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DOCTOR NERFS
Comments
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Alright, well. You go ahead and stand on your soap box, then. :)
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No I think I'll keep lying down on my bed.
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I mean freddy was months before a killer got their own chase music. ghostface was released after that and didn't get one. Demo was the first and that was only slightly before the nurse rework
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(more like almost 2 years if we're talking about Demogorgon)
Also - Does Myers not have his own chase music? Freddy came after.
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After watching the stream, I'm completely relieved about his changes. they're solid. You'll see when PTB comes out. Doctor will change for the better. I just hope he doesn't get changed negatively after.
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They also made it so he could actually use his power. Before he left the PTB, his power would be instantly cancelled by any survivors looking in his direction from any range, and regardless of LoS blockers. That wasn't fixed at all until he hit the live servers.
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Also Freddy has his actual theme used just differently than chase.
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Ah that's true! Maybe was part of the license deal altogether though...and bringing that up reminds me why they definitely would have issues to just during the rework since supposedly nightmare franchise is having some issues license wise?
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I mean, I think we'd all be okay with this as Freddy's chase music...
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I think the changes are solid.
Doc will be sacrificing some tracking for better chase potential and even perhaps better stall.
Static blast doing an entire tier worth of madness is pretty nutty. Add Calm add ons, distressing and higher snap out of it add-on inside The Game map and you can disable all gen progress for over 12 seconds every 60 seconds basically (assuming they're already on T2 of madness).
The only thing I would change is giving the doc more range in his shock attack. They mention a little improvement but that attack needs more than a little improvement.
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HOW IS THIS BAD???? This makes Impossible Skill Checks 10 times better as you'll get to choose when you want to track people, plus stop gen progress and pallet looping far more efficiently!
No stance switching? Epic.
I am hoping that this is as good as it sounds by the way.
P.S. don't touch how Order and Calm synergise please, or else then I will be annoyed. 😁
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Great, I decide to become a Doctor main and this happens lol. The passive madness works wonders on finding people around you. If they remove that they should buff the shock ability to the point where it puts someone in Madness stage 3 immediately. But even then it'll be weaker than the passive madness because someone will snap the survivor out of it.
Removing the passive madness is a huge buff to SWF vs Doc. Exactly what we need.. not. I don't understand the overhaul either. Change small things to balance them.. if you take huge leaps you'll never balance anything.
What's up with all the significant killer nerfs while survivors remain mostly untouched?
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The changes sound interesting and might make him more viable up to a certain degree. What I will miss most is the obedience addon that makes survivors exhausted at tier 3 since it is now replaced with counter-clockwise skillchecks. Obedience helped a lot in purple and red ranks since he is quite weak. So I'm gonna use my 30 obediences during holidays, survivors enjoy!
I really hope they also fix the shocking before vaulting/dropping a pallet. So many times when you clearly zap the survivor they still get the vault or drop and it feels that an earned hit was stolen from you.
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This is definitely a buff, not sure why you think this is a nerf.
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@ your second paragraph: that's like the dead hard issue and the clown also has that fun issue where they start the action before the shock/gas actually affects them so sadly I doubt it'll be 'fixed' ><
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Im looking forward to this. They increased base shock range abit, which was exactly what I asked for. The other stuff is just huge bonuses that i didnt think theyd do, like getting rid of the stance shift. The static blast attack is pretty much infectous fright on cue. Doc's static field was only useful in the first minute of the game most of the time.
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Long cooldowns are such a boring, lazy way to balance things. Stop tacking them on to every new perk and ability.
Other than that caveat, I'll wait and see how Doc turns out. Maybe the increased shock range will help him, maybe he'll still have the same issues from the Killer side that he currently does (very few loops that shock can be used on to shorten against survivors that know what they're doing).
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It's a overall nerf and here's why.
Static Blast has a cool down of 60 seconds from what was said in the live stream. During the time that the Doc changes were leaked it said in the description that the static blast was equivalent to his TR which is 32 m. Now question is that if you use the blast and no one is around or maybe just 1 you have to wait another whole 60 seconds to try and tier up a survivor, not to mention how much counterplay survivors have towards tiering up they can simply hide in a lock or move away from his blast effect. This seemingly makes tiers of madness irrelevant and not very useful since it's tied to 32m near him.
Another thing is that there's no more treatment mode this means that you can no longer fake shocks to get the survivor to drop the pallets early as once you initiate the shock the survivor will know to run another loop on you, doc will no longer be able to pull survivors off hook rescues or gens consistently since there will be no treatment mode.I'm also very disappointed in the change to the "no stance" because this was a huge part to the skill gap in Doctor you had you alternate between the two stances to be skillful with him at loops, all this change does is make it more frustrating for survivors and lower the skill gap between the good docs and the mediocre ones.
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"Now question is that if you use the blast and no one is around or maybe just 1 you have to wait another whole 60 seconds to try and tier up a survivor"
I get the impression that you think he can't just use his regular electric blasts anymore. He still can.
"Another thing is that there's no more treatment mode this means that you can no longer fake shocks to get the survivor to drop the pallets early as once you initiate the shock the survivor will know to run another loop on you,"
What stops you from partially charging up an attack to bait a bad move, then dropping the charge and going to do what you intended to do? This change seems like it makes that EASIER, not harder.
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Idk how I feel at the moment because I barely touched Doctor since I started to play with killers but I hope these changes don't bring him to a weak place
He seems interesting to me
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I still find it a little overpowered how doctor can revive downed survivors with his ability.
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I believe that's the plan - and they'll give us much more info when they come back from their holiday break early january + have us test out around then too I'd assume.
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The range addons are not removed. They are not increasing the range as much as they used to (I mean come on, 50% and 75%?!?), and they no longer widen it. You can still get bonus range if you want that.
In our playtests which include a lot of highly experienced players, the surveys say that Doc is more fun to play, and not nearly as annoying to play against.
My personal opinion is that trying a Moba-like Ultimate/Nuke ability (high power, high cooldown) is a nice addition to the range of things we can do with Killers.
I really recommend trying this thing before freaking out about it. Apprehension about a change to a Killer you like is natural, but let's just not panic yet. :)
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Yes.
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The range add-ons also have a long-ass charge time. You can’t anti loop with them.
Also you guys actually have experienced playtesters? I’m surprised given some of the bugs that have made it into the live builds.
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I've been a rank 1 survivor for a while and I find Doc seriously annoying to play against. Keyword ANNOYING. He's not hard to play against. I want to make that clear. But just because I can escape from Doc doesn't mean I find him in any way fun to play against.
IMO these changes are welcome. The only other thing I'd like to see is that they remove the vault stopping power of his ability since he no longer needs to change his stance AND he is always moving at 115 speed. Honestly the most annoying thing to deal with against Doc. Just make it a slow vault. It would be so much better.
Also you shouldn't be blocked from healing a survivor off the ground. It gives him free slugs and it's super annoying to deal with. Normal healing sure, but healing off the ground hell no. Also also Mend should take priority over Snap Out.
Do these things and make his add-ons stronger and I'd have no problem with Doc moving forward.
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So.... basically you want to make addon-less Doc have no power whatsoever besides tracking?
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No he can make you slow vault. The fact he doesn't need to change his stance means he can shock you, force a slow vault, and still easily land the hit.
This is my exact problem with this discussion. It always becomes a "oh so you want Doc to be total ass killer". NO. Stop putting words into my mouth. I'm fine with him being stronger in other areas, but when he shocks you and you ######### teleport back across the vault, that is complete BS. No excuse for that and if you defend it you are just defending a broken latency dependent mechanic. PERIOD.
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Can I suggest alternating between forwards and backwards skill checks?
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Dude have you even ever played killer? Do you have any idea what that would do to the killer? As if maps in this game weren't awful enough you want to get rid of his only niche he has.
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Yes. I'm rank 1 killer and survivor for the past 18 months at least. Thanks.
Do you play survivor?
I can't believe people defend this kind of BS. "It's all he has" yea that's what a rework is for. To make him better, both for killer AND survivor. You act like he could never get some new tech.
Just the fact he can shock you and hit without losing speed OR needing to change stances just makes this issue even worse. HE DOES NOT NEED IT. Stop saying he does. It's like saying Legion needed a broken Deep Wounds timer from his launch.
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Legion did need it, Legion is terrible now, he can't fulfill basic role of keeping everyone injured or punishing co-op actions. Legion is laughable killer now. Who knows, maybe he will find some hope in another universe. Doctor's niche is related to preventing vaulting and pallet droping. It is meant be skill-shot. How hard the skill-shot is to land is debatable. Slowing vaulting is clown and Freddy mechanic and as such, it belongs on them. I'd wait till PTB before freaking out about the changes.
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No Doc's niche is inflicting Madness that messes with you in various ways. Blocking a vault is not his niche.
That's like saying Hag's niche is to make your camera jerk when you trigger a trap. Or that Myers niche is extra lunge and faster vaults in EW3.
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Doctor is currently a bottom tier killer. He can only go up from there.
I suppose they could always make him worse but he does not have much to lose.
My worry is that the rework might make Doctor less annoying to play as or against but, won't change the core issue of being an M1 killer with no mobility, insta down or stealth. That type of killer is just not good in the current state of the game.
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That's all I'm getting from this right now.
Making doctor less annoying to face as survivor and taking away his niche annoying things about him that regardless of strong or weak make him a decent killer.
Top with some small buffs to overlay those nerfs and make it seem like he's getting better but overall being a nerf to his power.
It's the same as the Legion changes this chapter.
Also similar to Pig when they increased her TR to 32m, monitor & abuse/whispers feel necessary if you want to even use her ambush. And for doctor whispers now seems necessary if you want to use his static blast and be guaranteed you will actually get someone
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So wait, his Mouse-Right-Click actually turned to the normal Treatment Mode Mouse-Left-Click shock blast?
And the new AoE static blast (the one with 60 sec cooldown) will be assigned to a new button?
Can you still grab survivors by the ass with the new Mouse-Right-Click shockblast?
So as I understand, you can still regularly shock survivors to up their tiers individually, right?
Basically, the only changes to his core mechanics is - changing static field, so it will be static blast once per 60 secs, removing treatment / punishments modes, and instead taking the shocking blast from Treatment Mode (was Mouse-Left-Click) and putting it on the default Mouse-Right-Click, correct?
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Honestly speaking, the doctor changes seem great. Doc was never a good killer and I think the changes they're making may finally bring him up from the bottom of the barrel.
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I think you are over reacting. His radius one is a full tier upgrade you can spam every minute if you think you hear someone or the crows fly away. The no stance and always full movement speed is a huge buff.
The add-ons being changed we can't comment on other then it'll let us make our own madness which sounds nice in theory.
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I recall the leaks stating that blast and shock might be on the same button. With shock tteatment being the "cooldown filler" during blast's downtime.
Might be wrong tho.
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Freddy is not top tier. He looks powerful only because currently every other killer is flat out #########.
Loser Face top tier? Yeah, sure, against bad survivors. Against a decent team, Loser Face gets rushed and looped, just like every other M1 killer. He's by no stretch of imagination good, let alone "top tier". He's a meme, only good for teabagging to bleedout gauge depletion those survivors that somehow managed to go down against him.
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The hit and run playstyle works well. Really throws people off. Trying to use ghostface as intended, stalking and such, really hurts him.
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Feels like another add-on dependence "fix" incoming...
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Testing for fun/balance is not QA testing, so those are different people. And in defence of our great QA team who look for and report bugs: combing over a game as gigantic (how many perks? how many addons? how many killer powers? interactions between all the combinations of 20 perks +10 addons in a game?!?) as DbD for bugs is a monumental task. Those guys should get credit for the work they do. What our players don't see is the massive number of bugs that do get found and fixed before they ever show up live.
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Then how did the basement bug make it in? Did nobody get hooked there for some reason during the tests? Did you guys just not encounter it?
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its not putting words in ur mouth because u just said it. u want to remove an ability the doctor has for a more crappy one. thats one of the great things about doctor and u wanna get rid of it, he counters shack but u wanna remove that.
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Peanits said not to quote him but he believes the shock-grab will be going away as it won't be an M1 anymore which makes sense.
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Yet in the same breathe I say make him better in other ways SMH
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there isnt a better way, and slow vaulting isnt a better way. better for survivors but not killer. nice try tho.
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If you can't catch someone moving at 115 and making them slow vault, it's not because the killer is weak.
Case and point, I play Freddy at rank 1 (you could almost say I main him). I can consistently beat survivors at loops using snares to force a slow vault. I don't need to block the window at all to beat them.
So yes, there is a better way and that better way is to force a slow vault. He does not need to block a vault.
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