doing gens, buying more time for you to chain hits with FF, or just get hooks. Either way, you win.
If the killer is following you and waiting for you to drop dead instead of just hitting you and getting it over with, then they're throwing the game. If you're upset by the fact that the killer is dicking around and wasting time with you instead of putting you on the hook, then that's on you.
And again, Beast of Prey only works when you're in a chase. The moment you break the chase, you lose the benefit of BoP. And last time I checked, Deep Wounds won't tick down if you're in a chase, even if the Killer has no Terror Radius.
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You basically just stated my point. Survivors heal faster now, giving them incentive to just patch up real quick and get back on gens. Before you could at least juggle them and buy time that way.
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What ? This is not true 10000000000 % the last sentence. Go play vs a Freddy and use the Styptic addon when you are about to go down by getting hit and see what happens. You will drop dead on the ground soon after while Freddy is next to you. You need terror radius for keeping deep wounds. Also it is very easy to keep a chase for 15 seconds esp on open maps that are the majority of the maps. Ofc you will need to keep running and keep that but still the whole idea it exist will make killers play for it and literally everyone hates this playstyle, not to mention the Legion still have addons that reduce the deep wound timer
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Legion moves at 2.7 ms when fatiguing.
Simply walking ->4.6*14=64.4m
Feral frenzy-> 5.2*10+2.7*4= 62.8 m
So, even with the buff, legion gains more distance by simply walking...
And the oni has a oneshot without penalty and can traverse the map even better than legion. Seems fair.
EDIT: Also, the impact of your hits is negative compared to the time that you take to apply deep wounds. Deep wounds takes 3 seconds less to be "cleansed" and you need roughly the same time in feral frenzy to hit more people. SO it is a nerf and this isn't add-on related.
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May I see the source for that data? I looked on Google and looked on the wiki, but didn't find that information anywhere.
The Oni has a one-shot without a penalty, and can traverse the map better than Legion... after he spends the first few minutes looking for survivors and farming blood orbs from injuring them. Before then, he's just a normal M1 killer with all the standard stats, and a power that makes it easier for him to track injured survivors. After he finishes farming and pops Blood Fury for about 60 seconds, the Oni then goes back to being a normal M1 killer and needs to waste time farming blood all over again.
Compare that to the Legion, who can use their power immediately at the start of the game, doesn't need to waste time farming resources instead of chasing survivors or patrolling gens, and only has a 20 second cooldown time between uses of his Frenzy.
If Feral Frenzy only applied Deep Wounds and didn't injure the survivors, you could say that it has a "negative impact". But in addition to needing 12 seconds to mend themselves, the survivors (Unless they have a medkit) will also need to find another survivor, then they both have to waste ~16 seconds of their time to heal one health state. Therefore, getting a single hit with FF will waste, by default, at least 28 seconds of one survivors' time. And since the healer also needs to stop what they're doing to heal their friend, it's more like wasting 44 seconds of one survivor's time.
If you were to hit all 4 survivors with FF, they would each waste 12 seconds Mending, then they would each waste 32 seconds healing each other. If you manage to get 4 chain hits within 44 seconds while using FF (Which certainly isn't impossible in a normal game), then you actually gain time over the survivors. And that's not even considering the time it would take the survivors to group up for healing.
You have to remember that time normally isn't on the killer's side. If the killer never actually starts getting kills, then the survivors will eventually finish the last gen and escape, no matter how many times you injure them and they stop to heal. That's true for all killers, not just Legion. So saying his power has a "negative impact" seems like a moot point when any killers' powers will have a "negative impact" if you never actually get kills with them.
Legion's power makes it easy for him to find survivors, get first hits, and force them to either waste lots of precious time mending and healing instead of doing gens, or leave themselves vulnerable to getting downed. Reducing the mend time by 3 seconds is not going to make him useless, especially not when FF got so many buffs to its speed.
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They may not benefit from it against survivors who don’t heal but that can go for any killer. The reason it was popular and good on legion was how fast they get stacks. If survivors don’t heal, that’s bad for them, if they do then STBFL will be amazing. You can afford to down the obsession too because you’ll lose 4, but easily get back 3 from one survivor.
Yeah it’s good...which is why they are popular on legion. Sloppy Butcher could be spread in seconds if survivors are close and if they see thanatophobia and heal it’s so much time wasted, and once they heal you can do it again faster than any killer.
As I’ve said now for the third time, I know it isn’t effective, it’s the worst way to play legion but it’s the most annoying way to play and it’s unfun for survivors which ta-da, will cause more DC’s and will show legion is “over performing” so the devs will nerf despite him being really weak. How being upset that a killer is able to just stab and follow me with being able to do nothing but wait is “on me.” That makes no sense. Guess all the people who dealt with infinite mending legion was on them.
It’s not that hard to stare at someone and follow them. If it is? Bloodhound. “Why waste a perk though?” Because trust me if a perk can help people abuse something they’ll use it. Also yeah no.
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Again, getting STBFL stacks doesn't matter if you can't actually take advantage of the stacks. If everyone stays injured, then there's no point in having all those stacks, because you only need to get one hit to end a chase.
Again, if you can't adapt to the loss of a handful of M1 perks and replace them with perks like Monitor and Abuse, then the problem is with you, not the game.
There are a lot of things that the Killer can do which you have no control over. If the Killer slugs you, then all you can do is crawl over to a corner and wait to die. If the Killer puts you on your second hook, then all you can do is struggle and hope that your teammates will come save you. If the killer puts you on your last hook, then all you can do is watch while the entity drags your character up into the sky.
If you don't like being put into a state where all you can personally do is wait for the inevitable, then why are you playing Survivor at all? Being forced to wait for something to happen is an unavoidable part of Survivor gameplay.
Again, the wording on Deep Wounds is vague. It says "If you are within the Killer's Terror Radius, the Deep Wounds timer pauses, whether you are in a chase or not". It doesn't say "If you are in a chase, but the Killer has no Terror Radius, the Deep Wounds timer will not be paused".
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You are wrong. Please stop. This was a huge nerf. It's ridiculous that anyone could possibly and reasonably think differently.
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What a nuanced and thoughtful counter-argument. Definitely not an overreaction, or a product of people jumping to conclusions instead of looking at the changes with a rational perspective.
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That is the perfect scenario in the low ranks. Middle-high ranked survivors know how to simply ignore deep wounds when they need to, know not to heal vs Legion. Most of the maps have enough pallets to you to chase someone until the game ends and they do nothing but dropping them.
The oni doesn't need that much time to stack his power. 1 hit gives him half of his bar (it can happen in the worst scenario at when the 1st gen is popped because he couldn't find anyone AND than can also happen to legion), has no penalty on using his power and can one shot everyone at will. I'm watching monto's stream and he is saying that this killer is better than billy which i agree after watching 15+ games of his.
Legion can make survivors waste a little bit of time but he also needs to hit multiple survivors to do what you're saying. To hit multiple survivors you need to waste your own time going after them and if something goes wrong then goes your power and pressure down the road with it.
Hitting 4 survivors is unrealistic between rank 8 and 1 and even above that you sometimes hit 3 survivors at best. Ofc there are exceptions but i think you get the point.
I don't remember how i got the info that legion's fatigue is 2.7 seconds, but i believe it was on the Q&A about the patch 2.7.0 when they changed legion and they explained why they increased the duration from 3 to 4 seconds that still doesn't make sense.
Anyways, legion needs better numbers to chain hits and his power must be lethal. There are ways to do that and i think that the devs are working on something about legion and this is not a change that there is to stay as a final hit on legion (I THINK) peanits told me roughly 2 weeks ago that they were in early development on some changes but nothing confirmed and that we shouldn't create hopes and stakes.
All other killers have a way that helps them in chase without add-ons by any means. Even ghostface and wraith have, respectively, red stain hiding (that is pretty dope) and a burst of movement speed to cut some loops that would've been otherwise impossible to cut.
So many buffs is 2 meters, what's your point?
Idk about your "buffs". 🤔
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The Mend time on Borrowed Time is 15...why is Legion's 12? It makes no sense for a Killer ability to help Survivors and get them out of danger faster.
Demogorgon's Shred cooldown is 2 seconds when he hits a pallet, no one complains, Hillbilly doesn't even get 3 seconds, Legion is the only Killer with 4 and yet he's weaker than those other two Killers. His cooldown needs to be 3 again, it's ok BHVR, it was a mistake just undo it.
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It's not. My opinion was simplified to save time because I already can tell debating with you would be counter productive for me. Your "perspective" isn't logically sound and baffles me that you could even believe in the things you are saying.
Maybe you are being honest. Genuine with your assessment but I find it very hard to believe.
I think it's more likely that you are someone that doesn't really care much for the character and likes the fact that he has been crippled to this point.
Just to give you "some" insight on my perspective. I would hate to come off as completely "over-reactionairy".
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Now I feel bad for wasting my time 😕
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If that’s the case then STBFL is a useless perk in your eyes. It’s not the best but it can save you in certain situations. You seem to be stuck on the whole “nobody heals with legion” meta but people do. A lot of people have since their first change.
You can replace them, I never said “there’s no point of legion because they nerfed this” I’m saying it’s dumb the devs decided to do this with legion after the outcry for buffs.
I’m not talking about being hooked and dying, it’s a part of the game? Slugging and moonwalking 2.0 are two different things btw.
So your answer to having a killer who wants to play in an unfun and uncounterable way, making the game boring is to not play that side..? Wow. Because I like to play both sides and not be one sided?
Literally just play Freddy lmao. Get someone into deep wounds and watch, you can be in a chase and their timer will still go down so I don’t see your point.
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Billy- 260 speed
Legion-130
Billy CD- About 2.6 second
Legion- 4...
Are you okay?
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And yet red-ranked Legion mains exist, and are quite capable of getting 4Ks. If everyone stays injured, then they leave themselves vulnerable to getting downed in a single hit.
There are plenty of M1 killers whose powers don't allow them to end loops any faster, and yet they are quite capable of killing mid-high ranking survivors. Even if you remove Ghostface because he can sometimes hide his red stain, and remove Wraith because he has a tiny speed boost after uncloaking (Which doesn't help him get a down unless the survivor was already injured, by the way), you still have Plague and Myers, both of whom are also quite capable of winning chases and ending loops against even the best survivors.
Plague's power isn't lethal unless the survivors choose to make it lethal. It doesn't even slow them down like Deep Wounds does. Myers' power doesn't help him at all against a survivor that's already injured, even during EW3. So why does Legion's power need to be lethal? I'm perfectly happy with these changes as they are, and I find it ridiculous that people only dwell on the negatives here.
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Legion issue can be solve by making chase affected for deep wound effect. If you are in chase the timer don't go down, Trust me the player won't risk losing the chase for moonwalking.
All legion need with these changes is his cooldown reverted to 3s and his basic attack penalty removed (gauge depletion).
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I... er... what? That's how it use to work and we know how that turned out.
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Nope, terror radius and chase should stop the timer and chase currently don't. Mending yourself stop the timer and that can be exploited against him as it's faster to mend now.
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"(Which doesn't help him get a down unless the survivor was already injured, by the way)"
If you go through all killers like that, then only one shot killers have a lethal power...
But plague still has the potential to kill someone with corrupt purge and she has an error in design that being injured doesn't have downsides. That's NOT how she was intended to be countered, unlike Legion. Legion before had his power lethal for some reason, the same reason that makes them unviable now: progressing the game in his favour. The way that they did that originated exploits and then legion got to this state of being a meme in the community.
Your line of logic isn't even a line. I'm gonna do like that other guy and give you a simple and short answer and we'll end it here.
No, because legion is already too bad and these changes restrict him even more from builds and power.
Have a good day!
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Well, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I am being honest and quite genuine with my assessment. I care deeply for the character, to the point where I spent my own hard-earned money to unlock him.
I have also voiced complaints about Legion's current state multiple times in the past. How several of his add-ons were absolutely useless, and how FF often doesn't prevent you from being looped because the vault speeds were so slow and the speed boost was relatively small.
Then BHVR released this new patch, featuring changes that addressed several of my complaints about the character.
Do I care about the fact that FF doesn't interact with M1 perks anymore? No, because I never used any of those perks in any of my Legion builds.
Do I care that Mending takes slightly less time than it used to? No, because I view it as an insignificant loss compared to what the character gained: Major buffs to several of his add-ons, and major buffs to FF's speed. 3 seconds of mending will not make the difference between victory and defeat 99% of the time, especially if the survivors stay injured after taking the initial hit. But 0.2 seconds of vaulting or an additional 5% movement speed can often mean the difference between landing a hit on a fleeing survivor (Which will often lead to landing additional hits on other survivors), or losing the chase and going on cooldown. I'd rather have buffs that help me put Deep Wounds on as many survivors as possible, than have Deep Wounds require the survivors to waste an additional 3 seconds on Mending.
So I view your "perspective" as illogical, and it baffles me that you only dwell on the negatives, and refuse to acknowledge that the character will now be stronger overall. I think it's likely that you're so attached to the Legion that seeing any kind of nerfs to the character feels like having a knife plunged into your ribcage, even if the devs more than make up for it with buffs to other aspects of the character's kit.
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Well, if you're going to be that rude to other people just because they disagree with you, then I suppose I'll respond in kind:
You're overreacting to tiny nerfs, you're ignoring all the major buffs because that would contradict your victim complex, and you're jumping to conclusions instead of looking at things rationally. But I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, since you've proven quite incapable of rationality in general.
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You keep talking like the very small bump in speed is going to make him end chases sooner. 0.2 seconds means nothing.
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Spoken like somebody who's never lost a chase because they did a Medium Vault instead of a Fast Vault. But hey, 0.4 seconds means nothing. How could that possibly be the difference between taking a hit and getting away, when the killer is inches away and about to lunge at you?
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Yeah, but even then it's extremely difficult and you'd be better off with another killer if you can do it with Legion. Even I know this, and I'm a red rank Legion main. I only do because I've dedicated so much time to being a Julie main that I'm best with them.
I liked using STBFL with legion, getting all the tokens quickly was why it was useful, but now... now not so much. Maybe if you want to conserve tokens, but if you were wanting hits with no cooldown, you'd just use your frenzy at that point.
Do not underestimate mending time. A survivor will usually start mending as soon as you go for another target, and after that they're free to do gens. It's legion's only way of slowing them down or distracting them, which for Legion, every second matters.
They may be faster, but Legion will always suck in a chase. They can get looped rather easily and .2 seconds really doesn't change much. I'd rather have a shorter cooldown for FF than extra time if they were going to do that.
I don't think they were dwelling on the negatives, but were just pointing them out as not balanced... which I'm inclined to agree. Whether or not they're stronger... I'll have to test myself, but they sound unbalanced, which is what they're pointing out.
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Well, again, I never used STBFL, and I know for a fact that there are other viable Legion builds, so I'm not going to comment on that anymore. I feel like there's nothing left to say on that point.
As far as mending times go, I think ultimately, it's much better to hit 2 survivors with FF and apply a 12-second Deep Wounds to both of them, than to hit a single survivor with a 15-second Deep Wounds debuff. Buffing your mobility during FF makes it much easier to get the first hit and to chain multiple hits, and allows you to do it much more quickly than before.
As you said, one of Legion's biggest problems in a chase was that even in FF, they could be looped rather easily. 0.2 seconds doesn't sound like much on paper, but in practice, I think it will often allow you to land hits that you otherwise couldn't. Combine that with the increased pallet vault speed (It takes 0.45 seconds less than it did before) and the increased running speed, and I think that landing hits and chaining hits together will be much more reliable than before.
If you're playing Survivor and you do a Medium vault instead of a Fast vault at a window, that's a difference of only 0.4 seconds, but that's often all it takes for you to get hit. It's why high-rank survivors usually don't go for the window when they're looping around the outside of the Killer Shack; you can't do a fast vault from that angle, and a medium vault is too slow.
If you're playing Hillbilly, there's a reason people bring add-ons like Spark Plug that reduce the time it takes for you to charge your chainsaw, even though it only reduces the charge time by a fraction of a second. A fraction of a second will very often make all the difference between landing a hit and missing a swing when you're in a chase.
When you're not in a chase, every second counts. When you're in a chase, every fraction of a second counts.
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.2 or .4 isn't that big in the scheme of things. Not compared to the 4 second stun, the 3 second decrease in mend time, or the loss of healing time cause by sloppy butcher. You act like the chases are so close but I've never lost a Chase because of a .2 second mistake.
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There are two kinds of DBD players: Players who have lost chases because of a 0.2 second mistake, and players who have lost chases because of a 0.2 second mistake, but think they haven't.
Here are a few simple, everyday examples:
-I'm being chased by the Killer on Blood Lodge, and I'm going for the nearest pallet. I'm navigating through a small maze of debris. As I navigated through the debris, I made a few sub-optimal turns that costed me 0.2 seconds, so instead of getting a pallet stun as the Killer lunges toward me, I go down.
-I'm being chased by the Killer and running towards a window. I don't approach the window from the correct angle, so I do a Medium Vault instead of a Fast Vault as the killer starts to lunge towards me. So it takes me 0.9 seconds to get through the window, instead of 0.5 with the Fast Vault. Thus, instead of getting through the window and creating lots of distance between me and the killer, I go down.
-I'm playing the Hillbilly. I'm chasing a survivor around a loop, and trying to hit them with my chainsaw. I start to charge it up as I round the corner, and the survivor is just a couple meters away from the pallet. But instead of landing a hit with the chainsaw, I get pallet stunned. If I had brought the Spark Plug and Primer Bulb add-ons, I would have hit the survivor before the pallet hit me.
-I'm playing the Legion. I'm in the middle of chaining together multiple hits, and closing in on a distant survivor. They vault through a window, and I follow them. My Feral Frenzy is about to expire as I start to close in, and I lunge just as the duration is about to end. Because it took me 1.1 seconds to get through the window, my lunge falls just short of the survivor's hitbox, and I go on cooldown instead of getting a hit. If it took 0.9 seconds for me to get through the window, I would have hit them.
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You are correct about that. There are other viable builds, and they'll probably get seen more than ever at this point. But it means it's the same as Pig's change, but unlike Pig, Legion needs to use their power to get a lot of hits and apply pressure. There are very few times where Pig's ambush is used to great effect in game.
Again, that's why I run frenzy duration addons (If I'm really having trouble with them, but I don't usually, so I run the iri button for more awareness), and play legion as a quick decision killer. Legion relies on all information at their disposal, and having DW helps greatly stall for time. You would not believe how many people I catch up to that barely finished mending is ridiculous. It forces them to stay in one place and remain injured for 15 seconds, which in a Legion game, every second matters. Survivors know you're playing a weak killer, and will take advantage of that to get gens done quickly... and that's with ruin.
Yeah, but how many survivors are going to give you that opportunity. Often times, survivors have a plan when chasing, one that often makes that incredibly difficult to catch their mistakes. And even if they make one mistake, they have perks to save them from their mistakes. DS lockers, Dead
I don't like playing Billy... and didn't even mention him. That argument is moot right now. But to entertain it, I'll mention that Billy's saw is one of his modes for movement, whereas Frenzy definitely isn't.
In a chase, you have to force the survivor to make a mistake. Legion doesn't have that many options to do this. Frenzy's good for getting a first hit, but after that, it's all mindgames.
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We can play these what if games, but it doesn't address the underlying problems with legion.
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Well, I still think that the buffs to mobility outweigh the nerf to mend times. When you can run and vault faster, it allows you to be much more efficient with your time. Small things add up quickly in a chase.
Using my example with Fast Vaults: The killer is lunging toward you as you approach a window. If you fast vault, you get through the window safely. If you medium vault, you get hit and go down. So if you successfully perform a fast vault, you not only gain the extra time from the fast vault (0.4 seconds), you also gain additional time that the Killer has to spend getting past the window, and making up for the lost distance as they run after you. What would have been a 10 second chase is increased to a 20 or 30 second chase, or possibly even more if the survivor finds another good loop.
So, this tiny fraction of a second extended the chase time from 10 seconds to 20+ seconds. I think the buffs to Feral Frenzy will have a similar effect. Because you can end loops significantly faster, you end up gaining 5-10 seconds due to the shortened vault animation and increased movement speed. You can now get a hit in situations where the survivor would have otherwise gotten another loop out of you, or forced you to go on cooldown.
Which is why I think the buffs to Legion's mobility will buy more time overall than the 3 seconds of mending from Deep Wounds would. Being able to end loops faster makes it less necessary to have a long mending time.
And again, considering that Plague, Ghostface and Myers can all hold their own in the red ranks, I don't think it's absolutely necessary for killers to have powers that can end loops faster. If their power gives them a quick, reliable way to get first hits, that seems to be enough for them to win against high-ranking survivors.
Keep in mind that, according to BHVR's statistics, every killer in the game (Including Legion) gets more than 2 kills on average, even in the red ranks. Even the worst killers in the game can do well in high-ranking competitive play. So I'm always skeptical when people say that X Killer is "useless" or "overkill nerfed" just because they received a tiny change. And in this case, Legion was buffed in many ways, so I'm even more skeptical when people immediately jump to saying "RIP Legion".
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