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Question For Skilled Survivor Players
Let preface this by saying I quite enjoy playing survivor despite how infuriating it can be sometimes. And I would would consider myself above average in terms of skill level. But I feel like I've been stagnate in my performance for a while now.
My question: How do you counter god tier Hillbillies and Huntresses (If that's even possible)? I realize the map being played on is very important here, but just assume the map is something average like Suffocation Pit or Gas Heaven. Specifically, how do you utilize normal tiles in order to keep these killers at bay for a respectable amount of time?
From my experience, it's very hard to last more than 30 seconds in most chases. I would like to improve that if possible.
Basically, just tell me the normal strategies you use when playing against these killers. Give me the play-by-plays if possible.
Thanks.
Normally, I would get better on my own. But these killers are pretty rare, so it's hard to get valuable experience.
Answers
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Huntresses tend to respect pallets to hell until they run out of hatchets; work out how many she has and just run throguh the pallet until shes used them all and only then drop the pallet on her bloodlust tier 3'd ass.
Billies like to mindgame with their chainsaw on pallets to force early pallet drops; you need to learn the individual billy player's playstyle in that regard, as some will never rev, while others always do to scare you into using it. Often a revving billy won't expect you to keep going (especially if you switch it up) and so will drop it anyway, giving you another loop.
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You don't counter god-tier Billies. A God-tier Billy will come and breathe down your neck, rev their chainsaw and down you no matter what you do. The only thing you can do is... not let him get close. That's pretty much impossible in a lot of situations, though.
If you do get a Billy to a loop, @SunderMun is spot on in his analogy. Some Billies will run the loop like a standard M1 killer, others will try to fake you out by revving their chainsaw but not actually using it in an attempt to scare you and make you drop the pallet. A really good Billy will curve the corners with their chainsaw, though. If they do this, it's up to you as a survivor to realise when you can't run another loop and drop the pallet a bit earlier.
If Billy catches you in any palletless spot, or a spot where no good window is handy, you're dead.
For Huntress, you really have to screw with her mind. The first step is to figure out how she plays, and if she does the same thing every time or if she changes it up. Most Huntresses will start charging a hatchet when you approach a window / pallet, as a survivor in a vault / drop animation is the easiest target to hit. You can fake these throws out by simply pretending to vault the window, but not actually doing so, and by just running through the pallet.
This is where things can get tricky, as a Huntress who is close enough (especially at windows, be wary of this!) can cancel the throw and get an M1 hit in. This is less of a problem at pallets since Huntress does slow down a bit, allowing you to gain enough distance to run another loop.
Now, you need to know if Huntress is going to go for an M1 hit the next time you reach the pallet, or if she'll try another hatchet throw. Usually you can test the waters by running through the pallet, and using the small vaccuum to your advantage (yes, you can "vaccuum backwards" towards a pallet if you're close enough). If you run through the pallet, and can effectively use the vaccuum I am talking about, you can see if Huntress charges a hatchet or not. If she doesn't, drop, if she does, keep running.
Windows are your biggest weakness VS a Huntress, as here, if she's close enough, "faking a vault" will give her an M1 hit. Only vault windows if Huntress doesn't have LoS on you, is not already charging a hatchet, and as with any other killer, isn't close enough to M1 you.
In an open field, it's really just about making Huntress feel insecure. Being unpredictable is key to make her miss if she's fairly close. If she's far enough away, simply wait for her to throw and then dodge the hatchet when it's mid-air.
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Okay, so let me ask this about Billy then. Can you reliably 180 his chainsaw if you decide not to drop the pallet and continue the loop? If so, what are some tips?
Like you said, a god tier Billy will rev up the chainsaw at every loop and will either break a dropped pallet instantly or curve if the survivor continues the loop.
As for Huntress, how do you handle window mind games? I've gone against a twitch streamer several times who will play mind games at windows. Basically, when ever you loop a long wall with a window this Huntress player will attempt to coax you to go past the window for a hit. If you don't go near the window he will come around the corner with a charged hatchet and throw. Do you always have to dodge the hatchet in this scenario?
One of the reasons why Huntress can be a pain is because that hatchet hit box is bogus. She doesn't have to be accurate but can still land hits at corners.
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I’m a hilly billy god. I might be over hyping myself there, but he was my actual main for a very long time, mostly because I could utilize his ability so well. As billy I tend to try and as much pressure as possible to survivors. I will run loops if I have too but often cases I can land a chainsaw hit from behind the survivors to as far back as 10-14 meters back. A long distance chainsaw hit can be a little tricky depending on where you are. The best thing to do against billy is too keep as much distance as possible, try to have an idea of the loop you are using. Also try to play for the loop you plan to utilize to the best of your ability.
as for huntress. I wouldn’t say I’m an expert on her. I find myself sometimes not even paying attention to how many hatchets she has or just dropping a pallet in front of her while she is charging the hatchet. The best thing to do is count her hatchets, loop her till she uses them all. She is most likely to respect the heavens out of pallets and vaults if she thinks she can get you with a hatchet. I played huntress with no perks/addons/offerings a few months back and played her to rank 1. It was a hard challenge but I learned a lot because of that. Huntress can still hit you over certain tiles you wouldn’t expect but that is only if she knows how to aim her hatchets just over some of the debris on the tile (example being a debris/truck pallet loop on auto haven). I hope I helped.
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For Billy, there's no reliable way to dodge his chainsaw. Similar do dodging a regular hit, a skilled killed will hit you pretty much every time except on the very rare occasion you do manage to dodge it. If Hillbilly catches you without the protection of a pallet or window, it's pretty much over unless they screw up and miss their chainsaw, but there's no reliable way to counter it. You can try faking a movement or run sideways the second he saws, but that'll only save you a handful of times.
Huntress window mindgames are handled somewhat the same as pallet mindgames. It comes down to what window you're at, and the distance between you and the Huntress. Everything else is dependant on how the Huntress plays, and how well you can predict if she's going to try a hatchet throw or not. If she doesn't throw hatchets, you mindgame her same as any other M1 killer. If she does, it comes down to faking out the window vault to make her throw it, or just simply not vaulting the window at all. If you have any specific examples of mindgames that you want some tips on, let me know, send a video clip, or anything, and I'll see what I can tell you!
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Bait pallet vaults, window vaults, Survivors complain all the time about hitboxes yet they vault in super vulnerable spots, act like you're moving in a straight line, move last second, find close easy turn spots, play Hillbilly and Huntress, that'll help you learn to play against them.
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So there's no way to 180 the saw with enough distance if the Billy is good? Let's say i'm looping a jungle gym with the window on the long wall. I run past the pallet and the Billy is a couple meters behind (about 3/4ths of the full wall) with his saw revved. Right before I am able to get to the corner the Billy will charge at me. Are you saying there is no way to dodge in this instance?
I thought there was a trick to it because I've played with good survivors and they lasted longer than me. They must be doing something right.
As for Huntress, what some will do is go up to a window (i'm on the other side) and pull out a hatchet. I can't run past the window or I'll get hit. And if I stay on my side of the wall too long she will inch herself to the corner of the wall and be able to throw a hatchet. Do I have wait until she comes around the corner and throws or can I avoid having to dodge the hatchet by making some play?
I try not to give Huntress players clear shots because if they are good they usually don't miss.
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Most of what you'll need has already been said above.
You mostly just need to bait hatchet throws when looping around pallets against the Huntress. They always hold up a hatchet right when they're in view of the pallet, mostly because a lot of Survivors tend to just drop the pallet and get hit by the hatchet itself...
Make sure to just keep running the pallet until you're absolutely sure you need to drop it, otherwise you'll just waste it and get hit anyways.
With Billy, it's good to just associate him as any other M1 Killer. Once you do so, it's far easier to loop him around basic pallets. When being chased by him, you should always be at a pallet... if you're out in the open than your best bet is to try and bait out the chainsaw sprint to avoid it, but most of the time you'll get downed. (It mostly has to do with him being right on-top of you when he revs, so it's hard to escape.)
You can also try walking up to him while he's revving to mind-game him into backing up, than move forward to fool him into sprinting and missing.
At basic loops, he'll try to rev at a pallet to have it break instantly in the chase, make sure to not panic drop the pallet and instead just continue looping around the loop. If you get hit, it's better than wasting the pallet loop and creating deadzones with Billy...
But, most of the time they'll try and go for a cheeky chainsaw rev at the pallet, so they can break it and remove the loop all together.
This is just some basic tips though
I'm sure someone explained it better above.
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Let's say I'm playing against a Billy who revs his saw at every pallet. There are two options: I drop the pallet and it gets destroyed instantly, or I keep running around the loop but the Billy will be ready to curve and catch me.
Is there any way to dodge the saw if you have a couple meters of distance?
Because if the only thing you can do is drop the pallet and it gets shredded instantly, that seems rather questionable to me lol.
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It depends on how close he is and when he started reving his chainsaw. There are a few addons that allow him to have a shorter rev time which may affect the situation a bit. Most times weather it’s a billy or a bubba you can keep running. If what you’re looping is very “strong” than you’ll be most likely need to drop the pallet because billy will only have turn whatever direction and go straight while you’re only slight counter is stop wall hugging the loop. If it’s a short loop but still a safe pallet, for example again, the truck and the debris tiles (auto haven) than you may not have to drop the pallet but rather change your loop. If it’s a unsafe pallet, you’re better off either forcing the m1 or dropping the pallet. If you drop the pallet too soon on a unsafe pallet you may go down due to the killer just being able to hit you from either side. That’s what makes unsafe pallets useless anyway... no matter what you’ll probably get hit there. I hope I typed this all to where it makes sense :)
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Let me see if I have this straight.
For Huntress, I keep looping her until she's really close at which point I drop the pallet and take the hit.
If the loop is safe, she'll have to break the pallet, and I can then try to make it to the next loop?
Are there any dodging tips you can give or tell me about common tricks Huntress players use?
As for Billy, let's say I decide not to drop pallets at safe loops. But if I do that, god tier billies will curve around those loops and catch me. Is there any way to dodge his saw with a couple meters of distance? Because if your only options are to either drop the pallet and have it destroyed instantly, or keep looping but get chainsawed by a billy that can curve, that seems kinda ridiculous to me.
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for huntress
Well, Huntress usually will try to just throw the hatchet off the bat when she's close. Your best bet in that situation is to run side to side to avoid the hatchet throw.
Sometimes she'll also just throw the hatchet after it's fully charged, in which case you can try to dodge less and gain more distance to avoid the hit, OR you can run to a secluded loop or grass or corn to obscure her throw.
And no, you keep faking the pallet drop to continue the loop, after doing so for a bit, you can eventually throw the pallet down after she's a bit away from it. This will give you enough time to throw it down and not take a hit.
She'll also try to throw the hatch through windows and other such gaps, so don't give her a straight shot when looping her at jungle gyms or areas with low/mid walls that she can throw the hatchet over. Loops with the truck in it like Azarovs can have hatchets be thrown over, so make sure you know this if you intend to loop her there. You can try crouching really close to the truck to have the hitbox block the hatchet throw, sometimes this doesn't work though... so do it while in a chase itself to have a better chance at avoiding the hit.
for billy
Your goal is to mind-game where you'll go when he's trying to curve, loops like most of the azarov loops have bad hitboxes... so it's hard for Billies to even curve around them in-general. If it's a "god tier Billy" than they'll have less of a hard time doing so.
At this point, your goal is to actually either go in the opposite direction of the loop when they're about to curve, or leave the loop all together WITH a good amount of distance, and instead go to another loop to continue the chase.
At a loop, they'll most likely walk right up to the pallet within a M1 hit, and just rev the chainsaw and make you panic. In which case, Survivors usually throw it down and waste it all together, by doing so he'll just rev into the chainsaw sprint and destroy it... wasting the loop.
Just fake the pallet drops by slowing down at the pallet but instantly running around it again to extend the loop... doing this enough times will make Billy just M1 you, in which case just throw it down than OR when you think it's the best time to do so.
at loops like shack, it's good to know that Billy can shut down this loop by faking the chase into the shack and have you vault the window... by doing so he'll just sprint to the other side and down you.
You should try faking the vaults to waste his sprint, doing so will keep the chase going and not get you downed instantly. At loops with windows, he's fairly close than don't just vault the window off the bat, he'll most likely being revving into a sprint and down you mid-vault.
You need to mind-game window vaults and pallet throws, this will get you downed less, and have Billy resort to the M1 MORE!
again
These are basic tips, i'm not a god-tier Survivor. These are just some basic tips that usually save you from being destroyed.
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So you can avoid having to use the pallet at short loops but not long loops like jungle gyms? That's weird. I would think shorter loops are easier to curve on.
And just to be clear, how many meters do you need before you can dodge the saw? Just give a rough estimate.
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I'm afraid your tips on Huntress are not helpful. Typically, if a Huntress is close enough that's a hit.
So what I do is position myself at a loop to begin the chase.
If I don't throw down the pallet on the first loop, she's usually close enough to hit me before i can make the corner on the second loop. So i either have to try and dodge the hatchet at the corner or take the hit and throw down the pallet. But even then, a good huntress will wait to see if you dodge at the corner or not. Now I have have to dodge hatchets on my way to the second loop in order to begin the process again. Doesn't seem like good odds to me.
As for Billy, I have to wait until I see him sprint? Then I immediately curve to try and avoid the hit?
Is there even enough time to curve fast enough?
Because I've tried dodging right before the billy charges, but god tier billies are very patient and will wait to see if you try a premature curve.
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If a Huntress is close enough it honestly depends on their aim and your timing to dodge the hatchets.
I've done it plenty of times, to say it's always a hit is overestimating a players aim. Not every Huntress or Billy is "God Tier" so they won't automatically destroy you in every chase.
This is for standard to pro-ish Huntresses/Billys. If you face a pro Billy or Huntress than you'll most likely get downed because they know every trick in the book. The idea isn't to loop them for 5 generators though, it's to waste enough of their time.
What I describe for Huntress is the best I can give.
As for Billy, you don't turn right when he Sprints, that requires insane reflexes to pull off... you have to mind-game and anticipate when he'll curve or not. Doing so at a loop will save you from being insta-downed by a curve, and not every curve at a loop is 100% due to hitboxes.
Saying a "God-Tier Billy" can 90% of the time land a curve is not correct... you didn't flat out say that, but it sounds like that's what you believe. A Billy will measure the distance it'll take from the curve to the other side of the loop, when doing so, they'll know if they can make that turn before you make it to the other side of the loop...
This is with basic loops though, if you're looping him around extremely safe loops, than you'll have to mind-game the vaults and use pallets that have no room for mind-games... otherwise you'll just get downed.
Like I said before, this is the best I can give you. And tbh, I doubt anything else I can say would be different, you just need to learn how they play and measure their skill to determine the things you can get away with. If you just assume every Huntress/Billy will down you instantly, than you're underestimating yourself.
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That's the issue though. You can't waste enough of their time if those killers down you really fast.
Typically, you'll face a sizable number of good killers at rank 1. Some of them are really skilled. It's hard to get good practice because you don't encounter god tier killers very often.
Huntress is much more common than Billy, so I've gotten pretty decent at countering her. But again, the really good ones are very hard to loop. They don't cut corners wide and they know how to use the hatchet hit boxes to their advantage.
I need specific tips for dealing with god tier tier Huntresses. So far, I haven't read anything I don't know already.
And as for Billy, there are some that will curve at every loop. You either throw down the pallet or get hit by the curve. If it is possible to dodge the charge on reaction then I guess I better start practicing. I don't want to waste pallets against Billy. So I'll just have to try and get better at performing 180s while looking behind me I guess.
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Regarding god tier Huntress, I've never played against one because i play on console. Aiming on controller is so difficult that even the best Huntress can be beaten if you know how to use pallets and walls effectively. God tier Billy, assume he has tinkerer and BBQ, and try to play as stealthy as possible. Still might lose if your teammates aren't good and Billy finds the hatch first.
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You won't get anything from here if you know the basics. "God Tier Huntresses/Billies" are very uncommon now a days, and it all depends on your own skill and practice when preparing for one.
You honestly won't find anything here that will magically give you the answer, that isn't how it works. If you know the basics than improve upon them, that's honestly the best you can do. There is no secret trick or technique that will counter and beat any Huntress/Billy, there just isn't.
This is honestly the best you'll get, sorry mate.
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Well, you never know who might be lurking on the forums.
I only asked because I've played with god tier survivors before and they don't go down so easily. So those guys are obviously doing something right. Was hoping to find out their secrets. But oh well.
Thanks for sharing anyway.
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What I mean is it's kind of impossible to describe what to do against these "god tier" Killers.
It honestly just boils down to skill vs skill, if you practice enough against it like these Survivors have, than you'll most likely know how to do it yourself eventually.
There is no secret dude, it really just boils down to honing your skills to match a Pro-Huntress/Pro-Billies Skill. That's about it, there is no magic technique no secret skill no nothing to be said. What everyone has said here is honestly all you need to know, you just need to hone those basic skills and make them into some advanced skills.
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I'll just ask these guys in chat next time I see them.
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You probably won't get anything different for information, unless they teach you directly.
But goodluck!
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