Buff legion, not break them.
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I'll probably have to test out the new Legion when it comes out, but if in practice they're worse, I'll still be complaining about it.
Myers, Plague, and GF all essentially have instadowns as a side ability. They also have something that their power gives to help down people. Legion's is the only nonlethal ability in the game. It doesn't help them get downs. Even clown's gas helps him down people.
Well, but how many of those 2 kills are DCs from people mad they got downed by Legion? Legion appears to do well on Xbox, but maybe they should be asking why are they only good on that platform (even then, throughout my time playing Legion, they are really weak compared to killers like Billy who is far more common on Xbox)?
I just think it's kind of dumb they do this to Legion when Oni has essentially has a Blood Frenzy that can one shot people and break pallets quicky, and act as a billy chainsaw... and based on the PTB footage, it's not hard to get the Frenzy back up for him.
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Fatigue MS is 2.7 M/S and is identical to the Nurse's fatigue during that time. It likely feels faster because you are shorter.
DW will go down in a chase so long as you are outside of the TR.
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Mend time in general was reduced to 12.
Borrowed time was therefor buffed.
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Oh so that change was for Mending period and not just Legion, well they went all the way with consistency except for Legion's 30 seconds instead of 20
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Well, Oni has to build up to his Blood Frenzy, in much the same way that Myers does. Oni starts out as a killer with no power until he gets a hit, then his power gives him a slightly improved tracking ability. He only gets his Blood Frenzy after farming a bunch of blood orbs, which slows him down. Then Blood Fury has a charge-up time before it activates in earnest, and a limited duration which soon forces him to go back to being an M1 killer, wasting his time farming blood instead of chasing or hitting or hooking survivors.
Legion doesn't have most of those restrictions on his power. His mobility is a straight-up speed boost instead of a hard-to-control dash (A dash that can't be used on most loops, btw). Legion can vault windows and pallets, while the Oni has to get past them the hard way. Legion can find out exactly where the survivors are once he gets a hit with Feral Frenzy, while the Oni's tracking abilities are much more limited. Legion can injure all four survivors on the enemy team, faster and more reliably than any other Killer.
As far as lethality goes, I would argue that Legion's power still helps him get downs. Feral Frenzy allows me to get first hits that would otherwise be nearly impossible. For example, if I find a survivor and they vault through a window on a god-loop before I can get to them, I can often pop Feral Frenzy, vault the window and get a hit that I wouldn't be able to with most other killers.
Every killer has their own strengths and weaknesses. Legion's strengths lie in his stall potential, his mobility, his tracking, his map pressure, and the ease of getting first hits on multiple survivors. Instead of dwelling on stuff that other killers have like insta-downs, why not just focus on playing to your strengths? Especially considering that they just buffed his mobility and his map pressure?
Ghostface rarely gets to actually use his insta-downs in red ranks. High-ranking survivors are too paranoid to let you stalk them for long enough. High-ranking killers often just use Ghostface like a better version of the Wraith, using his lack of a terror radius to get a first hit before survivors can react. Also, Ghostface has zero mobility, zero tracking ability, zero stall potential, and zero map pressure. He can also be looped just like any other M1 killer, with no real way to bypass pallets or windows.
Similar deal with Myers. Stalking until EW3 is deceptively difficult against high-ranking survivors, and having to spend precious time stalking instead of hitting can be costly. Like Ghostface, Myers also has no mobility, no tracking abilities, no stall potential, and no map pressure. And like any other M1 killer, Myers is vulnerable to pallets and windows. Also, since survivors know about your insta-downs and know when EW3 is active, they'll often choose to stay injured and genrush you during EW3, making your insta-down ability redundant.
Compared to both of them, Legion is better at stalling out the game because of Deep Wounds, and better at getting multiple injuries on multiple survivors, because of his ability to rapidly zip around the map and chase people down once he's gotten his first hit with FF. He doesn't have to waste time trying to sneak up on survivors in order to get hits during a FF chain.
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According to the wiki, Nurse moves at 0.96 m/s during fatigue. But the wiki doesn't say anything about Legion's fatigue animation. I've noticed many times that I can cover a surprising amount of ground during Legion's fatigue animation, while Nurse's fatigue animation feels like I'm trying to push a Nurse-shaped statue.
And that's good to know that Deep Wounds will tick down if you're in a chase but outside the TR. But I still doubt that "moonwalking" with deep wounds will ever be anything more than a gimmick. Why waste a perk slot and wait 30 seconds for the survivor to drop dead when you can just press M1?
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I think the video kinda explains itself - guaranteed down in 30s regardless of what the survivor does. And that was with the legion not really chasing either.
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Myers has Stealth, faster vault speeds and a longer lunge in tier 3. Pretty simple why he's relatively good there.
Plague is much closer to Legion but is less unwieldy. To list everything out:
- Plagues injury is permanent, against Legion a Survivor with medkits or healing perks can force you to keep using your power where otherwise you could have immediately downed them, this also means someone who's not confident in looping can give themselves a failsafe if needed. Plague offers none of this.
- As a consequence of the previous statement Plague is better at defending objectives and capitalizing on basement hooks. Against a Legion you can heal up before taking a risky play and the Legion will have to take a stun at one point or another to down you in response. Plague shuts this down entirely with the broken status.
- Plagues tracking effects are also permanent. Legion needs to keep using his power to regain his tracking abilities and until a Survivor mends they can't be tracked nor can they be used to initiate tracking. Broken Survivors will leave their trail of sickness no matter what and will be loud and glowing even with iron will.
- Plague has superior addons, specifically her apple addons and both her UR addons. Apples grant her guaranteed access to corrupt, which is both good in it's own right and also forces Survivors to cleanse to Survive it thus granting you even more corrupt. Black incense is by far the best tracking method in the game once set up, which is extremely easy to do and can easily force Survivors to cleanse, but since they don't know if the addon is in play that means they are always pressured to cleanse just by it's existence.
- The Plague (as a result of the latest changes) has better perk synergies. Specifically with thanatophobia (where she is the only Killer that can meaningfully make use out of it), dying light, the new bloody echos ect. Legion does have a synergy with these perks, however if needed the Survivor can just heal anyways to deal with the perk in the event it becomes a problem and then not heal otherwise. Plague presents no such option and thus is more consistent.
And even after ALL of this Plague is still only just decent and not actually fully Viable (which I define more loosely than some people like Tru3 do)
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When the PTB is over the devs will look us all in the eye and say this with a sick and twisted grin on their faces:
"With the addition of the oblivious or undetectable status effect to numerous perks, legion can no longer apply deep wound since it was unfair for survivors"
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Honestly feel the same way about this, maybe it’s just another reason to “look at him” or maybe the devs somehow didn’t bother thinking about legion. I just want an overhaul on legion completely at this point. They have to either rework the perk or do something about legion having a power nerf. Poor legion :(
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Well, if you list all of Plague's strengths and none of her downsides compared to Legion, then yeah, she seems pretty good.
But Plague has no mobility whatsoever, no mechanics to directly stall objective completion, and a tracking ability that only works if the survivors choose to touch infected objects. She also needs to repeatedly land Vile Purges on survivors before they actually get sick; getting a survivor fully sick can easily take a lot more time than getting a hit with FF, especially in small enclosed maps.
And honestly, if you look at the actual numbers, every killer is viable. Every killer gets more than 2 kills on average, even at red ranks.
Interesting. So why are people calling these changes a nerf again?
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That build has nothing to do with these changes and would've worked without them. It's entirely on the Nemesis perk (or beasts of prey perk).
People are calling it a nerf because the negative changes don't outweigh the positive changes, in their opinions. I personally think the vaulting changes are big, but a 4% (125% * 1.04 = 130%) increase in move speed is really... meh compared to other movement abilities in the game.
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Plague only needs to hit you once. The sickness will progress from there on it's own unless you cleanse and we all know how well that turns out.
The tracking I'm refering to is that broken Survivors leave a trail whenever they touch anything, not that it shows the Plague when they get infected (which itself works as early game stall or tracking which I didn't even list). It's harder to compare their tracking aspects compared to their chase aspects since it isn't a 1 to 1 comparison but it's significantly easier to counter Legions tracking than Plagues tracking.
As for Mobility, Frenzy doesn't reduce patrol times at all due to the fatigue, so it only matters in terms of a chase and even then only for the first hit. Plague can use the ranged effect from vile purge to get the same effect as mobility much like the Huntress, it's even a bit better in terms of that since the effective range for vile purge is 13 meters but the effective range for Frenzy is 12 meters. That range goes up if you have a height advantage.
Plagues vile purge also has no cooldown and almost no fatigue AND can be chained with a basic attack for an early instant down much like a Huntress melee hatchet. Legions fatigue always prevents an immediate followup.
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Actually, let's do some quick math:
5.0 m/s to 5.2m/s means you get an extra 2m over the course of FF, so you catch up to a survivor about half a second faster than you had previously (100% = 4m/s so 2m = 0.5s) over the course of 10 seconds.
You vault pallets 0.45s faster, which means you can start catching up to them about half a second sooner. It's nicer because this 0.5s is frontloaded rather than requiring you to use your entire frenzy to see. Also if you end up having to vault multiple pallets the gains are even larger.
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I think the movespeed buff isn't as significant as the vault speed buffs, but still significant considering the nature of Legion's power- a simple speed boost that allows you to move in any direction you choose, and run loops normally without worrying about bumping into things like you would with Billy's chainsaw, or getting blocked by windows/pallets like you would as Spirit.
Well, if you hit them once with Vile Purge and then wait for them to get sick, that means you have to let the survivor escape. Legion will also hit you only once, but if he leaves after hitting you, then he can immediately make a beeline for another target, instead of making educated guesses like Plague.
I would argue that Legion's tracking is much more difficult to counter than Plague's in the early game. The only way to keep Legion from finding out exactly where all of the survivors are is to not take a hit from him, ever.
What is this "effective range" you speak of? When you have Feral Frenzy up, you can easily reach a target near the edge of your terror radius before it expires, which is a much longer distance than 12 meters.
Plague's power also has a wind-up time that slows down the Plague before and during its use, making it difficult to land its full duration on a survivor that knows how to loop and juke it. The early instant down you describe only works if the survivor takes the full brunt of your Vile Purge, which tends to be rare against experienced survivors.
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