Keys are Busted, FIX THIS NEXT
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You're right. We should nerf keys to be as bad as moris. Let's remove keys from the game and give survivors an ultra rare offering that cuts the time required for gens to be completed to 40 seconds each and a very rare that cuts them to 60. Then it'll be just as trash as a mori. /s
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Not wrong lol bnp and insta heal got nerfed a red key the only one that hasn't been touched
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And here we go again.
Another DbD crybaby thread.
There are conditions for the hatch to spawn.
I usually find one key every few bloodweb pages. Usually around 3. And then often I have to choose between a key and a perk...
I found working keys during the last months in chests very rarely. Maybe 5 times. Most of the time it is a broken key.
In matches with random players keys are not that powerful. Without communication it is not easy to do anything good with them. Also these matches I tend to lose more and also lose the key.
In premade teams they can be rough though if one takes a key and one other a map. They then have the location and can focus on repairing x+1 generators.
I mean i get what you are saying, but I think it is not as bad as you make it seem. I rarely witnessed key escapes.
The entire forums of this game are just filled with back and forth crying from both sides.
But of course it is not easy to balance the game, true.
There seem to be 3 different skill groups.
Within the beginner ranks I have the feeling mostly killers are winning.
Experienced player ranks it is roughly 50/50.
And the high ranks keep saying that it is mostly survivors who win.
Another balance factor is premade teams and solo survivors due to solo survivors having no means of communication.
The game has different levels of perks but due to only tiny differences, for example 1 second longer effect per level it does not do much for inexperienced players.
So there is one possibility for balancing gone, because again it is tough to balance it for all people.
But maybe they could give ranks different extra powers? It kind of breaks a bit with basic rules of ranks only showing skill without considering extra perks or anything, but it would at least be a possibility to address skill group balancing more separately.
Now this would most likely deal with balancing ranks.
Now let's get back to the keys because these are balancing issues between premade and solo.
In that regard it is very difficult to balance it for both. But I agree that an extra interaction time (people called it "Animation" which is technically not correct) could be useful for balance. And maybe force around 3 seconds time that is needed to open the hatch before endgame and during endgame, after the killer closed the hatch they should maybe still open instantly.
But yea it is tough to balance. Everything in the game is tough to balance.
Different ranks, solo or random, and then the asynchronous nature of the game itself.
The devs aren't stupid. I really dislike how people are constantly piss on them on these threads like "Oh it's so easy to balance the entire game just nerf/buff feature X"... Like "its so easy to balance games, here hold my beer".
Let me tell you guys, even balancing simple games like counter strike or MOBAs is not easy. It is difficult. And then imagine a game like DbD. I can assure you the devs are having sleepless nights over this.
What makes it worse is that simultaneously people are saying for example: "BUFF HEX RUIN!". While others at the same time say "NERF HEX RUIN!".
Again problems with different ranks.
Beginner ranks play the game completely different than experienced players...
Like in every game of course but in DbD the difference is tremendous.
So yea. I don't have a perfect solution myself.
But one last thing for your understanding about why sometimes with new killers/survivors the balance is off.
These days in Game Design we introduce new characters a bit stronger because it is easier to nerf than to buff.
It saves time and reduces many risks.
For example if a character is too strong but the mechanics are good all it needs is to adjust the numbers a bit.
But if it is too weak maybe the mechanics and many things around the character are just dysfunctional. Then tweaking numbers is not enough. Worst case an entire remake needs to be done.
So yea... Balancing DbD is a heavier task than it seems.
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Lamo I never knew salty killer mains hate keys, look mori is easy to get if you main killer, key not so easy in blood web, then u talk about chest, get real keys hardly ever show up.
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yes because 2 survivors escaping because they finished one more gen is perfectly fine.
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like I said earlier , two people getting out only for completing 3 gens is not balanced.
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Was my comment about ultra rare stuff for survivors removed?
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The one I replied to, you mean? Nope, it's still there.
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Oh, I was wondering. I couldn't see it when I looked at my notifications.
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I've always said the hatch shouldn't spawn until all gens are done or 1 survivor remains, too many times I've been in complete control as a killer and someone finds a hatch with 1 gen remaining and 2 survivors left and they get a free escape! Now if I see a key in a lobby then I'll bring an Ebony Mori, is it fair, absolutely not but neither is escaping without completing the objective! These Devs need to bring the grab back jumping into the hatch also! Also before anyone says anything about me being a killer main, I'll gladly show you my current ranks on both survivor and killer!
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I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again keys are fine they have counters to them it’s up to you to deal with it.
I think the major of everyones issues with keys are the 3 or 4 man escapes and chest RNG. No changes are really necessarily needed unlike Moris. I play both killer and survivor. If 4 man escape via the hatch that not a key problem those survivors did all the generator so they earned that escape complaining about that just makes you an killer who wants a kill.
If 3 man escape this is were the issues really is the game isn’t finished. I will admit I hate when a 3 man escape Via the hatch it seem cheap and unfair, but at the same time it depends on the situation. I can play a game extremely well and I’ve had times were 3 man would slip through hatch and this would upset me, but when I play survivor there are times were the killers is tunneling and camping survivors to death and escaping via hatch as a 3 man is fair punishment for the killer for bad behavior. Again admittedly It does punish killers who play in a non camping and tunneling way. If anything changes need to revolve around a 3 man escape only.
As for a 1 or 2 man escape via the hatch if you are seriously complaining about 1 survivor or 2 survivors escape via the hatch your really are just an entitled killer who thinks they deserve a 4k every single game. It’s fair if 1 or 2 man escape it’s a 2v1 is one get caught all the killer has to do is camp or slug the guy to death to bait the other survivors if they don’t play it smart. I have no issues with this as I already have 2 kills and I’m satisfied with what I got.
As for Moris it should require at least 4 individuals hooks and/or that survivor must be on death hook so you two options here to make it a Ebony Mori activate and fair.
A killers objective is to kill AND A survivors objective is to survive.
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I had 3 matches in a row with Survivors just escaping through the hatch and giving me a 2k instead of a for sure 4k.
Should they be nerfed though? That's hard to say, if they nerf Keys than I wouldn't really see how it would work afterwards... would there be a cooldown before use during EGC or when 1 generator is left? Or would the cooldown be associated to when the hatch spawns?
It's a tough call, but these items can be indeed troublesome in certain situations.
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Keys, in my opinion, are the closest equivalent to a Ebony or Ivory Mori (not Cypress cuz that only becomes available for the last living Survivor who was dead if they got downed regardless). Mori's let the Killer remove a Survivor from the game extremely early, and Keys let the Survivor escape from the trial early.
And both are actually equal if you consider this: Both sides must work and do their primary objective (chase/slow/injure/kill Survivors or complete Gens) in order to get the Mori/Key to work. A Killer can't just Mori someone if said Survivor hasn't been hooked yet, and Survivors cant use their Key if X number of gens haven't been done. Additionally, an Ebony (correct me if I have Ebony and Ivory mixed up) can only Mori 1 Survivor, while any Purple/Iri Key can let the ENTIRE team of Survivors escape. If the Killer wishes to Mori all 4, then they must run an Ivory (again, correct me if I got them mixed up) and get lucky to find the last Survivor before that Survivor finds the hatch.
Edit: My suggestion is make it so that Purple Keys only allow for 1 Survivor to escape, instead of all 4. Make it so that Skeleton (Iri) Key is required for all 4 Survivors to escape.
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Hi! survivor main here. I totally agree with the idea of an animation, I'm not one to use keys. I've only ever used it 4 times in the 2 years I've played but from what I've seen it's almost balanced. I do think that during chases though it's very stupid to just instantly go in and it's unfair to the killer for a whole team to just leave via hatch during a chase. Although the ability to close hatch to do endgame now also exists, which I find sorta unfair for the survivor side since I've had times where the hatch spawns right on top of the killer and the exits end up being too close together. They shouldn't have endgame start with that so survivors actually can have a chance if they have unlucky door spawn. This is all for my rant on hatches and keys.
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I don't know how hard it is to see a key due to the fact i don't run plunderer instinct. Besides i don't care if they bring a key.
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same could be said for survivor mains.
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How i see it is people will keep complaining until everything in the game is like a padded room. nothing dangerous on either side. But until that happens Behaviour are gonna just keep nerfing #########. My guess is a key will need an overcharge skillcheck, and if you miss it it turns to a 1 rarity lower version. (e.g red -> purple -> green). For Mori's it would need 2 hooks to mori someone or hook every survivor atleast once before you can mori.
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Well they also have to find the hatch. And when 2 players are left and there are still 2 gens to repair, in beginner ranks most won't make it.
What could maybe be done is that the key only works for the carrier. But then that would maybe in some situations promote anti team play.
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I mean, people squealed about not being able to close the hatch. It happened. Now keys are a bigger issue because of this. Finding a key in a box is kind of rare.
Killers can see a key if it's being brought in and drag Franklin's along to counter if they think it's so terrible. A survivor cant do ######### within the game mechanics to know if a killer is bringing a mori and offset perks to extend survivability. In the name of balance this cannot be!
Leave keys and leave mori's in the game. That can be the consistent hero that we all deserve. Just to champion the urge that a lot of people have, and that's to get mad or frustrated at something that's supposed to be fun. You get hatched? Oh well, next game. You get mori'd? Oh well, next game.
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Omg the amount of post about keys and moris is getting annoying. It's not like survivors don't have to work for the hatch to spawn in. As a killer it's very rare that more than one survivor gets out of hatch, even rarer that hatch closes and reopens. Sure it happens but it's so exceptionally rare that when it does is like, oh well. As a survivor I've probably keyed a hatch 10 times in the countless games I've played. More often than not I'm using it with beads and blood Amber.
Moris are also just something you have to live with. At least the keys take the whole match before they become useful. I've had tons of pink mori games end in a matter of minutes. As a killer you lose points doing it to the point that it's not worth it unless they are on the death hook. (Which most killers I've played against don't, though there are true gentle-killers out there who do.) Again though, oh well
Tl;dr get over keys and moris.
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Literally just prevent gens from being done. If you’re hellbent on killing all four survivors every single game then you have problems 😂 one survivor escaping with a key isn’t the end of the world. Killer mains love to scream “just do totems” when it comes to NOED, but want to argue when survivors say “prevent gens from being done”
Keys are balanced. Not like all four survivors can leave with 5 gens left. Pressure is all you need
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Also, to go with my last comment, if all 4 survivors are getting out of hatch, then the exit gate isn't going to help you. They are already out of your league.
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Keys are certainly not balanced, but we ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT have them removed without moris removed first
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Can the Devs please nerf Key's and Mori's?
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Yes, because without any perks killers don't have any unique powers right? Explain how a Billy w/ just endurance and no addons gets a 4k. You're not gonna convince me a perkeless survivor is just as good as perkless killer because they're not the same.
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Well, the chance to get a key in the bloodweb is still lower than the chance to get a Mori. When leveling Killer you can either get 1 of 2 ultra rare addons or an ebony, so it's a 33% chance.
Survivors have pink keys, rainbow maps, brand new parts, syringes and the flashlight thing addon, which tunes it down to a 20% chance to find a key.
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keys are not op.
as it has been stated, you can see them in the survivors hand in the lobby - bring franklins, tunnel the guy or dodge if you are a coward. check under the hook when you've killed them to see if the key disappeared or not and act accordingly.
for more than 1 survivor to escape with a key, they would have to have almost completed their objective (4 gens). they also need luck in finding the hatch (for most maps). many times the killer will stop them in time. the killer can also close the hatch - i've managed to do it many times so i will at least get one of them. EBONY MORI on the other hand, removes the all challenge from the killer's objective - he only needs to hook once and tunnel and it's gg ez. stop comparing the two!
i never dodge keys. they bring an additional tactical element to the game and give the survivors a chance if the killer is snowballing. as i said in another thread, removing things from a game can make the game dull in the long run. it needs to be considered in detail before it happens.
like i understand, why a killer would be salty about a key. you thought you were gonna win for sure but the survivors manage to escape. but the thing is, the other side are players too. just because a thing annoys you doens't make it op in itself.
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Op you used to be able to grab people jumping into hatch but now that killers can close it, keys have become a lot more common. I don't see the problem with them. I rarely use them and yes as killer I have had them used against me. Same with moris. Keys rarely show up in my bloodweb, but ultra rate bulbs and bnps unfortunately do. Also you may see more keys now because of the rift challenges and also the ner f to medkits. At the moment they are the best ultra rares to use.
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How about we eliminate flashlights, keys, and the ability for survivors to move so that they just stand there and do nothing? See how stupid that sounds? The community is what's ruining this game because they cry and can't learn to play the game and deal with a loss. Just because you can't always get 4 kills a match doesn't mean your life is over. Deal with it.
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Here's what i think...
for keys, a overcharge skillcheck or a ds skillcheck when interacting with a hatch. If you miss, it becomes a broken key. that way it's not instant, and the killer has some time to react.
for moris, you'd have to hook every survivor in the trail atleast once before you can mori anyone, that stops mori's off hooks and tunnel mori's.
(thoughs and discussion appretiated.)
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I think keys and at the least ebony moris have no place to exist. Both end the game for both sides prematurely without any skill involved. It's "lols I win now because I equipped a certain item -- deal with it". This is just wrong.
Also: survivors can find keys in chests even without plunderers which is just mind boggling. Imagine killers being able to find moris during the game, the outcry would be massive, rightfully so, because it's stupidly unbalanced.
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I love all the productive conversions you all have brought up, everyone that thinks rebalancing is needed. Yes I play more killer than survivor. Bc survivor isn’t really that hard... I totally agree with Moris being changed, we do need to keep the fun factor for both sides and I realize this too.
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While finding keys in chests is arguably unfair, the key is almost always a broken key.
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False, I normally run plunders and get keys like crazy
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Keys take work and don’t usually work anyway. You have to have less gens to do than survivors, then find the hatch, while dodging killer. Feels bad as killer when they do escape with key, but that’s the game. Same as a Mori feels crap for survivors.
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