What's with the constant killer nerfs every week?
It's completely out of hand, they're not warranted and no one's asking for them, so what's going on? People have been begging for killer buffs for years and you guys just ignore everyone.us.
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Its like a mother and her child. The child asks for candy but always gets vegetable its never asked for.
Only because its unwanted, doesnt mean its bad for you. Only because you dont get something what you would enjoy, doesnt mean it would be good for you.
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How are weak characters getting nerfed good for us..
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What characters you mean especially?
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This analogy makes no sense. How is Legion getting nerfed into oblivion good for us? How is the devs ignoring the community and nerfing Oni and Nurse good for us?
There are times where the devs do ting the community doesn't want for the better, like the Spirit changes, but that doesn't apply here. They took a weak killer (Legion) and then nerfed him for a bad reason. Oni was fine, everyone loved him and they were happy with him, and they nerfed him anyway and are lying about it, saying it was a "bug."
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They have consistently said since it was first pointed out with Oni's release on the PTB that the flick was unintended and that they were planning to remove it. They were never happy with him in that regard, it was always considered a bug, and they have said so since the beginning. There was no deception there.
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Nurse nerf - warranted and asked for. but maybe they went a bit too far. Could use some tweaking. Still strong but harder to use.
Spirit nerf - warranted and asked for. Still very strong and very easy to use.
Freddy nerf - warranted and asked for. The slowdown combos got out of hand. Still very strong and very easy to use.
Oni nerf - warranted and asked for. Devs have already said they're buffing him a bit in the next update. Still strong but harder to use.
Legion - this was a mixed buff and nerf. The killer needs a rework tbh.
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Why even have killers in the game at all at this point? It's obvious the hate killer and hate people who play killer, you may as well just remove it and have survivors do gens without any threat. That seems to be what everyone wants right?
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The legion got changed due to consistency. Eg sloppy shouldnt be applied by something other than normal M1 attack. Many addons got a buff and a nice change and I dont think bE are done with legion yet. Overexaggeration wont bring good. I like the way the changes for legion went so far. Imo it is good they change him step by step. Maybe it is not good for you, but keep in mind not everyone shares the same opinion.
I am also not happy with the current nurse but I understand why they changed her. Overall I think it was the right decision to overwork her addons. Im not a fan of her basekit changes what makes her unfun for me. Still the "new" nurse isnt live for that long, so I understand when the devs want to wait and monitor. I dont see any problem with the oni. And to say that the devs ignore the community is just not true. Im sorry if you feel that way. We dont share this experience.
Like I said, only because a community wants something doesnt mean it gets implemented or will work out fine. Where did they lie about oni? It was in the patchnotes that it doesnt work as intented.
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"Like I said, only because a community wants something doesnt mean it gets implemented or will work out fine"
LOL that is literally how the devs balance the entire game, based purely on what survivors whine and complain about.
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Sorry but I dont believe the devs balance around what survs whine and complain about. As reference I would recommend you to go through the patch notes of the last 3 years. Only if feel bored ofc, its a lot ^^
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Hmm really now?
If you say they don't then why did all of a sudden the next character to get focus on was Spirit and not Doc.
The Devs metioned that after Nurse was "reworked" they would do Doctor next, but instead they listen to the survivor community and Spirit was next to get nerfed.
It's obvious they listen to the survivor community based on the example above that the Devs did.
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Also don’t forget how quickly they decided to nerf Spirit. It didn’t take that long for the devs to announce that they would be nerfing her instead of updating Doctor. If the plan was to look at Spirit after Nurse, then why didn’t they say anything during an earlier stream or developer update? It really looks like something suddenly changed in the middle of the development process.
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Tbh I never felt that the spirit changes were a rework, more a hotfix. And yes because the problem with spirit "overperforming" got obvious they changed her not only based on survivor complains. In this view the doctor is the next rework after nurse.
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That's not the point, the point is that instead of going to their originally plan to rework the Doctor, they instead quickly went to nerf spirit based on survivor complaints.
Which literally means they listen to survivor complaints more than the killer complaints.
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Quickly? The Spirit has been out for like over a year lol
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Ah ok got you. I dont agree with you here. They nerfed the spirit because she "did too well". I wont deny that the community could have played a part in that. Still the argument why they listen more to survivor than killer needs is not valid. The spirit was clearly overperforming and that was an acute problem on live dbd. You were facing her literally everyday and it had influence on the game. The doctor had and has not that sort of impact on daily games as spirit had. So if the devs in your opinion would treat killers and survs the same or even prefer killer they would have changed spirit after the doctor. In regards of a healthy game that would have made no sense at all and would have been completely killersided and ignoring acute problems.
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Survivors never would’ve been nerfed if they only cared about survivors.
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Except I would have been fine about the Spirit nerf, if they didn't already nerf Nurse into oblivion, while they didn't even give a nerf to the survivor equivalent.
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I feel you with nurse. I hate that cd on her fatigue. But I think they are not done with her and keep monitoring her. So I stay positive.
I dont think it has to be equivalent. For example I was really happy about the insta meds change and I think its good for the game. And more things need to be adressed and Im sure the devs already looking into many of these without us knowing. Sometimes it really feels unfair and I can completely understand that. You see so many changes to killers and in comparison so less to survivors. But the thing is survs are all the same, they are only cosmetics. Killers are very different with all their unique abilitys. Of course they need more tweaks. If you change one survivor, you change all. If you change one killer, you change only that one. And Im sure we will see some changes about survs, mechanics or maps in the future that will help to enjoying the killerside more than now.
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Bhvr rather wants 4 people to have fun than the single player.
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The legion change was a rework attempt, check otz video on the new legion and try to take advantage of his better stats
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I can have fun versus a red rank swf.
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Pig and Legion.
I dont mind nerfs, but a the nerfs without any real buffs to counteract them is just straight up pushing the lower tier killers down further.
Makes sense till player 5 moves to another game because he got tired of it. Making lobbies take longer which makes survivors leave. Wait what's this common sense. Leaving Behavior with true incentive to make AI killers.
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What do you mean with buffs to counteract them?
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Um how to explain .
They Take without Giving.
I.E they took Pigs End Game potential, but never gave her anything to help any other part of kit. Then they nerfed the M1 ambush attacks so they didnt apply status and stuff. While it may seem trivial they removed core parts of her kit and gameplay without helping her in any other way.
I'm not saying these were not needed just whats the point of balancing without doing both sides. They took part of her without giving her any additional help to make up for this.
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If they intended too remove it, then why did they nerf it from PTB too launch? Simply put it was deception because you don't nerf a bug, it doesn't make sense. If you can change a bug then they simply should of removed it then and there.
Even if it was a bug, with how happy everyone was too it they should of just left it be and refined it, not remove it almost entirely.
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Exactly how does it benefit killers to be nerfed? Apparently no one can answer that.
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Not everyone was happy with it, and when it comes to balance that's not how you make decisions anyway. They put a lot of work into designing the Oni and tried to make him as balanced as possible. An unintended extra ability is going to throw all that off, and that's why they removed it.
And if I had to guess, I'd say that they fixed what they thought was the problem after the PTB, but then people found a way to keep "flicking" regardless, so they had to revisit it again. That seems like the most likely explanation to me, but I'm not a developer so I can't say for sure. And since you seem determined to believe that they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes, you probably wouldn't believe me even if I were.
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Using consistency as a reason doesn't pan out when killers like Wraith and Nurse's M1 from their abilities still count as M1 hits, so why was Legion the one that got the nerf? Even still, the reason "it caused too much confusion" is weak since it was pretty obvious why Expose didn't work on Legion's Frenzy. And the buffs he did get do not outway the horrible nerfs too his M1 and the massive buff too Deep Wound. Legion is considered worse then Bubba by the majority of the community, and the fact people have been begging for Legion buffs only for him too be nerfed is silly.
Nurse's addons did need a rework, no one is arguing that fact, but the horrible nerfs too the basekit are my problem. The fact they ignored the community completely, then nerfed her most used addons on the PTB too live and have never touched her since, even when people wanted her reverted.
Onis' flick was never a bug. It was on the PTB, then they nerfed it when it went live, and are now saying it's a "bug." Why would you nerf a mechanic you were never going too keep? if you could alter the numbers from PTB too live, then they clearly wanted it as a mechanic. You don't nerf/buff a bug unless you want is as an actual mechanic in-game.
After all the changes the devs keep making too killers when few people have asked for them is a clear sign too me they don't listen too the community. Legion has been a killer everyone wanted buffed, instead they nerfed him. Nurse is someone who needed an addon rework, which both sides mostly agreed on, and they completely butchered her base kit. They didn't even listen too the archives until it went live, even though many people kept saying it was too hard at higher levels too complete. They only changed it because few people could actually complete them. The only change in recent time that the devs listen too the community is with Spirit, making her more fair too fight but not changing how strong she is, everything else has been a trainwreck IMO.
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Ah ok. Well imo egc was something what buffed killers. And thats why they changed the RBTs. I remember the devs saying that the pressure implemented with egc leaded to the decision to let the RBTs not go off when leaving with a not activated trap. I dont see a bad trade off here. The RBTs were intented to pressure the survivors during the game. Endgame piggy was a specific build what is still possible.
To be fair they removed the status effects on pigs dash for consistency. Thats why huntress' hatchets, legions frenzy or chainsaws also dont apply them. Idk for sure, maybe you can help me here, but didnt they buff some of her addons to make up for it? For example there are addons that apply blindness, mangled with RBTs.
I mean balance can be onesided. If something is too strong you need to tone it down and vice versa. I think the buffs/nerfs pig faced till now are justified. BUT that doesnt mean she is in a good spot now or doesnt need some love. Also if they take away and give something at the same time it can lead to another balance issue. I think it is good to take or give, revisit and then again and so on until it is fine tuned.
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Try that:
How does it benefit the game when killers/survivors are getting nerved
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Not true. I would believe it if there was proof, but the whole thing is sketchy too me. It simply doesn't make sense too nerf an unintended mechanic the devs were going too remove anyway, why not simply remove it from the start?
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As I said, my guess would be that they thought they were removing it. But only a developer would be able to tell you for sure.
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No I understand why they did everything I'm not salty just annoyed everything is one sided.
Nah they didnt buff anything of Pigs. They announced they would be reworking her addons, but my hopes for that are beyond low as the last time someones addons got reworked Nurse was changed. While she is viable to a good degree she's no longer fun to play as.
They always seem to care about survivors fun without considering the fun for the 1 person who makes the entire trial actually a thing.
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uff thats a lot of text ^^ thx for the effort
Honestly I wouldnt compare legions frenzy to wraiths M1 after uncloaking or nurses M1 after a blink. Doesnt make sense to me. So when exposed doesnt work with M1 frenzy and the reason is obvious, how is it not obvious for you with things like mangled from sloppy? Makes sense for me that it shouldnt apply and would have been confusing if it still would tbh. The "nerf" to his M1 doesnt outweight it in your opinion. Personally I like the new addons and his buffs. Doesnt mean he is perfect now. Things like majority and minority are really vague and so are killer tier lists and sorts of. So I wont deliver to the legion is worse than bubba argument. I agree, people begging for legion buffs only for him to be nerfed is really silly. So im happy he got buffed.
I completely agree with the nurse. I also dislike her basekit change. And the basekit change was never topic till ptb patchnote release. But the devs explained their decision and I can understand that. I also understand that they want to keep monitoring her to see if they went too far with the changes, instead of reverting something that was not even live for 1 month. So I keep waiting and stay positive.
In case of the oni I would ask you to read the comment in this thread from fibijean.
I really can sympathize with how you feel about nerfing/buffing killers . Nevertheless I also understand the devs. Balancing a game is a long way of try, fail and try again. Many things have to be seen on live dbd to figure out the outcome. Many things find their way into the game that are not fine tuned. Ofc the community have to play a part in the improvement of the game but its not the only important aspect.
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I have to be fair, sometimes I also think its onesided and I get annoyed with certain thing in the game. But then I remember the old DbD and how I tried to catch survivors with pallet vacuum and infinites back then on PC. Recall that lets me hope for changes that impact the game for a more enjoyable time.
I also get frustrated playing killer and get bullied for playing the solo "power role" of the game. And seeing as survivor how I get matched with low rank killers concerns me about the killer playerbase. Its funny how I think after some sweaty killer matches: lets play some relaxing survivor matches. But unfortunately thats the situation atm. Killers are not weak, but they feel that way and besides the higher BP gain it feels unrewarding at least imo. I think balancing is not about give and take. Its about how everyone can enjoy the game together and thats a really difficult task especially in DbD.
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So when are we going to put a limit on how much, or how fast survivors can turn while running full speed?
The counter to oni now is just 360 him when he goes for a hit...
90% of my attacks as a killer deal with a survivor trying to 360 under my camera, especially on nurse. this plays havoc with the hit detection on dedicated servers and for some off reason makes survivors silent sometimes because your body acts as sound occlusion...
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This is unreasonable.
The Pig and Legion nerfs/"tweaks" are the most questionable and Nurse could use some adjustments. Oni was simply bug fixing, it was stated immediately that the flick was unintended.
Spirit and Freddy are still S-tier and very low skill-floor.
Other than that, survivors have been nerfed consistently for a couple of years now, including the last DLC.
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Spirit got minor changes, that's very different to a rework.
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I'm sorry but all of these nerfs and changes were asked for and deserved.
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So then why do the devs only listen to one side of the community?
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they also said that those using just mouse control should feel no difference after the patch
anyone who does use it can tell you it's now significantly worse
meaning that the devs LIED
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Would you mind linking me to where they said that?
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it should even be slightly better not significantly worse
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Having not played as Oni since the PTB (since I don't own him) I can't confirm or deny that personally. According to further comments Janick made in that thread, your problem might be that you're trying to use the keys to help you turn instead of just using the mouse.
If you think it's still a problem, I would advise you to politely say so to Janick and ask him to comment further instead of jumping to the conclusion that he's trying to deceive you.
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i strictly use the mouse for the flick, i never used the keys for assistance and i can tell you it's worse
what happens is you're locked to about 30 degrees for most of the attack, meaning you run past where you need to be to hit the survivor, then at the last milisecond you get a bunch of sensitivity but by that time the survivor is already too far, scottjund has made a video that explains this better with examples
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They nerfed the most powerful killers to disincentivise people from playing them all the time as survivors were bored of seeing the same killers.
But if BHVR don't want us to keep playing the same top killers, they need to give us incentives to play the weaker ones. Buff the weaker killers!
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First part of your question is so easy to answer its unbelievable. Legions M1 in FF apply Deep Wounds, it doesn't down survivors like a normal M1. While wraith and Nurse M1 while using their power apply no extra effects. Their power is movement based, the M1 has no additional effects. And to be honest I like the new Legion. He feels slick to play, and I like how fast he can injure survivors.
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I'm happy for all the killer nerfs.
I really didn't enjoy going against an Oni. But I haven't played against him since the change to see if it feel any different.
The Nurse nerf was super expected. They had results showing her overperforming.
The same goes with Spirit's nerf.
When you play the same killer over and over and keep getting stronger at playing the game, you're only helping that killer outperform and preparing them for a future nerf. If you select a killer knowing you can almost always 4k, that's a problem. That's not the point of a balanced game.
And to the commenter who threatened AI killers for this game to continue, I'm down. ^_^
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Plenty of people keep asking for everything. BHVR is influenced by the loudest minority of players. It's not sustainable. Q1 2020 won't bring players in, either. The problem is complex, with various factors and circumstances caused by community outcry and notable bitching about 1v1 balance (in a 1v4 game). The solution is simple, BHVR takes control of their product and balance/Nerf all the base kits together, before adjusting any perks.
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