bing bong your second chance is gone.
title..
since a bunch of killer mains have been recently complaining about DS, yet i still see lots of NOED in high rank, you have no grounds on which to complain. you can’t be for one thing and against another, especially on perks that are similar in nature.
some killer, a wraith, who shall remain nameless, got upset when i had and effectively utilized DS, yet ran NOED which was blown up immediately EGC, calling me a “crutch perk user.”
first off, survivors have to actively work to disable NOED. the killer does nothing/no criteria has to be met on his/her end. so not only is my time being jeopardized in cleansing, but i also got verbally abused by a killer who denies to think on both sides of the fence
so please, be courteous and think on both sides. yes, DS might be annoying, but realize your NOED isn’t any better in nature.
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Sad thing it’s that noed is the only crutch perk for killers, and have an easy counter, something we can’t say about every other survivor crutch.
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That's just another good example why most Killer mains can't be taken seriously at all because whatever prevents them from getting the 4k = nerf it. Just look at all the crying about DS.
Keep in mind i said most, not all. There are some really good, non biased/whiny Killer mains too.
EDIT: Before someone else says it.. yes survivors can be like that too.
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Your DS vs NOED comparison is interesting because of the history there which I'll get to, but first.
The devs AFTER YEARS of nerfing survivor are FINALLY pushing back on killers because of their unit of metric: 2 escaped/2 dead survivors. This metric however, is only applied to top tier games and really doesn't show how bad it is in low ranks. Low ranks is a trainwreck and new survivors are getting destroyed for 5kBP or less sometimes, repeatedly. 4k's are regular.
Anyways, what I like about your take on noed is that it has been an issue SINCE RELEASE. Back then however it was Sprint Burst vs NOED comparisons. SB received multiple nerfs and is to date a mediocre perk, not bad, but not even comparable to what it was. NOED on the other hand is still considered a top tier perk.
I think what draws my attention to NOED is that it was one of the lines drawn in the sand back in the day. I could see alot of talk about people wanting it nerfed, but it wasn't.
Why I think it's interesting is because what it symbolised. We lost a lot survivors because of all the nerfs survivor received, while concurrently creating an entitled killer class who (as we've seen recently) just don't deal well with nerfs to killers at all.
The devs created a particular kind of community because of the way the metric was applied and I don't think it was for the best.
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So you refuse to spend your time to do totems, that your fault. Remember what you said, the activation of NOED is controlled by survivors.
Not to mention the killer needs to play with 3 perks almost for whole game just to use a perk that has a chance to be disabled
And as you said, activated NOED gets destroyed real fast that you usually only get 1 instadown. So the killet essentially use 1 perk slot just for 1 instadown in EGC.
And if you want to compare perks, adrenaline is better choice to be compared with NOED. DS and NOED are not comparable
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So that wraiths argument is invalid because that wraith ran a perk you didn't like?
So then does that make your argument invalid because you run a perk that I don't like because it's timer is too long and can very easily be forced?
Furthermore why complain if it got destroyed imediatley? That essentially meant he was playing with 3 perks the entire game, kinda like desicive but its not in the wraiths control.
Complaining about taking time away from doing gens to prevent being exposed at the end of the game ngl sounds a little entitled, but I agree that the wraith shouldn't have complained about the perk choice - that's what the forums are for
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NOED *was* nerfed. It used to be permanent, with no hex totem.
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Don't direct your grievances with perks onto players no matter what the situation is.
By all means have a discussion about perks you have an issue with, but don't blame players for using something that's in the game and isn't bugged or otherwise not working as intended. Both you and the Wraith player were in the wrong in your example, even though they were admittingly worse since they couldn't keep their pointless scrubby crying out of endgame chat.
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Thats why I use Rancor.
Also, I play fair. If you will use DS on me at the end, you will become a new obsession and I will mori you, too.
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NOED is nowhere near the powerlevel of DS/BT comboz... noed stops working at like rank 10.
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Well it got buffed again then didn't with EGC.
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I mean if you refuse to spend 1-2 min to cleanse all totems its pretty much your fault.
Also each totem is 1k bp and they do count towards emblem.
Bhvr tuned totems so you actually get something out of it if you spend a little time on them. (Then again most survivors dont want to use the avaiable counters (COUGH BBQNCHILI COUGH) and just want them nerfed legion style)
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Bing bong your opinion is wrong!
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DS is not active through the whole match, what are you talking about?
Idc what your stance is, on a topic I'm not taking sides on tbh, but at least tell the truth.
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NOED is used by lesser skilled/less viable killers or at lower ranks, if you are confident that you can stop 5 gens being done, theres no reason to run noed. It's a problem at lower ranks but you see it less the higher you go.
Also, do bones.
The only counter DS has is "just leave them alone for 60 seconds after every unhook lol"
There is 0 reason not to run DS at any rank, its objectivley one of if not the strongest survivor perk in the game. It's insurance against being tunneled, but if you get a decent killer that avoids tunneling, then even better! you now have a 60 second invincibility twice in the match, and if you get hooked after the gates are open, a free escape.
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I actually want devs to buff solo to SWF level, even though I mainly play killer (Because queue time, LOL)
And if the killer is good even with only 3 perks, then he deserves some kill. I bet if these killers replace NOED with other better perks, you won't even finish the gen.
Keep in mind this is just my opinion
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You mean some killers are overpowered? May I ask which one?
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If I had to wager a guess, I'd say they were talking about spirit and maybe oni. They're the "no skill omg overpowered" scapegoats right now. Which usually comes from people who have never touched the killer side in their lives.
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Agreed, I see so many ######### killers chase one survivor for ages and when all the gens are done, said survivor gets punished by NOED for nothing. DS does last too long though. Myself and many other good killer players get hit by it even when we chased and hooked another survivor. All the crutches (on both sides) need to be gone for the health of the game.
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i honestly hate both but at least noed has a counter like there both bs like sixty seconds of immunity when it comes to ds and every survivor on the team can have it and when it comes to noed it's just one free down and a speed boost which i really
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I honestly hate NOED and would love to see it removed, but comparing NOED with DS simply doesn't make sense.
They are not even remotely similar.
One has very easy counters and one doesn't.
Also, "just don't go after anyone for 60 seconds after every single unhook for the entire game" is not a counter. That is how you lose the game. A 60 second immunity after each survivors unhook is insane hence why it is the best survivor perk in the game. 60 seconds is so long that you will end up eating it at some point whether you are tunneling or not.
NOED shouldn't exist, just like DS in its current state shouldn't.
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yeah. it’s dumb. killers should have to WORK to activate it. it’s fair and is like we have to ACTUALLY WORK for MoM.
its completely fair. just because something does support your 4k every time doesn’t mean you have to be against it.
period.
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Going with this, survivors should actually have to WORK to activate DS. It is a 60 second invulnerability timer after being unhooked with no downsides.
It's completely fair, just because something means you can't escape every game doesn't mean you have to be against it.
Period.
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so you’re basically saying that you want to tunnel..
that’s why DS is in place though. it doesn’t reward bad gameplay on behalf of the survivors, it punishes the bad gameplay on behalf of the killer.
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Typical Laurie
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thank you! such a compliment for me actually.
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copyright
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No, incorrect.
It punishes the killer many times when he does not tunnel.
I'm fine with it being an anti tunnel perk, it just currently is not.
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This is the big thing with DS. Even if you go after the unhooker, the timer is so long that there is still a big chance you'll get hit with it anyway, even though you didn't tunnel. I think the perfect change would be
- When another survivor is hooked while DS is active, the perk deactivates. Gain a 10% speed boost to unhooking actions.
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That would fix some issues and I like it.
I still think it leaves out some other non tunnel issues though, like end game and when they use it as a second life to repair gens in your face etc.
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The only thing keeping this true is the thought pattern that its true. People assume there is no point in THEM cleansing the bones they see because their teammates wont do the same, while said teammates are thinking that very thing of them. Point being... if everyone just cleansed the bones they ran past thats often times 3 ft from the gen theyre working on, its not even a solo vs swf thing. The only thing SWF really has at that point is confirmation that someone else is indeed doing bones...
You could very easily wipe out NOED at the very beginning of the game while the killer is going from gen to gen, listening for the sounds of a gen being worked on.
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#########
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a perk that encourages slugging for this reason?
No.
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Many ppl just get annoyed by how much DS gets weaponized. Having the mindset of being able to do whatever you want without consequence is enough to let someone work on a gen when they normally would run, as long as theres a nearby locker to jump into. Someone posted this clip last night that pretty much showcases this perfectly.
Theres really not much someone can do to counter that...
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And what buff was that? Being able to instadown the last living Survivor? Much useful, very OP. Wow.
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Adrenaline rewards big survivor success.
NOED rewards big killer failure.
Yet somehow they are comparable? Really shows killer main logic.
Anything that might stop 4ks=op crutch perks for entitled survivors huh?
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Sounds to me like you got triggered by a wraith with questionable mindset. If you get verbally abused, thats not Ok regardless the cricumstances.
"you can’t be for one thing and against another" - well I think you can.
I think its not a great idea to compare killer perks to survivor perks. You should look at them seperately.
Noed's counter is cleansing totems or find the enlighted one. And most of the totem spots are really not that great. Sometimes funny how 4 players cant cleanse 5 totems or remember their spots. Even if noed procs its not like you just fall to the ground and lost a game. btw you get points for cleansing and yes you wont be able to sit on a gen for 14 seconds. fbm
DS is great vs tunnelers. You can just slug them for 60 seconds but thats half a gen. So you have to play really strategic to counter that. I see the problem with DS that there are player who abuse it in a way its not intented. Cant count the times I got DS'ed for not tunneling.
In terms of annoying I agree. they both are.
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I see how they are similar, it's hard not too. But take into account DS is a free escape for EVERY survivor and has no counter except waiting for it to run out I'd say it's pretty strong.
NOED can be destroyed before it is ever used, it only activates for a very small portion of the game if it even activates, and there are 4 survivors to 1 killer. Naturally the killer is going to have a stronger perk, if you're asking for them to be on a 1:1 power ratio you're smoking crack.
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Theyre compatible in that they activate at the same time, and the "failure-success" thing is easily flipable. You can get adrenaline with 5 gens to go, 3 teammates dead and the hatch closing. I suppose you COULD call that a success that you outlived your teammates, but the killer definitely didn't fail to get the NOED that activates during that scenario.
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Lol ok
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@LordGlint That video isn't really showing how DS gets abused. Instead of grabbing you could also hit the survivor twice, that was a simple hook exchange offer. Grabbing was even better as it wastes the DS. Slicing into the air after the unhook was simply clumsy, that Steve should go down easily. You don't need DS for that, everyone (sorry, many people) running BT behave like that. Take the free hook, I love when this happens.
All I dislike in that case is the locker "juke". But I also like in these cases, when they refuse to run and just want their DS triggered, when they jump in and out to trigger the grab. Then just don't grab, keep distance to be able to swing or look away, lunge, turn back and hit. The locker animation is long enough. And then leave them. They could have run to do something useful, now they crawl around. Fine for me.
Still agree on disabling the countdown when someone is hooked. Everything else suggested all over the forum, like disable on hits, on entering lockers, on touching gens etc is not necessary.
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NOED is a crutch, true. It is a totally avoidable crutch however.
You will normally get hit by DS, even if you don't tunnel.
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If both NOED and DS were removed tomorrow, who would be more upset?
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What’s interesting is NOED was originally the opposite to Hope. Both used to be active for the first 2 minutes after all gens were powered, both sped up the user, and both expired. As a hex totem, NOED loses that equivalence.
To be clear, I don’t use NOED, but I really don’t see the problem with it when I’m surviving. If I see a totem and I’m not pressured, it goes. If as a team we don’t get them all and the killer has NOED, we’ve failed the secondary objective. It’s kind of funny to me, honestly. Totems are a legitimate secondary objective in matches with NOED, the very thing people want to make games more interesting, but it’s a hated perk.
DS, on the other hand, can’t be disabled. If the killer hooks someone else and happens to run into the unhooked person, it’s their responsibility to remember who they hooked last and to not pick them up if it hasn’t been a minute. If the survivor that was unhooked sprints into a locker to gain attention they’re invincible. And that feels bad. The killer didn’t tunnel since they hooked someone else or were drawn to the unhooked person by the survivor’s bad choice, but they still get punished for it.
NOED can never show up and be a completely wasted perk, DS has actual abusable mechanics behind it. I don’t see the equivalence.
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I don't care, if you want NOED and also DS goes with it, I am fine with this.
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As someone who never uses NOED yet plays against at lest 1 DS per match I think I reserve my right to complain.
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I don't think anyone would be upset. Everyone will rejoice.
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"since a bunch of killer mains have recently..."
Way to make your argument constructive with a bias.
That's when I stop reading. Nice!
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