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So, about gens...
I know this has been done to death already. But I have an idea that might help killers and make things more interesting for survivors.
So what would my fellow Fog Dwellers think if we reduced base survivor repair speed to .8 charges per second. Now hang on. Before my fellow survivors gather the torches and pitchforks there's more to this idea. The other part of this is there are 7 toolboxes dropped (one per gen) in every map. They would only have enough charges to repair 1 gen each, and bring the repair speed back to 1 charge per second. They could not be taken from the trial. Each new game you'd have to find a toolbox, or repair 20% slower.
Regular toolboxes found in chests/blood webs would simply negate the 20% debuff and act as they currently do.
Well that's my idea. Do you guys love it? Hate it? Have any ideas to improve on it? Please share your thoughts.
Comments
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Nah
All this would do is increase gen repair time. Killer regresses a gen and bam you're back to 0.8 charges per second.
A real solution would be an overhaul of the survivor objective. Something that's not a hold M1 simulator.
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Both ideas are very good. I'm proud of this community.
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Here's my solution.
Reduce regular repair speed.
Increase (or keep it exactly as it is now) repair speed with multiple people.
That way, being separated will be less effective than grouping up.
Now killers gain more time at the start when people are usually separated.
Also making the shroud of separation actually useful. And it's counterpart on the survivors side aswell.
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I would simply remove great skill check bonus and make gen regression a thing even without ruin or pop, not as significant as the regression applied by those perks, but something in between.
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Now I'm not totally against it, but there's a bunch of things that need to be considered, such as:
- Where do these toolboxes spawn? Set locations? Chests? Literally anywhere? Do I need to search every inch of grass in case they're in there? Do you see them?
- What if I want to use a different item, like a medkit or a flashlight? Would I have to drop that and grab a toolbox instead?
More importantly, in order for it to be worthwhile for survivors, you would need to find a toolbox and get back to a generator in under 20 seconds, otherwise you'd be better of powering through it. But that also raises a different question, would those extra 20 seconds really be a game changer against a really good team?
Those are the sorts of things I'm curious about.
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That's a big brain idea, my friend. Too bad you beat me to saying it.
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you guys had over 3 years now to figure out how to make the games a bit longer. the community already gave so many input to it but for you it seems to be too hard or do you just dont care? and your band-aid fixes like ruin dont count mate.
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So, you are basically proposing to make gen repair slower on average. The speed is either slower or the same, on average it will be slower than now.
The question is why would you want that? Survivors are already barely surviving with 30% escape rate on average in red ranks. Do you want a 100% kill rate?
Where is the logic? This idea makes no sense whatsoever. If anything, the gen repair must be made faster, to balance out the very low escape rate.
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I'd thought of this a while back and I think it would be an interesting thing to try. Some perks like Discordance would be way more appealing if that were the case (maybe too meta), and others might be a bit crazy (Ruin when you're trying to work on a generator with multiple people who aren't great at skill checks would be a yikes). It would be neat to try, though. Disrupting a generator with three people on it means three people doing nothing for a while, whereas normally disrupting one person on a generator means everyone else is working on other generators as efficiently as possible.
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I always thought it would be a nice idea if totems were linked to gen speed, like the more totems are done the faster the gens are able to go since the totems are kind of a fun easter egg hunt for survivors while they sneak around avoiding the killer. It seems it must have been suggested already though, but is there a reason that hasn't been tried?
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You have to find a obtain the golden toolbox before repairing any gens. Including the Hawkins map. 😈
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Peanits, I think you understand, that "genrush" is basically an illusion, unless people bring in toolboxes or BNPs.
The dependency of summed gen repair speed of all survivors in the game vs number of survivors left in the game is non-linear, it's rather exponential.
4 healthy survivors in the game = killer can't control them all, so it's natural that gens are being done very fast at the beginning. But as soon as there are 1-2 survivors left the gen speed slows down drastically to the point where it becomes a "gen jam" with almost no gens being done.
So, it makes little sense to talk about speed of gen repair at the beginning of the game, because it gets compensated by the mid/late-game gen repair speed. The average repair speed of the whole game is much more informative. And survivor's escape rate of 30-35% tells us the the average gen repair speed is fine. It's actually too slow.
If anything, we could use a game mechanic to slow down gen repair at the beginning of the game and speed it up in the mid/late game. But with what purpose? To defeat the gen-rush illusion?
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Yeah, I would imagine doing this would bring an entirely new meta to the game. And maybe some perks like discordance(as you pointed out) or proove thyself would require some checking so they aren't too powerful.
But would it be possible to test that? I honestly think it could be great for the game.
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They couldn't spawn in chests. There would be too many chests to search if that were the case. Spawn points would need to be semi hidden but not off in a random patch of grass. Obviously it would take alot of work to make something like this happen. But I think it could work.
As for the different item thing. Unfortunately yes. But realistically it wouldn't be that hard to set your preferred item in a good spot. I also toyed with the idea of once a survivor picks up the toolbox it becomes invisible. There would just be a separate icon for the trial specific toolbox. The more I think about it the second option is probably a better way to go.
That's why I think it could work. Survivors have to decide if it's better to power through or hunt for a toolbox. You see the complaints about 5 minute games. An extra minute can be a big difference in this kind of game. I feel like it's a small enough change, that no survivors are going to complain. Except for those that would complain no matter what. But if could be a big enough change to give killers some room to breathe. Obviously this would need more fleshing out. But I think the basic idea is there.
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Because games can go way too fast. This would be a small change that would hopefully balance that out a bit. Especially for lower tier killers that need time to get rolling.
I'd actually suggested this before. It never got any traction.
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It's funny how many people are saying "make gens slower" without considering other solutions or even the repercussions of that solution. I guess they realize that is all devs will do because devs aren't willing to add another objective. Slightly disappointing.
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I thought hunting down something to fix gens, would basically be another objective. I was looking for something fairly simple to implement. That would still, hopefully, give lower tier killers a chance to get going. If you have an idea I'd like to hear it. That was the main point to this thread. To give my solution, and let others improve upon it. Or give a better idea.
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I wasn't talking about you I love your idea!
My idea would probably be to make Ruin basekit but its regression depends on the amount of other totems up. Also the Ruin totem respawns after 90 seconds. A clunky idea but its an idea
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I wasn't being snarky. My hope was to get people engaged, without the usual survivor verse killer stand off these things usually attract.
Your idea is similar to something I'd suggested in the past. Where survivors had a repair speed debuff for each totem on the map. I've also had an idea where ruin was spread across two totems. You had to destroy both to get rid of it.
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I agree, but then solo survivors are gonna get absolutely demolished. You would have to REALLY buff them somehow.
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I've had this same thought recently. Maybe increase the Gen repair time, but make every completed Gen lower the repair times on the remaining gens.
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Gen times are fine. I know that gens pop up too fast if you're against an SWF team or optimal survivors... but unless you're on red ranks (and even in red ranks this doesn't happen frequently) the "gen rushing" is just a dream. You don't need to think "I am a red rank surv/killer and I think..." the game is not only about red ranks, and being honest, a lot of players are in green/yellow ranks where there is a mix between the red ranks that lower their ranks on purpose and the unexperienced players.
Besides, that encourage players to go into SWF teams and make solo a more frustrating experience.
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That's like counteracting the increased pressure killers get as gens get completed. I like it though
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Can we not just get a second objective? Sitting on gens is so boring. I understand the issue that people hate quick games but there is literally nothing else to do. I can do 2 gens and break a couple totems and the game is done. Prolly 6-8min. And this is with no toolboxes and maybe having a chase with the killer and an unhook or two.
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Imagine making noed basekit - at least for now - that would give you a fast secondary objective, but they would need to add the totem counter. It may sound a bit too much, but I like the idea. Makes the game more interesting and scary.
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I'm not OP, but here's how I see it:
toolbox spawn
I guess spawns could be similar to the totem ones, and those toolboxes would have different 3D models as well to let them be more visible once you are near them (maybe just bigger models?). So yes: you don't know in advance where they are, but spawns are not totally random on the whole map. I'll come back on this later.
multiple items
If you want to use a med-kit / flashlight then yes, your repair speed will be slower. That's a downside that is fair to have in my opinion. You can drop your item and take a toolbox, if you want, that's up to you at that point. Also, considering that there would be 7 toolboxes around according to OP, the choice do I keep my item vs do I take a toolbox would be interesting - I like to search every chest I find, and what I enjoy the most is when I have a couple of very good items in two different chests, but I can take only one. Different play styles, different picks!
efficiency (search for toolbox vs rush gen anyway)
having toolboxes hidden on the map doesn't necessarily mean that survivors are disincentivized to look for them; in early game a lot of players prefer to hide and assess the environment (who is the killer? where is he patrolling? Are there survivors near me? Totems?...). In this early phase of the game, some will find a toolbox just by chance, without wasting time simply because they wouldn't work on a generator anyway. Later on survivors will have to move around, because of a chase, because of ruin, because of a unhook... In any case, once you start moving, you just need to keep your eyes open.
That's my take at least.
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I'd say set locations, in obvious areas. And instead of toolboxes, make them into toolbelts so that they don't compete with other items. So, say, have them be hanging on walls, from trees in maps without many buildings, etc. Make it so that two always spawn near the entrance of the basement, and at least one always spawns in each of the map's setpiece locations. So, say, on the map with the slaughterhouse, one will spawn in the pig room, another will spawn on the cow tree, and (I can't recall if this is on this map) one will spawn on one of the threshers.
Put most of them in places that are relatively safe for survivors, and give something similar to killer instinct to a survivor when they're looking at one of the belts. The point isn't really to waste their time looking for them, but to give them something else to consider before they start slamming gens.
Really, I'm not super big on the additional time this task would take from survivors, but I like how it feels like it would make the match more dynamic. The survivors would feel more like they worked and earned the victory if they were able to claim these belts and have things actually change because of them, instead of just getting lucky enough to be able to sit on a generator until it pops.
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Gen rush isn't an illusion. It's a term used to describe specific tactic that all survivors can use but only some do. Calling it a fiction just shows ignorance.
Just a quick vid from good ol' Marth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxkk5sH6zRI
That actually wasn't full genrush as survivors also got chased and saved each other from hooks. Feels pretty balanced doesn't it?
If weaker(not top tier) killer goes against good survivors, they have to essentially throw the game for him to win. I know that not everyone plays that way but some people do. Just like some people camp basement with bubba and play Ebony Mori on one shot hatchet huntress but somehow these are the problem.
Survival rate are at 30% because most survivors aren't that good at the game. They make stupid mistakes, use meme builds or just simply have fun with their friends while dying in the process.
This game really quickly loses all of it's appeal when you really have to sweat every match and go against equally sweaty players. I'd rather see both sides getting balanced so that neither side can get massive advantage during the first 5 minutes of the game.
At the moment survivors can finish all gens in this time while looping the killer and saving from hooks. If survivors goof around killer can do it too but while he can slug and down everybody at least of the survivors will jump off the hook to have chance to turn the tides and let's not forget that survivors have perks that help them with that as well.
Average of games I played 3 gens pop before killer gets his first hook.
That's 60% of goal of survivors done and 8% of the killer.
I'd rather see some mechanic that slows down either side when they try to rush the game for example massive slow down of gen speed when 2-3 gens are being worked on at once or slower killer movement speed or auto-kindred when 2 survivors are on the hook or downed.
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Ooh, belts. Good idea!
Make them 'gifts' from the entity for lore reasons, to be able to add secret stats that can help the killer under certain circumstances. (idea explained at bottom)
Belts preserve existing item functionality, but could be further expanded upon to add a bit more dynamic gameplay too.
Make it so when a survivor is wearing a belt, the pickup animation a killer uses incorporates the belt, loosening it.
Then, as the killer is transporting a survivor, the belt falls off after a random amount of time.
This solves any future potential issues with a killer being able to 'horde' the passive item, making it accessible but still based on RNG.
I feel survivors would need an easily discernable visual indicator of the belts location after on the ground, and depending on the effectiveness of the belt said indicators effectiveness should be scaled accordingly.
Could even have belts with different levels of effectiveness or different stats that adjust skill check zones, repair sound, etc.
Higher quality belts have almost no visual indicator on the ground, lower quality are easy to spot, etc.
Helping the killer:
Could further even add negatives to the higher quality belts for balance if needed, like if two high quality are on the same gen, killer is given a buff.
Or the two survivors wearing those belts suffer a debuff, etc. Could add a lot in this sense.
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But it would cause another imbalance between solo and swf survivors, wouldn't it? Because swf can tell each other on what generator they are at. So for this to work generators would need to have their aura revealed to all survivors if one survivors is working on that gen. It would potentially also make tunneling more viable, since it is much less likely that you have multiple survivors working on one gen if one survivors is dead.
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I agree with this completely
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I'd rather see some mechanic that slows down either side when they try to rush the game for example massive slow down of gen speed when 2-3 gens are being worked on at once or slower killer movement speed or auto-kindred when 2 survivors are on the hook or downed.
Those are actually some very interesting points!
One problem that I see with DbD design is that it is neither casual nor competitive, it's a mix of both.
From a casual standpoint we have
- heavy RNG with totems, pallets, windows, chest items and more
- lack of ranked vs casual gamemodes
- add-ons and items that break the game (scratched mirror + map offering, iri head huntress, keys, commodius + BNP...)
However, competitive speaking
- Almost absent comeback mechanic (I'll... come back to this)
- swf
- swf
- swf
So what happens is that in casual play killers and survivors can somehow balance each other - sometimes rng or add-ons make a side much stronger than the other, sometimes everything works fine. When sweaty swf come into play, though, the competitive side of DbD materialises itself, and there's basically nothing a killer can do.
Why there's nothing a killer can do? Because a killer cannot be balanced around a competitive scenario (or: sweaty swf), or every other survivor would have a miserable experience.
The introduction of more valuable comeback mechanics could turn this around, but what is a comeback mechanic? Well.. NOED is one, for example: you are losing, and you get a boost to help you.
@theArashi examples are working around the same concept: survivors are gen rushing? The gens become slower. The killer has multiple hooked survivors? They get a boost in their surroundings awareness. There are a lot of things that can be done, but one thing that is important to understand is that when the outcome is balanced artificially, the skill level becomes less and less important, meaning that two killers may reach the same outcome while only one deserved that, skill wise.
...probably the best way to go should still be to be able to opt-out from swf games, or let only batches of 2 players at most queue up.
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Except i never run crutch bbq or crutch ruin and still manage 4ks
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"Crutch bbq"?
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Spotted the angry survivor main pretending to be a killer lole
Dude. Leave those brownies alone, don't bully.
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This might be too crazy an idea but cut me some slack took me 2 minutes to think of it.
Add a new mechanic(not perk) when a gen gets completed by survivors within 32 m of the killer the survivors who worked on the gen are exposed for 30 secs and this effect goes away if the killer gets a succesful hit it that time (if on one of the exposed survivors)
Add a mechanic when a killer kicks a gen it regresses 5% instantly and then regresses like normal. if paired with pop this would be 30%
This way theres a bit of counterplay (waiting to complete gen at risk of it regressing more than normal) (killer gets a little extra power if he almost got to gen in time and survs are too quick)
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So when is hook rushing getting nerfed?
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After it becomes OP
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I already have the best solution to help slow down gen repairs. It's called patrol the generators. Yes, that's right. Instead of camping your ruin, your hooks or being looped for 5 minutes, actually go find survivors on gens. It's amazing!! Try it, you'll like it
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Man, I had the first idea. Make them set locations. That I was gonna post, but you had to be all awesome with it and add the toolbelt bit. Love it. Love you. Love. Just wish there was something else to do in the game other than sit or loop.
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Maybe buff bp for doing gens then, too?
Isnt it the least rewarding action? 1250 bp for 80s wait time + killer patrol generators.
A totem is 1000bp in 14s.
A safe unhook is 1500bp (2s?). With BT its 9/10 always safe.
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The average game length is 13 minutes , making the game longer would require rebalancing everything in the game , most people just want general survivor nerfs and increasing match length is far more time consuming than just improving matchmaking
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Swf are a problem regardless so.....
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I always thought that a good way to increase the match time would be that instead of opening the exit gates, they open after a set amount of time
Like 2 to 3 minutes after the last gen is completed where it's not a m1 simulater but survivors trying to survive for a set amount of time
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A good way to fix the gen repairs is to make it so that survivors have to find fuses in chests (found along with another item) and insert up to three fuses into a gen and that will make the repair faster for each fuse and when a killer damages a gen instead of regressing the gen just pauses and a fuse or two becomes destroyed and res pawn in a random chest. Fuses can be carried in the left hand while an item is carried in the right hand so you don’t have the hassle of retrieving your item every time you pick up a fuse.
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Gens should be like autodidact
the beginning couple are longest to finish because you are still learning them
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I've been thinking it would be cool if the charms they recently added gave something like a 1-5% buff in a certain field depending on rarity so they weren't purely aesthetic. Thoughts?
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If its only bp boost, ok, if something else, then not ok, because a lot of charms are not free. Pay 2 win problem.
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Valid point, maybe make charms unlockable or just free?
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I say add a blind mechanic to when survivors fail a skill check on a gen. The explosion adds a temp blindness for a few seconds.
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