Hex Perk totems need a rework.

Baklavah

The way I see it, you have 2 options, 4 if you want to be brave. Yeah, I've made this kind of a post before, but it's been long since buried. The reason this post is being made is because all of the hex perks are pretty much useless except for NOED at this point. R1 survivors ignore Ruin, and the remainder of the time Ruin is removed from play within 30s of the match starting. It's not fun to use such decent perks if you're going to be running 3 perks for the entire match instead of the 4 you start with. You're gimping yourself. So, my suggestions are as follows:

Option 1: Make the totems harder to find. Less obvious. DO NOT PUT SURVIVOR SPAWNS IN FRONT OF THEM!

Option 2: Remove the light, and allow the unused hex totems to act as decoys. This makes the real totems harder to find, and makes survivors waste time hunting for them.

Option 3: When hex totems are destroyed, the survivors that destroyed them should receive a curse. This curse can stack up to 4 times, reducing their action speeds by 15/20/25/30 %.

Option 4: When hex totems are destroyed, a mini-effect of the perk that was disabled remains in play for 180s.

These options are MORE than fair considering the ridiculous amounts of perks survivors have that counter everything the killers do.

edit
Wrote "patch" instead of "match". Corrected this.

OxyReap

I agree with 1 or 2, good idea. I posted mine recently too, if you wanna check it for give your opinion.

I don't like 3 and 4 because it punish survivors for doing good. But why not a perk who can do this kind of thing, maybe a bit less stronger  

azazer

OxyReap said:

I agree with 1 or 2, good idea. I posted mine recently too, if you wanna check it for give your opinion.

I don't like 3 and 4 because it punish survivors for doing good. But why not a perk who can do this kind of thing, maybe a bit less stronger  

You definitely have a point about punishing players for doing their objectives. But then you have perks like make your choice and devour hope. Is it punishing the survivor for saves, or rewarding the killer for not camping. If we can make a condition it would be justifiable

OakLestat

I like all 4 options.
Option 1: needs to happen.
Option 2: would be great if the totem actually darkened just slightly instead of glowing across the map. Or even became slightly translucent or totems could be smaller to start with and get bloody instead of bright.
Option 3: You know as survivor that you are sacrificing for the team to take out the bad perk. The curse could not stack and should just have a couple minute timeframe.
Option 4: would add legitimacy to at least bringing the perk in knowing that at the current rate all totems and Hex perks are wasted within a minute of starting a game.

Really changing them so they are harder to see and option 4 are the best ideas in my opinion.

OxyReap

@azazer said:
OxyReap said:

I agree with 1 or 2, good idea. I posted mine recently too, if you wanna check it for give your opinion.

I don't like 3 and 4 because it punish survivors for doing good. But why not a perk who can do this kind of thing, maybe a bit less stronger  

You definitely have a point about punishing players for doing their objectives. But then you have perks like make your choice and devour hope. Is it punishing the survivor for saves, or rewarding the killer for not camping. If we can make a condition it would be justifiable

I think it must be a perk, and not a basic rule, that's only my opinions after all.

Baklavah

I'm glad this topic is getting a bit of traction. Hopefully the devs will actually read this and see that it's necessary to make changes to the hex totems... because as it stands, hex perks are completely worthless you're basically going in with 3 perks and 1 perk that you expect to lose almost immediately... gimping yourself for the duration of the game. It makes no sense.

@OakLestat said:
I like all 4 options.
Option 1: needs to happen.
Option 2: would be great if the totem actually darkened just slightly instead of glowing across the map. Or even became slightly translucent or totems could be smaller to start with and get bloody instead of bright.
Option 3: You know as survivor that you are sacrificing for the team to take out the bad perk. The curse could not stack and should just have a couple minute timeframe.
Option 4: would add legitimacy to at least bringing the perk in knowing that at the current rate all totems and Hex perks are wasted within a minute of starting a game.

Really changing them so they are harder to see and option 4 are the best ideas in my opinion.

I'm glad to see people agree with me.

I appreciate your opinions. I'm hoping we can drive the message home and get the devs to take a look at Hex Totems and fix the system... as it stands now they're pointless to use. Even NOED is iffy if the survivors run around cleansing "just in case".

Navydivea

Ruin should just be part of the game IMO. Options 1&2 are a strait yes.
3 would be more like 4/8/12 progression but to be honest that should be a Hag passive in the first place.
4 I'd say 90/105/120 sec would be fair though you would have to address endgame totems

Baklavah

@Navydivea said:
Ruin should just be part of the game IMO. Options 1&2 are a strait yes.
3 would be more like 4/8/12 progression but to be honest that should be a Hag passive in the first place.
4 I'd say 90/105/120 sec would be fair though you would have to address endgame totems

The problem is that I don't know if the devs will even bother... if they adjust Hex Totems/Perks and make them more viable, the survivor community may have a conniption fit... There needs to be a system in place that makes things moderately more difficult for them and adds an extra layer. At least that's what I feel.

PrinceTy

Maybe have the hex totem look like a dull totem from a survivor point of view. And have the killer only be able to see the totem that is their hex . It will slow the game down a bit trying to figure out which one is the hex totem as a survivor 

The only downside to this idea is that there is a chance Noed will not be active because survivors will destroy every dull totem they see. Normally when playing survivors we tend to just focus on gens or finding hex totem but not too much on dull totems all the time. That is why noed gets active most of the time. 

Baklavah

@PrinceTy said:
Maybe have the hex totem look like a dull totem from a survivor point of view. And have the killer only be able to see the totem that is their hex . It will slow the game down a bit trying to figure out which one is the hex totem as a survivor 

The only downside to this idea is that there is a chance Noed will not be active because survivors will destroy every dull totem they see. Normally when playing survivors we tend to just focus on gens or finding hex totem but not too much on dull totems all the time. That is why noed gets active most of the time. 

Then the totems also need to be made less obvious. Not only does the "I'm active HERE I AM" flame need to not show up for survivors, but the totems themselves need new spawns, and they need to be made LESS obvious. If you want to be able to find the totems, a map item would suffice, which means that while they're trying to track totems, they're not doing generators, which shifts the gameplay speed and makes the killers as dangerous as they should be without being overpowered.

As far as I'm concerned, NOED not getting activated just means the survivors spent more time looking for totems than doing gens, and by that time one or two of them are already dead. They'd have to prioritize, and THAT needs to happen.

OxyReap

Hey guys, don't forget to balance the game, you look like you want 2 deaths anyway the killer is bad or not. I think just hide the hex totem won't delete the randomness and you can still get your hex perk down in 15 seconds.

The game is already hard for survive a good killer, the problem is the killer have not enough time, good or not against competent survivors. And maybe redisign the game for make them fear again the killer, and promote juking and trying to hide instead of winning time with pallet looping.

Summary of my though :

• Game must be longer (Billy and Nurse need a nerf if this happen) : Giving time to Killers.
• Pallet loop must be nerfed : All low tiers killers are bad because of that, nothing else.
• More juking and hiding mechanics : Have a real chance to escape a Killer, it can make survivors fear a bit more the Killers too, and give them more solutions & more funs.
• Aura reading ability must be nerfed or reworked : It deny survivors to hide correctly and promote only the winning time strategy = pallet loop again.

That's only my opinion, for me, my HEX totem rework idea fix the first point.

OxyReap

I posted my idea right here if you wanna see : https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/10658/totems-rework-idea#latest

Would be good to have some more opinions, survivors, and killers sided.

Baklavah

I'm reviving this. The devs need to get on this already.

projecteulogy

I wouldn't mind totems regenerating or re-lighting the perk after so many seconds. The "curse" could be another perk all together. Though, 30% is way too high. Mixed with perks like Thanataphobia would make it extremely OP.

Too many times have i found a Hex Totem within 15 seconds of starting and had a feelsbadman moment bc now that perk is gone. I'm not even scared of Hallowed Ground. Just find a locker and hide. Even as a survivor main, I feel Hex perks are seriously underpowered unless they are extremely well hidden but RNG has too much play on that.

Baklavah

@projecteulogy said:
I wouldn't mind totems regenerating or re-lighting the perk after so many seconds. The "curse" could be another perk all together. Though, 30% is way too high. Mixed with perks like Thanataphobia would make it extremely OP.

Too many times have i found a Hex Totem within 15 seconds of starting and had a feelsbadman moment bc now that perk is gone. I'm not even scared of Hallowed Ground. Just find a locker and hide. Even as a survivor main, I feel Hex perks are seriously underpowered unless they are extremely well hidden but RNG has too much play on that.

Finally, a Surv main who gets it...

projecteulogy

@Baklavah said:

@projecteulogy said:
I wouldn't mind totems regenerating or re-lighting the perk after so many seconds. The "curse" could be another perk all together. Though, 30% is way too high. Mixed with perks like Thanataphobia would make it extremely OP.

Too many times have i found a Hex Totem within 15 seconds of starting and had a feelsbadman moment bc now that perk is gone. I'm not even scared of Hallowed Ground. Just find a locker and hide. Even as a survivor main, I feel Hex perks are seriously underpowered unless they are extremely well hidden but RNG has too much play on that.

Finally, a Surv main who gets it...

I played 12 games yesterday as Huntress with Devour Hope. Only one game did it last more than a few minutes due to it being well hidden. They can do so much with totems, but they don't. which actually irks me pretty bad. Small game, Map with tracking killer belongings addon counter totems ezpz. So why even have hex perks if they're so easily removed.

Regenerating hex perks mean more totems to break which means more points. More immersion. As it is, after my first 20 hours the game feels like an "Arcade" game(now im at 1440). There's no scary bits, no immersion unless you play a pure Stealth build. Then killers and survivors a like taunt you for not bum rushing the hook or running passed a camper to save your team. "you let your friend die noob" etc etc.

I dont even look for ruin anymore. Its easier if you power through it since most killers camp the areas their totems spawn in.

I don't like gen-rushing but what else are survivors supposed to do? Devs need to think of some other mechanics for survivors.

TigerKirby215

One thing's for sure: totem spawns need to be way better. I honestly laughed at the PTB patch notes when I read "made Hill Totems harder to spot" instead of "removed hill totems."

Baklavah

TigerKirby215 said:

One thing's for sure: totem spawns need to be way better. I honestly laughed at the PTB patch notes when I read "made Hill Totems harder to spot" instead of "removed hill totems."

It's completely asinine... and then they expect us killer players to just accept it like they're doing us a favour. If I could slap their lead dev, I would. This idiocy needs to be rectified already. This basically makes 5 perks completely worthless.

Warlock_2020

I don't like punishing the survivors for doing objectives, but I do like the first two. I say, instead of not glowing, how about a soft red glow of the eyes that is not easily seen until you get close. That, and all killers should be made aware when a hex totem is being tampered with. So, if I run Ruin, I should get an explosion notification when someone toys with my Ruin hex. I then can go in for the save, or ignore it. Furthermore, the actual hexed totem should take 25% longer to destroy than dull ones. It is, after all, hexed.

Warlock_2020

Here's another idea - Why not let each killer "prestige" a hex, making it no longer count against their perks count? One hex, and only one hex. Killers are in a map with 4 perks and 4 survivors who each have 4 perks. Why not let them choose a hex to be efficient with once they prestige?

Why? Because when the survivor destroys the hex in the first 60 seconds, the killer is now playing with 3 perks vs 16 survivor perks. Only DS is a one-and-done perk for survivors, and that one is a big one.

Baklavah

@Warlock_2020 said:
I don't like punishing the survivors for doing objectives, but I do like the first two. I say, instead of not glowing, how about a soft red glow of the eyes that is not easily seen until you get close. That, and all killers should be made aware when a hex totem is being tampered with. So, if I run Ruin, I should get an explosion notification when someone toys with my Ruin hex. I then can go in for the save, or ignore it. Furthermore, the actual hexed totem should take 25% longer to destroy than dull ones. It is, after all, hexed.

This is by far the best idea to come up with regards to Hex totems. I swear to god at some point the devs just need to acknowledge that their system is completely useless and they're going to have to address it. And when they do, this idea needs to hit them in the face so hard they'll remember it for a year.

Also, SABO should NOT affect Hex totems. In fact, Hex totems shouldn't even show up for the Small Game perk. That by itself is the biggest bad idea they've had for hex totems. PERIOD.

Whispers23

Just don't spawn survivors near the totems and make them better hidden. The rest I don't agree with.

CoolAKn

Sometimes, it's just very poor RNG. I spawned near a generator, and started working on it, revealing Ruin was in play. Leatherface came to patrol the generators, so I backed away, and I found Ruin in a spot that's actually pretty easy to miss, unless you are coming from a specific angle. Further into the match, I was being chased, and I saw a dull totem inside a "U" wall of tires (I had gotten into the habit of cleansing dull totems), but I got caught and hooked. After I was rescued, I went back to the dull totem (it was near where I was hooked), and this time, it was lit, and someone else just became NOED's first (and last) victim. Both hexes were in pretty good spots, but then, there are other games where the Hex is just sitting there out in the open, literally like a beacon. People (killers primarily) ought to screen shot totem spawns, and let the devs know which spots are garbage (so garbage I feel bad finding it almost immediately).

@Baklavah said:
The way I see it, you have 2 options, 4 if you want to be brave. Yeah, I've made this kind of a post before, but it's been long since buried. The reason this post is being made is because all of the hex perks are pretty much useless except for NOED at this point. R1 survivors ignore Ruin, and the remainder of the time Ruin is removed from play within 30s of the match starting. It's not fun to use such decent perks if you're going to be running 3 perks for the entire match instead of the 4 you start with. You're gimping yourself. So, my suggestions are as follows:

Option 1: Make the totems harder to find. Less obvious. DO NOT PUT SURVIVOR SPAWNS IN FRONT OF THEM!

Option 2: Remove the light, and allow the unused hex totems to act as decoys. This makes the real totems harder to find, and makes survivors waste time hunting for them.

Option 3: When hex totems are destroyed, the survivors that destroyed them should receive a curse. This curse can stack up to 4 times, reducing their action speeds by 15/20/25/30 %.

Option 4: When hex totems are destroyed, a mini-effect of the perk that was disabled remains in play for 180s.

These options are MORE than fair considering the ridiculous amounts of perks survivors have that counter everything the killers do.

edit
Wrote "patch" instead of "match". Corrected this.

As a survivor main:
*Option 1: Yes. Make them less obvious to find. There are some excellent totem spawn locations, and some garbage ones. They need to be better hidden especially given how fragile they are. Remove all garbage spawn locations.

• Option 2: No, but some hexes are revealed too soon, such as Huntress Lullaby is revealed when you start working on a gen, before it's even gotten a token. It should be after the first hook. If they make hexes harder to find, Option 2 is unnecessary.
• Option 3: Kind of, just have that survivor suffer from the effects of the hex for maybe 60 seconds.
• Option 4: Alternate (or in addition) to Option 3, give the Hex about 30 seconds to fully dissipate.

Baklavah

As far as I'm concerned, ANYTHING is better than the garbage hex totem system they're running right now. It's so survivor-sided it hurts. Hex perks last less than a minute most matches. It is completely worthless to run hex perks. Even NOED is completely unusable as long as the survivors aren't braindead. It just isn't fun to run 3 perks for the entire match because your 4th was INSTANTLY negated.

Baklavah

Gonna keep bumping this until the devs understand that this needs to be addressed.

Whispers23

Survivors spawn in front of a totem or putting them near gens is really dumb.
Need to be fixed.

Baklavah

@Whispers23 said:
Survivors spawn in front of a totem or putting them near gens is really dumb.
Need to be fixed.

Agreed... And their "Totems on hills are harder to see" fix is absolutely #########. WHY ARE THEY SPAWNING ON HILLS?! -_- seriously, it's like they have a board of "good ideas" and a board of "bad ideas" and they flip a coin to throw darts at either board and add something from whatever board they hit. It's asinine, and it needs to stop already.

Baklavah

BOOP!

This is going to continue to get bumped until you deal with it Devs. I can do this all day. You can either ban me, delete the thread (spoiler alert, I'll just make another one), or ACTUALLY FIX THIS BROKEN FRIGGIN MECHANIC!

DarkGGhost

When ane survivor /s use DS one hex totem will light up and if will break the survivor/s will lose the perk even if he/she didn't use it.
1) If a killer have a hex then the DS will be in that totem ( one totem 2 perks)
2) if their more than one hex perks then one will be chosen randomly
3)Nor the killer nor the survivors will know in which totem the DS will be.
4) we need one or two more perks ( popular perks to be hex too).
My idea.

bendermac

Interesting Ideas.
On top: Why not add really hard skill checks while cleansing?
If you hit them, the killer wont be notified, unless he runs Thrill of the Hunt
If you screw up a skill check you have to start over, kinda like snapping out, but with way harder skill checks.

Youkari

in general i approve to most of these changes; changing and reworking spawn locations would be a dream come true but may be taking alot of redesigns and hence programming. My proposal: adding two more totem to the roster, as well if the killer use a 'active' hex perk, all totems are lit for the survivors view but only the killer sees the real ones. That way is easier to implement on the programming side as well is a decent bandaid until they make the full map redesign and the mentioned payback/lingering effects if they want to implement these wich i however doubt they're going this far

Baklavah

@Youkari said:
in general i approve to most of these changes; changing and reworking spawn locations would be a dream come true but may be taking alot of redesigns and hence programming. My proposal: adding two more totem to the roster, as well if the killer use a 'active' hex perk, all totems are lit for the survivors view but only the killer sees the real ones. That way is easier to implement on the programming side as well is a decent bandaid until they make the full map redesign and the mentioned payback/lingering effects if they want to implement these wich i however doubt they're going this far

This relies on the devs doing things other than catering to the survivor players to "increase their fun factor". I swear to god, it's like they KNOW they're going to p*ss people off, and they do it on purpose.

What about killer players, Devs? You think it's fun for us to lose constantly or be forced to play TWO KILLERS to do anything? Are you high? Do you see the size of the Killer roster? And yet you limit people to 1 or 2 killers in order to stay on the curve. Never mind get ahead of it. You'll never let us do that because the Surv mains will scream until they get their way, and you ALWAYS cave.