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Just found out the new perk 'Blood Echo' gets a 80/70/60 cooldown
What is it with cooldowns on killer perks lately?
I understand that Thrilling Tremors got one because that could be abused, but Blood Echo itself is already underwhelming since hermorage sucks and the survivors have to be injured.
The meta will never change if you keep restricting killers from using niche perks by slapping cooldowns on them.
I bet if Infectious Fright would have been an Oni perk it would have a minute cooldown aswell.
How about we mix things up and give borrowed time a 2 minute cooldown aswell to restrict survivors, instead of being able to mindlessly safe-unhook people, who then get a free bodyblock hit and cant be tunneled because of ds. 😉
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The cool-down doesn't really do anything unless you can down multiple survivors within 60 seconds, but I do see where you're coming from tho. 😁🤗
In the near future, I would like to see the developers shift away from cool-downs unless the perk needs one to prevent abuse. :P
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Surely the limit is already that it only affects injured survivors, so why the hell does it ALSO need a cooldown?
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It has exhaustion too.
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For real, the perk is already super situational and adding a cooldown just makes it more worthless than it already is.
I do like the Oni tho. Already saved a mil to split between the killer and the survivor.
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I have no idea why perks like "Surge" and "Blood Echo" got a cooldown at all. They wouldn't be even anywhere near as powerful as current meta perks without a CD.
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It makes sense, since a snowballing killer with blood echo could keep everyone permanently exhausted otherwise. I wonder if it would pair well with mindbreaker, to keep them exhausted longer.
Still not worth running though.
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Calm down complainer, By Any Means also has an unnecessary cooldown and nobody is bitching around.
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Imagine if it didn't have a cool-down, the amount of pallets that would be savaged by survivors.
I have mixed feelings about this because on one hand, killers tend to bloodlust me and ignore pallets, it would feel great to punish them. On the other hand, this perk could be OP if it didn't have a cool-down. 😁
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Cooldown on Killer perks is just such a lazy way to balance them.
And I'd really like to know where this myth came from that Thrilling Tremors is abusable without a CD. The wiggle meter that advances significantly every time a survivor is dropped already acts as a stopping lever.
And more recently there is Surge. The devs claim that they added a CD because it MIGHT be abusable in a 3 gen setup. But guess what? If a killer is hard committing to a 3 gen setup then Surge isn't going to matter a whole lot anyways, the 3-gen setup is already going to be bad, Surge or no Surge. What the CD ACTUALLY does is tell the killer that he isn't allowed to snowball, he isn't allowed to be rewarded for committing a perk slot, playing well, and downing survivors quickly, and this hurts killers who would want to use Surge in non-3 gen setups a lot more than the rare killer who actively looks to create them.
Adding a CD to Blood Echo also tells the killer he isn't allowed to be rewarded for committing a perk slot, playing well, and downing survivors quickly but also let's the survivors know that they shouldn't be punished for not healing in these cases.
TLDR; Blood Echo already has counterplay; healing. A CD is not needed except to punish killers for playing well.
Post edited by Rizzo on1 -
Uh no, that perk makes sense to have a cool down. You wonder why no one is complaining about that perk having a big cool down? Because it is actually reasonable, keeps it from heavily being abused by SWF
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That perk is super memey and I don't even know why it has a cooldown. Any safe pallet is going to instantly be broken during chase, and people resetting un-safe pallets seems pretty worthless?
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Eh? I wouldn't go that far. Picking up a dropped pallet isn't amazing, pallets worth picking up are destroyed almost as soon as they're dropped. I don't see this being used regularly by any team, SWF or not, CD or not.
Let's not lose sight. Exhaustion perks make sense. One time use perks make sense. But 9/10 times CD on perks are out of laziness, absent of proper balancing. Regardless of if it's a survivor perk or a killer perk.
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Found the survivor main.
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No, I am a killer main. But I also play both sides. And I can't even see getting bullied by a SWF because of this perk.
Any safe pallet I instantly kick during chase, because otherwise any survivor with a brain can loop it indefinitely. Unsafe pallets I bloodlust or mindgame, depending on the skill of the survivor I am chasing. And then once the survivor is down, I kick the pallet before I hook them. Is the SWF going to run in mid-chase to eat some hits so they can reset the unsafe pallet we are looping? Lol.
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Well, it's quite simple: A survivor drops an unsafe pallet in your face, then abandons the loop and keeps running. Now you have to choose between kicking the pallet and likely losing the chase, or leaving the pallet to be reset by one of the survivor's buddies.
If you're truly a killer main, how have you never experienced that situation?
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Just walking around them and ignoring the pallet is the correct play to begin with. That's why it is an unsafe pallet by definition. Usually it means unless they get a stun on me, they are taking a hit even if they drop it. They are 100% taking a hit if they try to play it for any length of time.
And no, I haven't experienced that situation......because the perk isn't out yet?
Any good pallet is getting kicked instantly. I think people will struggle to find good value in the perk. I would rather have the SWF team running around resetting bad pallets instead of doing generators. It reminds me of sabo, fun, but ultimately useless.
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Well, you're awfully confident that this perk wouldn't pose a problem to you, for someone who's never actually gone against it.
Players are creative, coordinated players even more so. You're setting yourself up for a rude awakening if you think people wouldn't find a way to abuse this. Just look what they did with Nemesis.
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I can just read the description and make a judgment. There are physical limitations to what can happen in the game. I have already described every use-case for a pallet reset, and they are all borderline worthless.
I didn't need to ever use things like mindbreaker or cruel limits to know they would be terrible perks. Surge I fell for, I will admit that. I thought it might be better than pop goes but absolutely not.
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Pallets are one of the most powerful tools available to survivors in a chase. Therefore, being able to use a single pallet more than once is powerful, regardless of whether it is safe or unsafe.
You've never played against this perk, which means survivors have never had a way to re-use pallets before now. You can't anticipate every use-case for this perk when you've never had to deal with this possibility before.
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Take cool concept,
add pointless cool-down,
"balanced" Dead by Daylight perk. :)
btw Infectious Fright has no cool-down despite being one of the strongest snowballing perks in the game but "hide your Terror Radius for a bit" only works when you hit the Obsession and has a long-ass cool-down.
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A safe pallet will never get more than a single use.The survivor has no reason to ever stop looping the pallet until it has been kicked. That's why it is a safe pallet. These are kicked instantly.
An unsafe pallet is a pallet that the killer can get hits at even when the pallet is dropped. So there is plenty of potential for hits no matter how many times the pallet is used or reset. Personally, I tend to break these after the survivor goes down regardless.
So, it's usefulness is limited to a SWF squad trying to reset the unsafe pallets during loops, which I don't find very threatening. There is no way this perk is taken over any of the current meta perks for high level play.
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I really have to ask: why bother assuming that this perk won't see use, long before you actually see it in action? What could you possibly gain from assuming that this perk won't pose a threat to you?
This is the equivalent of a villain monologuing about how the heroes couldn't possibly defeat him, so he need not prepare himself for the upcoming confrontation. Overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer.
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Not really, as most of the pallets that would be saved are VERY unsafe pallets that the killer just doesnt think is worth breaking yet, or even at all.
but something safe like shack pallet? You’re damn right that’s gonna be broken
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Cooldowns are an incredible lazy concept by the developers to "balance" things. Just look at how old killers, or perks near enough never have a cooldown to the effect. Nowadays however pretty much everything newly released is slapped on with a cooldown.
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exactly what I mean, thank you.
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I play both sides and I think they need to shift away from cooldowns.
Neither Blood Echo or Any Means Neccesary are that strong. Take away the cooldown, if they are, put the cooldown back.
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Its weird that this has a cool down because it has limited uses too. You can only use it when you hook people and that can only happen 12 times, and most of the time even if you 4ked you wouldn't have hooked everyone 3 times, like you may never hook one survivor until theyre the last one, so you really only got 9 uses out of it, if other survivors were even injured. I guess the cool down doesn't matter for stalling killers.
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Blood Echo absolutely needs the cooldown, taking away all Exhaustion perks more than once a minute would be utterly obnoxious. It's hilariously short for a cooldown as is. If you're actually in a position where that cooldown is even coming into play, you're doing fine anyway.
As far as AMN, it's "nice" to see people still don't understand what an unsafe pallet is. That perk is also strong and deserves its cooldown.
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You know who else is permanently exhausted? People who don't run exhaustion perks and we do just fine.
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This perk aside, I agree they need to stop slapping cooldowns on literally everything. They're using that to balanced EVERYTHING nowadays lol.
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It shouldn't matter if they reset and unsafe pallet because the pallet is bad. It isn't a good loop so it really means nothing other than the survivor wasting gen time in exchange of saving a crappy pallet.
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You could... you could try healing to dodge the exhaustion?
You have to be injured (which means you were likely in a chase with the killer), the killer has to find, chase, and down someone else, he has to pick that survivor up and hook him, and then he has to find you again. You're telling me that between all of this you have not found the opportunity to heal?
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Right...
And what happens when it's a Plague game and healing is just suicidal? Or it's against any killer that punishes healing?
At any rate, I'm not sure how your point addresses the topic of whether or not the cooldown is necessary since the entire discussion assumes that there are Survivors injured in the first place. Otherwise it doesn't matter whether or not there is a cooldown at all.
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What, you mean there's actually a reason to heal vs Plague now and she actually gets to use her power throughout the game? Whatever will we do now against the super OP Plague and Legion? D: /s
I don't understand what you're confused about. The perk punishes survivors for the "never heal, just M1 generators" playstyle and (supposedly) rewards killers for playing well, spreading pressure, and downing survivors quickly. The CD tells killers that he isn't allowed to play THAT well and be rewarded for his perk slot investment.
The point of my previous post is that there is already ample counterplay and a CD isn't a needed one.
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A cooldown this long will make the perk useless. A shame because it looked interesting.
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Cannibal and Billy need cooldown nerfs on their chainsaws. Too OP.
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Claud profile pic not surprised
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Seriously, as if it wasn't already bad enough even without a cooldown. I don't know why they feel the need to continuously throw cooldowns on already bad perks. The fact that they think Blood Echo needs a cooldown but that Borrowed Time shouldn't is just boggling to the mind.
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I've not played the ptb but a cooldown might be good as to not deny people using exhaustion perks against certain killers almost entirely (legion and plague mainly). To be fair the perks they choose to give cooldowns to are sometimes questionable as really strong perks (BT and Infectious as examples) do not have cooldowns.
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I think the devs are just scared of creating strong new Killer perks (look at Demogorgon's perks, they're all either meh even in specific builds or horrible). There's a lot of Survivors that do just fine without Exhaustion perks. If that's your excuse for the perk having a cooldown, then it sounds like you might be relying on your Exhaustion perk a little too much.
With Thrilling Tremors, the Survivor will wiggle out if you drop them enough times, so all of that information loses a lot of its value. You can't really abuse it.
Post edited by SnakeSound222 on2 -
Personally I never understood how thrilling tremors could POSSIBLY be abused. If a killer keeps dribbling a survivor, that survivor is just gonna wiggle out.
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