The Bottom Line Of Hook Suiciding
It's the same damn thing, bloodpoints aside, as disconnecting; you're leaving the match as quick as possible because you're 'not happy with' or 'don't approve of' <x> killer/map/perk/tactic. You're bailing without trying, and screwing over your team.
And if it's fine for Survivors to flake out via hooks when they are butthurt, then how come Killers have to endure 3-to-4-man SWF meme squads recording for their trash clickbait '360 dank meme amazing epic bully this Killer and THIS IS HOW HE REACTS! 😂😂😂 SALT!' 5-subscriber youtube channel, or bully squads treating the Killer like a punching bag for their twitch streams?
Kinda funny how it only seems to be acceptable one way. Almost like it should not be acceptable AT ALL.
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Comments
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I imagine devs have the means to tell who is just intentionally suiciding on first-hook and who is not, so with them taking a seemingly tougher stance on DCing, they should look into this as well IMO.
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like i said in the other post they should just make struggle automatic itd avoid the lag problem to when it comes to struggling on hook since sometimes itll lag and dead you so at least the survivors can unhook the person and it gives the killer more bp to.
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Nobody said it was fine for either side. Just chill out, and move on to the next game.
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So now BHVR is going to monitor who is playing half arsed, nah man, a DC will be punished, dieing early is just something you are going to have to live with.
You cannot force people to play in a round they don't want to. As long as they are using the game mechanics to leave fairly, then that's it.
Trying to Kobi is a legit game play mechaninc, and struggling is a second chance for a survivors to make up some BPs before being out of the game. If a player doesn't want those points then they have the right to die and leave.
Trying to force someone to continue to give a crap about a trial when they hate Tactic/map/killer is an impossible task and thinking they can punish people in to playing like they care is ridiculous.
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I don't believe that it would be difficult to monitor who is dying suspiciously frequently on first hook.
Also, considering that they are punishing DCing, this idea of "you can't force people to not leave" does not hold much water.
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Your post seems very specific, I rarely see someone say hook suiciding is ok.
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You can't force people to play. If hook suiciding is removed, the people will move onto the next best thing.
The problems should be addressed. Of course, there is no pleasing a player who disconnects on first down but not every disconnect/suicide is the same.
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It's really not that serious
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They can do it when killers get punished for tunneling and camping.
Thanks for listening to my TED talk.
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Camping and tunneling isn't a means to get around something punishable. Hook suicide is.
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They can monitor who tries to dehook themselves for sure, and yeah someone who doesn't even try on struggle is easy to track as well.
My point is why would they care? The player used in game tactics to leave a match, they didn't do anything sketching or forbidden. Then just didn't want to play that trial anymore and they got out as soon as possible.
I'm sorry you think that player owes you a good time, perhaps you'd prefer someone who doesn't give a crap about the game running around, throwing pallets to gather attention from the Killer trying to get hooked a second time? Or make just gathering up all the items from chests and dropping them in the basement? Maybe slamming lockers it get found and hooked?
If you TRY AND FORCE people to keep playing a round they want out of, they will lash out.
So yeah you are right BHVR can tell who is doing it, but they would be silly to do it.
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-Tries to suicide for being found first-
-Accidentally Kobes-
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I think there are times when it’s warranted. I rarely do this but there are situations where I have particularly when the lagging is god awful. I recently suicided in amatch where the lagging was so bad I had to run to a gen 5 times before I didn’t get sent backwards then during the chase I was sent right back in front of the killer after gaining good distance. That’s just a waste of time and I’m not sticking around for that.
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They care because they are trying to disincentivize leaving a match early. Otherwise, what is the point in punishing DCing?
If they lash out by griefing, there is a simple solution.
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I like the idea of making struggling automatic so people can't just suicide on hook, it would at least save some greifing from happening.
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Just had a similar case where 2 injured survivors were working on the boat gen on pale rose...which was the LAST gen. Went upstairs, got rubberbanded back downstairs...Went upstairs again....gen finishes in my face...FFFFUUUUUUUU
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You would assume incorrectly. You are given the option to try and unhook yourself or let someone else do it. What if you're just a person who wants to try and kobe? What if your grinding for the achievement for hopping of the hook on your own? You're gonna go through a lot of games until you get the right roll of the dice.
Honestly, I think it is much better for someone to suicide on hook than just dc. At the very least they hopefully have done something before going down or ran the killer long enough for us to at least get gens going a decent bit. As to killers having to suffer through games? You don't. Just go afk or dc. They can't get anything out of you if you just don't play into their garbage.
Life is too short to waste any energy on garbage survivors or garbage killers in a trial. If devs wanted to they could solve a lot of these problems, but they aren't priority unless the game starts to suffer on a large scale. If enough start dcing or afking in the basement then eventually something will happen.
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The Killer dcing caused loss of offerings, things people spend points to aquire, and survivors dcing, robs the Killer of earning points. Both of these had bad impact on actual player economy.
A survivor dying on the hook early, at least awards the Killer the points they earned.
Trust me friend , punishing Dc's is the end of it, they will not chase that any further.
How do you qualify how serious a player is taking the game? What if the player only wants to stealth around the map and not contribute to the game at all? Are they still playing? And so what if they are, isn't that kind of play legit? Some people like to play stealth challenges where they don't see the killer at all and escape through the hatch, are those kind of games going to now be FORBIDDEN?
And what if the player is just plain bad at the game it it appears they are throwing, when in fact they just suck?
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I imagine people trying to do such things would use builds dedicated to such, which can easily be noticed and dismissed as such. So unless you're going to start running Slippery Meat and Luck offerings repeatedly to mask Hook Suicides, that isn't something I'd worry about.
A Survivor deliberately dying early denies Killer points and emblem progress, and it actively lowers the Survivors' chances of winning by a lot. It is not without consequences. Not by a long shot.
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I used to try and kobe with running any of the kobe perks all the time. No one is really going to monitor such a mundane occurrence with punishment in mind. If they did that they could just disable the attempt prompt unless you had the proper perks.
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Never said it didn't impact the game.
I only said that as long as people use the mechanincs of the game to leave a match (ie, via self dehooking, and struggle) then there is nothing to punish. They played by the rules and got out. Sure it leaves an easier Killer game and a much harder Survivor game but that's how it is sometimes.
You cannot force someone to continue playing a round to the best of their ability, if they just want to get out. Everyones ability differs and its very tough to compare playing styles. You are asking BHVR to basically have a human double check all the data points and decide if someone was throwing the game or not. That is a tall order. And then there is always the false positives and the appeal process, again a nightmare.
All you can hope is that BHVR then looks at the under lying causes of people self removing. Whether it be unfun Killers/Maps/Tactics/Perks, and attempt to fix it on that level.
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Were you repeatedly dying on the same hook after attempting to kobe?
You certainly implied the impact was minimal.
If you can punish someone who repeatedly wastes pallets to grief teammates, you can punish someone who excessively hook suicides.
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I did. It was the fastest way to get into another game to try and kobe again. At the time I thought I would just plow through the achievements. I'm not gonna say it was the greatest thing to do, but I also didn't have a particularly strong attachment to the game at the either.
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That in my eyes is not a good look, then.
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I never implied any such thing.
I only said people leaving by legit game mechanincs, has NO ROOM for punishment.
You mistook pallet dropping for griefing, its not, its a way for the Survivor to alert the Killer so they can be rehooked and killed if they are forced to continue playing.
Drop a pallet and jump over it until desired effect happens.
So hook suicides are legit game play, what are you not getting here?
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I had this happen to me once. I hadn't been found all game, and then it was me and 1 other survivor. I was gonna die on hook so they could hatch but instead I kobed. 🤣
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"The Killer dcing caused loss of offerings, things people spend points to aquire, and survivors dcing, robs the Killer of earning points. Both of these had bad impact on actual player economy.
A survivor dying on the hook early, at least awards the Killer the points they earned."
You most certainly did.
Also, I am talking about punishing actual griefers who just run around dropping pallets for the lulz.
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Never said I didn't have skeletons in the closet. If it helps that was literal years ago. Now I don't even bother trying to kobe. Rarely have ever just suicided because of what was happening in game. I remember doing it a couple of times because I was on a team where someone was following me around throwing down palettes and pulling on lockers I was hiding in or purposely blowing up a gen repeatedly as long as I was touching it. You know, typical antisocial meathead antics that I just refused to put up with.
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You've strayed from my original point, and have moved on to my supporting points.
So I'll just take that as you seeing my point.
I highly doubt there will be any PUNISHMENTS given out once, people move from DCing to hook suicide.
I maintain that people will always take the "L" when they believe that the trial is going to be an unfun crap show.
The devs need to look more into why people Dc/Hook Suicide, and fix it at that level, not just punishing this and that game behaviour because some people see it as unfair that their trial just got harder.
Time will tell, but I'm pretty confident I'm right.
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I couldn’t agree more. I don’t get pissed at others when they suicide. It’s their prerogative. Sometimes I want go for a unhook usually cause of an offering and then I’ll struggle and there are times when I don’t but that depends on a lot of factors. Sometimes on the 2nd hook, I don’t feel like struggling. Sometimes my hands get so sweaty that I have issues pressing the x button repeatedly. I’ve had a lot of instances where my finger slips for that one millisecond. I wish they’d make it so you just hold down the x button instead. It’s just a game and I’m fine as long as people don’t cheat or are toxic but I don’t consider suicides toxic. Just my opinion.
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I mean, it's hindsight and in the past, so c'est la vie, but I'd say that you were actively creating a negative experience for your teammates.
No I haven't? Your point is that you can't punish people for hook suiciding because they are using legitimate game mechanics to do so, but you can punish someone who is legitimately dropping pallets left and right just to be a troll to their teammates, which is using legitimate methods. So that argument doesn't really work for me.
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OK I'll give you that pallet misuse can be trolly. But there is always just jumping in and out of a locker to get noticed. And there is always just running around and looking for the Killer.
Gets the job done without using up resources.
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The problem is that you can't look to every reason people DC/Hook Suicide:
People will DC/Suicide for any of these:
Don't like the Killer
Don't like Killer's perks
Don't like the map
Don't like being found first
Don't like being 'camped' or 'tunneled' even if they are not camped or tunneled.
Don't like being pulled off a gen
etc. etc.
As long as they have a 'legitimate' way out (Hook suicide); they will do it. For all the same reasons they DC. And almost every reason is self-entitled BS and 'Well, I should not have to play a match I'm not having fun in'.
Hint: Yes you should. It's called good sportsmanship. You stay to help your team. Do you see quarterbacks in football stomp off the field & refuse to play if they get sacked too much? No? Because they have sportsmanship.
When you log in, you're making a commitment to NOT be a complete douche. This means:
No cheating. No griefing. No abusing glitches.
NO RUINING OTHER HUMAN GOD DAMN BEINGS FUN. THIS INCLUDES NOT DISCONNECTING/SUICIDING LIKE SCRUB BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE <X> KILLER/PERK/MAP
So yes, you CAN force people to play a match, because they don't matter more than the OTHER 4 people playing, and they should not play AT ALL if they are going to act like a toddler and ragequit, regardless of HOW they ragequit.
People who ragequit, be it DC or hook-suicide, are nothing more than selfish, entitled a-holes who DO NOT CARE about anyone by themselves. They are NOT the type of people who should be defended or encouraged in any way, shape or form. They are the type of people who RUIN GAMES for everyone else.
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I'm not talking about ways to get the Killer's attention without using up pallets. I'm talking about people who knowingly and deliberately screw their team over by using up pallets.
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Let me ask you this then: When the devs incorporate the husk system, what reason would there be to punish Survivors who DC?
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You and I went over this in another post about the same topic. I'm almost sure it's a direct copy paste, but don't care to check on that.
DbD is not a team sport.
In the end my play style will reflect MY DESIRES, whether that be , being altruistic and rescuing people even when I leave myself dead on the hook, or the opposite where I wait out your last hook so I can get the hatch.
And again no amount of name calling and shaming on your part has any effect on how a person likes to play.
And one might say that you expecting someone to play how YOU want them to play, makes you the entitled one.
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Yeah but DC punishments are coming.
After that, only Survivors are allowed to ragequit. Killers will be expected to play every match from start to finish, even if they are bullied nonstop by SWF-squads and trolling memelords.
But people will STILL sit here and say it's fine for Survivors to leave early via hook suicide while Killers are screwed.
Now, I think DCing & hook suicides are only for toddlers who can't play a game like a real adult, but if they are actually never going to look at hook suicides, then Killers should be able to DC without punishment for all the same reasons (Don't like a survivor's perks/the map/a playstyle/etc.)
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And I agreed that using up pallets can be bad. That's why I made the same argument about getting found using lockers, that don't use up a resource.
Some people can't take "you're right" for an answer.
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It's not just about using up pallets being bad. It's about being punished for technically using a legitimate game mechanic. The way I see it, if that can apply to repeated trolling/griefing through wasting pallets, it can also apply to excessive hook suicides.
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As much as I dislike when people kill themselves on first hook, I do think it's warranted under some conditions, but only after giving your team time to react. As a solo player (swf is annoying and a lot less fun on both sides imo) I occasionally have teammates who don't care whether or not I live. If I can see all of my living teammates' auras across the map and they quite obviously aren't going to come save me from the hook and go from one gen to the next instead, then yeah I'm gonna use my escape attempts and die. Otherwise I really am just wasting my time waiting for nothing. Maybe if struggling granted more bloodpoints I'd struggle and give them more time, but when they're not reacting to me on the hook then there's just no point
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Yea, no. I don't get payed as much as a quarterback to play this video game.
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They CAN but WONT.
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This is a problem that any cure would be worse than the disease. Just finish the match to the best of your abilities and move on.
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"Can" in this case means "is a punishable offense."
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That's not what I said. Who knows what BHVR will ultimately find punishable. But right now there exists a mechanic where if I no longer wish to play the trial. I can without breaking any game mechanics choose to leave early without wasting any more time in a match I deem unfun.
CURRENTLY there is no punishment for using that route out. If they change that then yeah it can be punished.
My point is that BHVR in my opinion will never chase that kind of behaviour. The are punishing Dc's and I do not see it going any further.
You obviously feel that another human should be forced to continue to play to make YOU happy.
And they better play hard too, no just going with the flow.
I've played where people die quickly and I agree , the game gets harder and most of the time unless the Killer goes easy, it ends in my death. So I know what you are saying.
My point is that those people whether they suicided or just failed to struggle accidentally, played the game the way they like, and I don't feel they should be punished for making my game a bit harder.
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Just checked the report section. "Purposefully losing the game" is a reportable offense under "Unsportsmanlike conduct."
SO...........
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They should change the 2nd hook phase from a button mash to just another waiting game like the 1st phase. Keep the entity attack animation, but don't make people either button mash or not press anything to suicide.
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100% agreed with you.
Sometimes my finger slips. Sometimes my hands are sweaty. Sometimes my teammates are knuckleheads and crouch around and I just wanna move onto the next match. Sometimes it’s just me and one other survivor and I let them get the hatch. The game lags out and I die.
One time I had an old controller and it would just not recognize my inputs so I died A LOT on second hook because of it, so I had to get a new controller.
What if the player is new and legit doesn’t know NOT to struggle?
There is way too many variables to decipher a “hook suicide” from accidents or a new player.
You will never be able to force players to play something they don’t want to. If hook suicides are punished they’ll just AFK against Iridescent Head or something really overwhelmingly powerful. It won’t be fun for anybody.
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