How to get rid of a lot of current issues in DBD.
Camping is a severe annoyance, it ruins new players' experiences, and pushes them away. Tunneling doesn't do this as much because by the time they get into the scenarios where tunneling takes place, they've dedicated a long amount of time to it, but it's just as infuriating as camping. Being farmed off the hook is annoying as well. Ebony Moris are completely busted and need to be removed from the game, people who only or mostly play killers complain about decisive strike(despite it actually allowing survivors to get back in the game after being tunneled) or Borrowed Time, or Unbreakable, etc etc etc.
So...my suggestion is simple. Remove hook stages. Make it harder to be downed for survivors to compensate, and easier to get away, but make the first hook spell your death. There, no more camping, no more tunneling(I suppose tunnel vision could be a thing now though), no more farming off the hook, no more decisive strike(as it is currently anyways), no more Borrowed Time(again, as is currently), Unbreakable would become niche, so that completely busted Unbreakable can be thrown in the trash bin(😋), no more ebony moris as they are currently(now it wouldn't matter if the killer brought an ebony, you'd be dead either way under most circumstances). Just make it easier to not be downed and to get away from the killer, remove hook stages completely, and change certain perks to compensate.
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So basically overhaul the main mechanic of the game.
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I mean, killers want people to die, survivors want to not be camped and tunneled into oblivion, and most people aside from very biased people think ebony moris are busted. This suggestion gets rid of all of that, and it's not too huge of a change. It's dropping hook stages, and adding pallets/LOS breakers, and maybe darkening the maps. Most perks only need small changes, sabo could come back(permanent hook breaks, because one hook is death). Borrowed Time might be the only perk that actually needs an overhaul. DS could just work from being picked up.
I wouldn't say it's too big of a difference from the EGC patch. Sounds like a small price to pay for a large amount of complaints disappearing.
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Why would you put a Reverse Bear Trap on someone?
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I actually believe the state of the game is fine. The only thing that needs to be player side is skill checks. I have games where they are actually a manageable pace and then games where they are unusually fast.
Camping is a play style that is unfortunately part of the game. The best thing you can do to improve the knowledge of those that play. I.E if the Killer is camping gen rush.
Mainly the thing that players need to understand is that dying is okay not all games are the same.
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Dude, you're changing everything related to hooks! That means perks and overall how the game functions. (with some killers mainly as TAG mentioned RBT)
How is that the same size as EGC?
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Dying is fine, but being forced to sit out 2 full minutes while not playing just so the rest of your team can gen rush with the likely chance due to all the slowdown perks available now that they will get a second person just so that you can die is not. As i've said in the past. This is basically the same behavior as old school shooting games where people would stand at your spawn point and shoot you over and over and over again upon spawning, which is a big reason other games put systems in place to prevent that.
Anyways, it's no secret that most people who only play killer want survivors to die faster. This solves that problem as well.
I mean that doesn't sound like a huge change. Just have survivors start with RBTs on and have them activate at random times upon completion of gens. You already know who you're facing when it's Pig anyways.
Everything related to hooks, so... removing hook stages, and changing like 3 perks is suddenly a major change? I already gave a suggestion for Pig upon replying to TAG. Sure there are some things that could require major change(mainly balance of killers. Trapper might become too powerful because of how easy it is to get a survivor once they are in a trap), but those might not all come in the same patch anyways if this were to happen.
The most effort this would require is some additional pallets and LOS blockers on maps, and darkening the maps so hiding is viable.
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That seems like it just makes Pig gameplay less interesting. Not sure that would be worth the mechanic changes you propose to me.
Plus, as far as perks that need to be completely changed:
Make Your Choice
Decisive Strike
Borrowed Time
Devour Hope
Babysitter
We'll Make It
Slippery Meat
Breakdown
Kindred
Furtive Chase
Camaraderie
Second Wind
Monstrous Shrine
Probably Huntress Lullaby because it now sucks
Probably Dying Light because it now sucks
Probably Pop Goes the Weasel because it now sucks
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This would make Killers tunnel MORE. Why? Because if it is harder for survivors to be downed a Killer isn't going to want a survivor to go and get healed.
Once the survivor does go down then the Killer will have to deal with sabo'd hooks, flashlights, pallets and bodyblocking (that would become extremely broken) but the Killer will just tunnel the one survivor until they get the hook/kill. Which means that if someone gets REALLY good at chases then they can run the Killer around basically forever.
Side: Moris.
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And then the instant death after the chase will be unfun next. So the killer will get the option to recycle survivors.
But because killers dont recycle enough, it will be made mandatory to recycle survivors twice.
Happened in Deathgarden. Should never be considered here.
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How would pig gameplay be less interesting? All that change does is save you time putting traps on. If people would take traps off in the beginning of the game before they do gens, you could make rule set no 2 base kit like people wanted. If anything as a survivor it'd feel more interesting because you'd never know when your trap would activate. Could be on the first gen, could be on the last.
As for the perks, I'll admit I didn't think of all the hook related perks there were because so few are used( aside from DS, We'll Make It, Borrowed Time, and Dying Light). Anyways most of them could just be small changes.
DS could work once you're picked up the first time.
I can't think of anything for Borrowed Time atm but there'd be no more camping so perhaps it could be more for the user than someone you're helping, or it could be like a drive by instaheal one time per person by healing one health state when in dying and giving them endurance, I dunno.
Make Your Choice could give everyone else exposed when someone takes a protection hit.
Devour Hope could make your movement speed increase for each person you kill, or just lower the stack requirements.
Babysitter could work off protection hits as well.
We'll Make It could increase healing speed without med kits for every person killed.
Slippery Meat would be fine, it still has the use against bear traps. Though maybe a buff would be fine.
Breakdown the only thing I can think of is breaking all hooks within the area you were hooked. Sort of a team play perk.
Kindred is a hard one. Perhaps while in a chase everyone's aura is revealed to each other.
Furtive Chase could keep the obsession always alive so that perks like Dark Devotion never go away. Perhaps once the obsession dies, a random other target becomes the obsession. Killing an obsession gives stacks for the TR reduction.
I would have said Camaraderie could have increased wiggle timer but another perk is gonna do that soon so I dunno. Perhaps increase heal speed on nearby slugs. The only problem is slugs would become less probable due to only one hook state but sabotage would be coming back so it might still occur.
Second wind could just remove the on hook application. We're making it harder to be downed anyways with these changes because one hook = death so I don't see a problem with buffing it.
Monstrous Shrine could replace BBQ in its BP generation, or just grant some as well for hooking people in the basement.
Huntress Lullaby could give stacks faster, or something. Same for Dying Light, but then again Dying Light is kinda busted when it gives enough stacks and with only one life maybe it'd be fine the way it was.
Pop could regress an entire generator.
It's already an instant death when you get hit by a camper or a tunneler, so what's the difference? I'd rather move on to my next game and make surviving last longer so that bloodpoints aren't so atrociously low when you do get someone who would play like that. I dunno what you mean by recycle, but I'd much rather have a one hook death than sit on a hook for 2 minutes while my teammates do gens. I'd also much rather not have a killer able to immediately chase me right off my hook with an ebony mori. At least moris won't feel like the game is impossible with this change.
No one said to make it impossible to be caught, just harder to be caught to compensate for only having one life. I also mentioned to make maps darker again and add more LOS blockers so that you could LOSE the killer, not only pallet loop them all day.
Post edited by Atrushan88 on0 -
Here's the thing: Traps are a one-and-done deal. Once it is used up, it is gone. If you make it so everyone just starts with a Trap, once people take it off (which they will, because otherwise that would be horrifically OP), all you have is M1 and crouching/ambushing. This could happen currently, but at least for that to happen, either you need to exhaust all your Traps or the game needs to be almost over (which is its own problem, but I digress). Just having the Traps start on everyone to adjust things to "one hook = death" is removing some decision making: Do I use the Traps ASAP or spread them out over the course of the game or save them until close to the end for an Endgame strat (which is now much weaker due to the EGC nerf, but again, I digress)? Do I trap the same person twice or leave them be before 2nd hook because I am sure I can catch them easily afterward? Once someone is Trapped, do I find them at a Box or leave them be so I can better protect Gens? It just becomes "Everyone is Trapped, so now I just play as though I am Wraith 2: Electric Boogaloo." Now, because all that is still necessary to make the one-hook change work, it kinda just means to me that the one-hook change is just not a good idea.
DS would be absurdly powerful if you are also intending to make it harder to down someone to compensate for one-hook deaths. Stronger than old DS, I would say.
Make Your Choice would make little sense both mechanically and flavorfully; if a protection hit gives everyone exposed, aren't you just better off still going for the person you are already in a chase with? Plus, the point of Make Your Choice is that the other people are supposed to make a decision (do I unhook and risk Exposed), not the Pig.
Devour Hope seems like it'd be OP as a non-Hex perk and crappy as a Hex perk (since it does nothing until you kill someone, it would be easy to just knock out the Totem before that happens).
Babysitter seems like complete garbage
We'll Make It seems like garbage
Slippery Meat seems like super garbage
Breakdown seems like garbage (because either it does nothing useful, or, if it actually becomes good enough to run, Killers just start running Hangman's Trick)
Kindred wouldn't work as three separate tiered perks as you have described it.
Furtive Chase seems pointless with the existence of Nemesis. Also, Rancor.
Camaraderie seems bad for the reason you stated. I wouldn't expect sabotaging to come back as long as Hangman's Trick is a thing.
How would that work if you are already at full health? Does the healing timer when you go from healthy to injured? That would basically just make it an always on-hand Syringe, which would be crazy. Does it go to waste if you are at full health? That would make it super clunky.
Monstrous Shrine...meh, that perk needs to be changed anyways.
How would you "get stacks faster"?
Pop would probably singlehandedly win the Killer the game if it regressed a whole Generator.
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As I said. Rule set number 2 could be base. The trap could just activate at a random number of generators for each survivor. You wouldn't have to worry about trapping someone twice because they'd be dead on first hook, unless you trapped them then got DSed, which I would imagine would be fine to allow to be done.
DS could be another part of making it harder to be caught. Not OP but just good enough to possibly get you out of a bad situation for a bit like now.
I guess you have a point about MYC, but it's pretty similar to what it is like now. Make Your Choice as is doesn't REALLY give you a choice. I guess you could farm your buddy but killers already say that's what causes tunneling(which it only does sometimes, other times the killer just wants to do it). With my MYC you have an option, you can leave the person who just took a protection hit for the survivor you were chasing for the possibly healthy one, or you could take out the one who took the protection hit. Obviously the healthy one would be the better option. If both are injured then it doesn't matter. I occasionally take protection hits for healthy teammates to give them breathing room sometimes, so I think it has its uses.
Devour Hope is already super rare and only lasts if it's well hidden or survivors don't do totems. How would it be any different?
Babysitter is already complete garbage. I feel like this one is better than current. At least it's like "Hey, chase me, not them" without them already being long gone anyways. I doubt anyone runs it as is.
We'll make it increasing base healing speed as people die? How is that garbage? It could even work with self care.
Slippery Meat is already super garbage. Only difference is Trapper might be one of the best killers with this change so it might be more useful.
Breakdown - Permanent hook removal, not temporary.
Kindred - Distance? Just have it like tier 2 bond, tier 3 bond, Empathy 3?
Furtive Chase - does Nemesis make people the obsession after the obsession has died? If so rip, but I guess yeah if that's the case Nemesis pretty much will do that somewhat better? 45 second oblivious right? Still if so Furtive Chase will be pointless when Nemesis goes live either way. They're almost the same perk but Nemesis is better. If it works like that anyways. As for Rancor, that only pops up after the gates are powered, so I think you'd still only be able to kill one. Someone could probably open the exit gates by the time you killed them and have time to get everyone out too.
I added that sabotaging COULD come back in my suggestion as part of the whole making it harder to die thing. Meaning permanent broken hooks, or at least significantly longer broken hooks. Maybe even tied to saboteur itself.
Basically whenever you heal the full health state of a survivor, you gain second wind, if injured it activates. Kinda like Inner Strength but you're able to move and after you heal someone else instead of break a totem. If it needs a limiter you could be broken any time you are injured and don't have it active, meaning the only way to gain health states is by healing others.
Basically more stacks per kill, or less required stacks overall.
I don't think it would. One person killed to regress one generator when it's harder to catch survivors because you can once hook them, with the chance of no generators being almost finished. If it would then they could nerf it to 50% of total progress. Or less if it needs it. Game slowing perks are already strong so honestly it may not even need a change at all.
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