General Discussions
General Discussions
DS rewards failure just like NOED
Comments
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Or ignore them and chase someone else.
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No it doesn’t.
I’ll admit that the OLD DS kinda did, but it also required a skill check to be hit. Plus, most killers dribbled you to the hook anyway.
The new DS is anti tunnel. End of discussion.
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Very well put. I forgot about all those perks that “reward failure”
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It's supposed to help go against tunnelers. I've been tunneled so many times to where I essentially have to run it at this point. It allowed me to get away but that's just me.
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Unlike DS, Noed does have a counter, which is cleansing. If you won't spend the time needed too cleanse you know the risk. DS doesn't have a counter besides slugging, and even then they can be picked up. DS's change needs too be that it ends if another survivor is hooked. I once hooked 2 people, found a third, then got hit with DS because I was "tunneling." It needs too be for that purpose, tunneling, not a get out of jail free card because the survivor jumped into a locker.
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Wrong. DS doesn't reward failure and honestly neither does NOED. They both punish the other side's actions or inactions.
The thing is, DS punishes a killer for tunneling and then not slugging. NOED can be used regardless and it all depends on if the survivors didn't cleanse totems.
Survivors can't always cleanse all the totems. Sometimes you get a really good killer that honestly didn't even need NOED to begin with. So survivors struggle and work hard to get to endgame only for...yep. NOED.
That said I don't care about either of these perks. But the NOED equivalent is Adrenaline. Not DS. DS is fine, don't tunnel.
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DS is still only good for 1 minute, 1 use, and do not miss that skill check. It may not have a counter, it is still very limited.
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The reason why is the toxic version of us killers call DS a reward for failing. Constantly I see them saying "because you played poorly you got caught, and ds is a free tool to fix the messup, it rewards players for playing bad." (Thrn turn around and complain doing objective takes no skill, so by most peoples logic doing objective in anything in this game is not skilled, whether its looping or gens, or downing survivors etc.) honestly, DS is really only a bandaid. The counter to it is obviously not picking a survivor up. Just like survivors also call NoED a second chance perk or one that fixes messups. While our objective doesnt end until the survivors escape, the same thing is said for survivors. Use whatever it takes to win is the way I see it. And you win some and lose some. Lol
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The issue is not solely DS. The issue is high rank play. If you play by survivor rules, in which DS causes that, the killer will lose every game if the survivors are good. And SWF exploits borrowed time, DS, and all the second chance perks in such a way that it is impossible for a killer to win. The devs have created a living nightmare for killers. And nerfing the top viable killers is pretty much sealed the deal that survivors are the power role.
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Right, so play by the killer rules! No DS, BT, BL, DH, no looping, or doing gens, and get out of thoe Jungle Gyms. You must run in a straight predictible line that provides the least amount of work and challenge to the killer.
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U moron, DS punishes tunneling killers. Survivors are always going to get hooked at least once if the killer isn't utterly #########.
DS you immunity for 60 seconds after getting off hook which means you need to basically be tunneled off hook and if your getting tunneled off hook, since escaping a killer is pretty much impossible your dead without any chance. Decisive just means the killers have to go to someone else. Sure... old decisive did reward failure but new decisive doesn't. If your honestly losing games because of DS I think it's a you problem and not a game problem
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By this logic and counting it as rewarding them for losing it seems you think first hook is a loss. You're probably the sort of person who thinks an Ebony Mori should be base kit because you can't play right
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Slugging is not a counter, its just a delaying tactic. A counter is something that prevents an action from occurring or negates its deleterious effects. Slugging barely even mitigates it as they can just be picked up by another survivor or if they have unbreakable.
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Tell me this what happens when you get downed by a leather face late game and they basement camp you because you looped them for 5 gens?
You get saved then they chainsaw you and pick you up.
Now with ds I can escape the basement and the sweaty killer.
but... without ds what is to stop a killer from straight up tunneling you?
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Nothing, which isn't an actual problem. But I'm not asking DS to be removed, I'm asking it to be turned into an actual anti-tunnel perk and deactivate after you hook another survivor.
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Ok that’s reasonable
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5 gens doesn't mean you win, you still have the gate which I've won on several times both with and without noed, noed just makes it easier to punish gen rush, that's it, hell yeah I'm going to use it, it's an end game perk that may never activate anyway from cleansing, the kill isn't meaningless either, that's extra BP and a good laugh in messages over the salt, and even if you don't have perks and win on gate, something else is the issue that makes ME the trash player, at the point of losing to a legion with 0 perks or add ons at the gate, don't even start, git gud and stop getting friends to carry you to red rank, like for real, my best game yet, the toxic messages was incredible "you used legion ofcourse you'd win, GG noob" lol yeah buddy a low tier killer winning with 0 anything makes me a noob haha, went off topic but point stands, noed is simply end game perk that's easy to counter, git gud (not you personally, just people in general that cries from it)
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Yes, they do, although DS applies to 4 people. DS can absolutely kill your momentum in a number of ways and in many ways is abused as a so called "anti-tunnel"
Either way, they're crutch perks that do reward failure, in the same way a perk like DH rewards you for a bad loop and an unpunished mistake. If I chase/down, even hook another survivor, then down the DS survivor, there's no reason at all a DS should apply to me, because that survivor made the choice to stay close, in a dangerous situation, and I get punished for it.
So, destroy both perks :) NOED shouldn't reward you for your bad play and inability as a killer, and it's not justified because "Wah, I play poopy Doctor so I need it." If you need NOED on any killer, you're a bad killer. I'd rather lose and analyze the reasons for it and improve than run a perk like that. Sit around, justifying it with "Just break the totems. That makes my perk fair, because you can just break all the totems"
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That is literally a counter. Slugging makes the perk go away AND stalls. That is literally what stops the perk from going off. Or just not tunneling down a survivor literally renders the skill useless. There are few scenarios you should get hit by DS. Most common case are last minute saves when the gate is opened and tunneling a specific survivor. If you tunnel. Not gonna lie, you kinda deserve to be DS'ed. Only time I tunnel, which I deserve to get DS'd if they have it, is when people break hooks. Hook breakers gotta go.
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Slugging is hardly a counter, they just get picked up for free by their teammates thus avoiding getting hooked. Sounds like the perk did it's job, just in a different way. Still, given how BS the perk is, it's about all that can be done ever since they ruined enduring.
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Remember that Decisive Strike is a perk to counter tunnelling... that lasts for 60 seconds even after the Killer has downed 3 other people, lets you do dumb plays, and is countered by slugging the Survivor for a few seconds.
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Don’t be toxic and tunnel. There’s your counter play :)
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A "good" killer can't do jack ######### of they go into a locker, so yes it is immunity.
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Being tunneled is one of the most frustrating experiences in the game, and some of you want to nerf the one of the two good perks that actually help. Ya’ll are wild lol.
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Uhm, you are aware that getting downed eventually is not something a survivor can prevent? It's part of the match like pressing ready. You WILL get downed no matter what. Unless the killer is a rank 20 beginner. You point just shows you don't understand the core of dbd.
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Oh my God. You killer mains will never understand it's an ANTI TUNNELING PERK. For the love of God stop tunneling and you won't get DS'd!!! It's that simple! Smh.
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Nice strawman bud.
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I agree on the locker part but other than that it's fine.
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Tunneling isn;t toxic, it was a legitimate strategy to get a survivor out of the game and punish bad plays. But now with BT and DS survivors can do brainless plays and get away fine.
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ROFL!. Tunneling is very toxic. What's a bad play to you? them running you around for 2 gens, someone else puling them off the hook? the fact they got on a generator? Face it, Your complaints are poor. You want the game turned into something easy for you to win. Something that makes the game very predictible, just so you don't have to actually play the game.
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Tunneling is EXTREMELY toxic. You dont 'punish bad plays' you just be toxic.
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Piss off tunneling (unless exclusively from wherever killer is to that individual passing everyone else until that one is found) is not toxic it's the smartest option, someone injured and already hooked once or a healthy survivor not hooked, who gonna die quicker? The one closer to dying is more valuable as a kill cause that's 1 less early on
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Refer to my comment to kate
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Agree tunneling isn't toxic, save one style, that's clear targeting, if the one you hooked is in your sight, then go for them, that's called easy winnings lol
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This is from an actual match: I hook Dwight, Kate comes to the rescue before i even leave the hook. I hit Kate once, she unhooks, I down and hook her. Dwight fakes the unhook, I hit him, and of course BT. He unhooks and i down him.
Now there are two survivors I can't pick up for a full minute. I leave Dwight by the hook, after drawing a magic Dorito on the ground. Kate runs away. I move toward the gen that just popped and find Jake cleansing Haunted Grounds. I let him finish, then down him, hook him, and trap the hook.
My Dwight trap goes off and I teleport to find Feng healing Dwight. I down her and hook her. Kate unhooks Jake so I teleport and down her. Dwight gets up with Unbreakable and unhooks Feng while I'm picking up Kate, whereupon I get DSed in what had to be the very last second of her DS timer.
I hooked all four survivors in under a minute. Just FYI... That's the exact opposite of tunneling. Then in seconds I go from 2 hooked plus 1 slug to all four unhooked... because "iT's An AnTi TuNnElLiNg PeRk".
The way DS is now, it encourages stupid plays because the survivors know they can get away with it. Without DS and BT, either Dwight never would have unhooked Kate or he would have immediately replaced her on the hook. Without DS, Dwight would have been hooked instead of lying on the ground in front of Feng's hook waiting to use Unbreakable. With just a shortened DS timer, Kate would have replaced Jake on the hook.
I am in no way saying we should get rid of DS, that would be silly. It is needed for ACTUAL cases of tunneling. Personally, I would like to see one of two possibilities:
1.) The DS timer loses 10 seconds every time another survivor is hooked while the perk is active and the DS user is not slugged.
OR
2.) The DS timer loses 5 seconds every time another survivor is hit while the perk is active and the DS user is not slugged.
I think either of those options is pretty fair.
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I actively avoid tunneling survivors because I know it's not fun for them. But every time I get to about rank 5-6, I get people baiting me after being unhooked, even if I'm not around when they're unhooked. It seems like they just want to use DS, and it's annoying. Because of this, I let them use it, then I tunnel them until they're dead. It's like DS is the new form of tbagging.
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If you tunnel early on then thats even more toxic because theres no reason for it! Like why is it so hard for survivors not to teabag and killers not to tunnel
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I refer you to Vossler's posts. His desire to go after and tunnel is proof that DS should stay the way it is. It's already hampered in the fact that it's 1 use, 1minute, and has a skill check. They put in what you want and it's no longer a viable option. It's just another perk gone down the tubes because killers didn't like it.
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Picking on the weak one is the best strategy for killer. Its the one you want to go for because then you can start breaking the chain. Its not mean, its strategy.
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Oh dear - Emotions are running high!
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yeah, wonderful strategy. one I bet you are used to seeing people DC on too. This is why they need to start showing the survivors who is playing the killer. So they have the option to leave the match before it starts when they know it's going to be some knob on the other end.
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People DC for any reason. Getting downed in general is a popular one. That is not a great argument for not focusing on a weak survivor.
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Lol no noed doesn't reward failure. If you play well but because of how gen speed is you can actually have a chance at endgame with the park also remember running noed has a big disadvantage of it being destroyed and you having only 3 perks until endgame. Remember when the devs said about their new endgame mechanic to give killer a chance when all generators are done? Yeah they gave the ability to open gates instantly for survivors very helpful!
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like you said, its just a huge crutch and second chance for failing in the first place. really fun for and fair for the killler. but hey, im survivor and only my fun counts.
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The problem Is that they use those 60 second of immunity to do gens like really?
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Failing? you're kidding right? Killers are designed to catch and hook survivors already. So a survivor runs you around for 30 seconds, a minute 2 minutes and you finally catch them, They failed? they did what they could against a character that is designed to catch them. DS is in to deter you from doing it again to the same person. You choose to go after them, you deserve to be DS'd.
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Yes, how dare you try to take someone out of the game to help you win?
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I see more people DC over a killer that camps, slugs, or tunnels, that I do just because they don't like the killer. You and other killers can cut down tremendously on this by simply not doing those things. Additionally if killers stopped tunneling, camping, and slugging, MANY perks you complain about wouldn't be used anywhere near as much as they are today.
You may as well just say "How dare a survivor want to do anything else but be chased by me!"
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Sorry, I will not follows the Survivor's big book of rules for killers. And I am aware of what survivors want to do. But this is a competitive game, and its not like I have survivors bending over backwards to give me hooks. So I am going to do everything in my power to win, and get called sweaty for it, and be fine with that. And when it comes down to it, I don't want DS to be gone, I just want it deactivated after I hook another survivor.
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