Devs, according to your statistics: You affirm that SWF and more...
Okay, I've seen enough, now I would like the devs to tell us one day how those games take place.
The killers who face those SWFs, how do these killers play? They play legally (no focus, no camping) and finally kill 2 of 4 or those killers who face those SWF kill 2 of that premade by camping and focus ? They are 2 very different things.
I want tests, and I think that your community wants to know more about your game, you cannot say that SWFs are not "OP" because with statistics you cannot say that they are not. There are many factors as I mentioned above:
- Does the killer play legally? (No camping, no focus)
If the killer really plays legally and kills 2 survivors of 4, more factors should be looked at.
- What players do you face? Are they good players of that premade? Normally the premades usually put in, introduce players in their teams of very few hours.
Therefore, according to the devs, if a killer kills on average 2 and escapes 2 it is that "the game, or the killer is balanced," tell me, which players are the ones facing that killer, also tell me on which map they have played , you cannot affirm:
- THE PREMADES ARE NOT "OP"
- SOME "KILLERS" ARE "OP" BECAUSE THEY KILL MORE THAN 2.
Behind every action there must be a number of factors, I hope you understand me.
Comments
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Um, camping and tunneling are legit strategies, I don’t know where you got the idea that they’re illegal. Just because it makes survivors butthurt doesn’t make it illegal.
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You shouldn't call out the Devs like that man...
BTW, the statistics that have been revealed before show the survival rate depending on the number of persons in the SWF... Check them out
Balance is subjective, a "win" is subjective too, you can call a "we all survived" as a win, or maybe a "2 of us survived", but I have to state that "my whole SWF died but I double pipped and ran the killer for 3 gens" is a win for me so... Even if I died in order to let someone live and escape is a win for me
Like @AvisDeene said, it's funny how you used the term "legally" when camping and tunneling is a valid low BP strategy, non bannable nor reportable BTW...
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There are a number of factors. This is why we suggested you don't draw any conclusions based on the stats; it's just an average. It doesn't mean that you don't get a team so sweaty you'd think they've been working out for the past six hours, it just means that on average you'll get about two kills against a 4-man group.
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Can you please give us the escape rate of 4 man SWF in red ranks. Everyone knows that the Brown - Purple ranks aren't the issue, its red ranks that are the problem.
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Also at any rank the only reason killers manage an average of 2 kills is because survivors in SWF get way too altruistic and fall victim to things like end game collapse and camping the last person you hook in the game. They walk all over people more during the actual game and make the match frustrating, even if you get 2 dumb not really earned kills the whole match wasn't exactly enjoyable.
Haha I can picture it already you tunnel the person who was teabagging and they die "YOU CAN'T DO THAT; THAT'S...THAT'S...ILLEGAL! THE POLICE ARE GONNA ARREST u ima call the COPS and ur gonna get in TROUBLE!"
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How about let’s also discuss the skill of the player playing the role of a killer.
I play in red ranks and I often get good and bad of the SAME killer. Hillbillies who know when to chainsaw and the ones who don’t. Wraiths who stomp on a team even when they didn’t have ruin, and Wraiths who kept tunneling and forgetting to apply pressure and as a result lose the game.
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We could look into that in the future. In the meantime, we did release some stats this morning: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/106566/
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Yup the moment I read "They play legally" I had to stop reading. I mean this this doesn't surprise me as we see far to many toxic terms/people but it really ruins credibility at that point.
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thanks for the update!
For the next one I would like to see something solely dedicated to 4 man swf groups (all ranks and red ranks):
- mean game duration against different maps
- survival rate against different killers
- 10 most used perks (in % to how many survivors run it)
- % of games with 0 kills against killers
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Damn my boy Freddy is over performing.
Rip
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So you consider that when because example:
Situation 1
A Wraith against 4 players plays without focusing, camp and kills only 1.
Situation 2
A Wraith against 4 players (SWF) plays by focusing, camper and finally by performing that action kills 3, the other one escapes.
Explain to me ..
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What are you trying to point out? If it gets more kills without hacking it's fair game.
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If a Wraith killer camps and only gets 1 killer, then he will get minimal blood points.
If a SWF loses 3 survivors, then they weren’t a very good SWF team.
The strategy against a camper is to rush generators. That puts pressure on the Killer to stop camping. If the survivors are too stupid to rush the gens, that’s on them.
You not liking or enjoying camping doesn’t make it wrong.
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Balance is... not subjective in any sense of the word. What are you talking about?
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Ahm... What is balance in DBD? A 2k? Cause you got 50% of your objective right? But for survivor? A 2k too? Nah, when in SWF yes, but when in solo, if I got killed at the beggining of the game even if at the end the killer only got a 2k then no dude... The killer wasn't "balanced", I couldn't even achieve 50% of my objective(s)
How about pipping? In order to black pip you have to have contributed in 50% of basic game objectives participating in all areas, but guess what? I've been in games with a 4k where 2 survivors got 2 pips and I de pipped as the killer...
How do you want the "balance"? towards kills and escapes? Pipping? Blood points? Perception of a fair game for both sides?
"Balance" is a complex concept not reduced to mere numbers, people's experience and perception is what make's this "subjective". When in videogames, stats are not the only thing we should base our arguments on, it's a person behind the screen, not an NPC or a CI killer in this game.
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"They play legally (no focus, no camping)"
Just had to point this out because it made me laugh.
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Isn't this exactly what you guys did when you nerfed nurse and Spirit... Using stats?
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Hmmm, you defend that a killer who is a camper and focuses on the survivors so that in the statistics it appears that for example demogorgon kills 2 and escapes 2, does that seem ok? What would happen if this demogorgon instead of being a camper and a "focuser in the game, played without being a camper or focus? Would the same happen? Could he kill 2?
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Remember to take into account that average of 2 kills per match doesnt mean you always do at least 2 kills per match. You can make none for 2 games in a row and then 4k for 2 games in a row.
sweaty and skilled swf is not the staple.
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Well, your comment made me sad, because I thought a game is about fun, not about ruin other ones fun. Camping and tunneling could be "legal" because devs fault, but please, don't say as it was something "normal" or fair...
Maybe someday we'll reach a day devs remove these boring behaviours and we start to discuss about how to balance the game without thinking on killers forced to camp or focus or slug to kill someone.
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sweaty and skilled nurses weren't the staple either but they hammered her down didn't they?
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:/
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Nurse was extremely rewarding without even being good with her, and the addons basically capitalized on that even more.
as were insta heals crazy broken so nurse was nerfed too, and tbh nurse is still a strong killer while survs addons are basically useless.
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could say that about swf too, gens aren't that hard, if you want to simplify everything
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I think it's was kinda obvious that OP was using 'illegal' as a general statement for strats that's are unfun and looked down upon by the majority of the playerbase.
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Are matches with dc's included in these statistics?
(Sorry if this got already asked somewhere.)
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Devs can't control the behaviour of their players, no matter what name the company they work for has.
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They said in another thread that games with DCs in them are completely ignored for the statistics. It's in one of the threads about the stats somewhere.
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Me: camps a sandbagging player who t-bags and is an arse to everyone around.
The Police: You have the right to remain silence yadayada you're under arrest.
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Balance in this game is assuring the amount of effort one side exerts is equal to the amount of effort the other side has to exert to achieve anything in the game.
In DbD, the amount of effort the Killer has to exert by default is far greater than what the survivor team as a whole needs to bring out.
Its makes balancing difficult; it doesn't make it a mere subject of opinion. The amount of effort survivors have to put in steadily decreases with the open communications of SWF teams. Whereas the amount of effort the Killer has to put in against survivors steadily increases to the point where an impossible amount of efficiency is required for a killer to stay on top of a SWF team who is trying hard.
It may be impossible to achieve perfect balance as opposed to games where its essentially mirror matching teams, like FPS shooters. But that doesn't mean the mere act of balancing is a subject of opinion and nothing else; there is actual progress to be made in balancing. We need to have a discussion to fill in the gaps of our limited knowledge on what makes the game balanced, but that's a matter of attempting to manifest a form of balance; it's not a subjective form where every suggestion is valid simply because its an opinion that's stated.
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Thank you!
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Thats why you have slowdown perks.
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Can you please post solo-survivor escape rates too? Many survivors play solo and it's interesting to compare SWF vs solo performance.
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Not all swf groups are good and sweaty players. Both of my swf groups are trash. Of the three I've had only one was actually sweaty and we generally only won because the one guy would piss off the killer and he wouldn't give up chasing him, but we also had a thousand pallets in the game at that time.
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My cousin got arrested last month for camping. His trial starts this week and his lawyer said he might get the death penalty. Pray for him.
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They are legit strategies, but they are not fun strategies. I know you don't have to care about the others fun, but there must be a reason for the "did you have fun" election on PS4.
I may depend on how you Identify in this game and if you play both sides
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well, at least this stats are usefull to know how reliable is a camper killer to kill... yes, talking about hag.
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Not every match will be fun for every player. I used to exclusively play survivor, but when I got my Blendette to level 50 at prestige II, I dipped my toes in to the killers side. And yes, I can see how camping is not fun, but it is not fun when survivors gen rush, run loops across the whole map, or just hide for the entire map.
The fact of the matter is, rather than accepting that a player is going to lose, they would rather come to the forums and whine about it in hopes the devs would change the game to make it easier and more fun for them, but more boring and difficult to their opponents.
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It's funny, I was the opposite. Made to Rank 1 as killer and wanted to get good at survivor seeing how good many players were.
Looping was always frustrating as killer, that was what made me want to achieve said skill. I am bad at it. But it is a survival tactic, which without the survivor will go down in seconds and killer wins.
Gen rushing is up to us as killers to control or combat. Using strategies and viable perks we have a lot of say in survivors success at gen rushing, which is really just doing a genny and not being interrupted by killer.
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Also isn't that what is fun about killer, the thrill of the chase, the battle of 4 vs 1. Just camping a guy to death, not as hard nor exciting
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When it comes to being looped, the smartest thing to do is to break off and go after the weakest link. The faster a killer gets rid of the poor loopers, the easier it will be for them to get the pro looper.
Sure, it sucks for the weak link, but hey, I want some kills and blood points.
As far as “fun” goes, it’s very subjective. Some players have fun tunneling, some have fun camping, others have fun chasing. I have fun tunneling and camping a flashlight clicking, t-bagging looper than winning the match. If I can’t catch them, I’ll resort to camping until I catch the t-bagger. Even more fun is when they make a stupid mistake and die first. Then I’ll just harass their teammates a bit and let them win. I’ll down them, smack the gen while holding them and then drop them to give them the message that I want them to do gens.
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I think everyone here has accepted that the Devs of DBD are just simply incompetent at their jobs, they have a loose and inconsistent definition of balance that seems to change with the wind ("the wind" being whatever the survivor player base seem to be crying about this time)
But it is to be expected. For most of them, this would be their first some-what big game project so of course they are going to make mistakes. We all do when we are learning. What annoys me is their refusal to improve upon these mistakes and learn from them so they dont happen again.
For example, look at balancing. They seem to think that when balancing their game, its all about the killers and survivors. The 2 points of the game that a player can control, they change and tinker these roles to balance, when they should be looking at the overall environment and gameplay aspects of the game ie can be add something other than the windows, pallets or totems. They cant setup the servers to work correctly and have made several failed attempts over the past 9 months to get it working with the only visible output being a malfunctioning matchmaking system.
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I can understand that when dealing with toxic players. And fun is subjective. Good points.
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