Swf is balanced and requires no changes
It's not like swf complete negates a Large portion of killers perks it makes already strong survivor perks even strongee. Let's completely ignore the skill aspect for a second.
Swf negates dark devotion, knock out, pwtf( not as bad cause you still get the bonus but now they know if you're stacking speed), mad grit, hex the third seal, rancor,
On top of that it significantly buffs already STRONG Killer perks, ooo can now relay information to all other survivors, they can tell each other whether they have borrowed time, tell team mates when they are running deliverance or any self saving perks like unbreakable, inform when their spine chill is going off yeah you can infer that if they start moving they have it but at least then you need to at least pay attention to your team mates, they can inform each other where to run if they are saboing, not a huge benefit but it is a benefit cause you'll never exactly what all hooks are 99ed.
I bring this up because I keep seeing posts from devs talking about bringing solo quers up to swf level but I NEVER see anything addressing about bring killers up to be able to contend with it. This doesn't even take into account how much easier coordinating intricate plans becomes and thr ability to know exactly when it's safe or not safe to repair gens, who's being chased, for how long. What pallets are left, or any other number of essentially balance ruining aspects come with SWF
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Imagine actually believing that despite the devs literally saying otherwise on multiple occasions.
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Actions speak louder than words, and their actions are LOUD they adjusted the deep wounds mechanic while giving legion players booty, a piddly little adjustment that barely effects him at all. They needed Oni 3 times already and once was before he even left the ptb lol. While ignoring legitimate concerns about his power no I'm not just talking about his "flick" on console either,
Adding additional debuffs to strong killers acting like the current ones didn't matter or nurse now having to wait even longer to get her fully ability back after blinking, because it's not like she ALREADY had a cool down they literally added a cool down on top of a cool down lmao.
Imagine just believing what's said and not following the evidence
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Imagine imagination imagining imaginatively.
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Ohh deep 😀but seriously I hate the " the devs said this" statement because I can say "Ill never lie to you again" but if I keep doing it what weight does that statement have not much.
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imagine saying no sense. SWF means free perks and actually the strongest perks u can imagine, kindred? for free, bond? for free, empathy? for free, nerfed object of obsession (but without risks) for free, but yeah, the killer also has a lot of information all the time about what the survivors are doing and where they are IS COMPLETELY BALANCED for sure, i wish the killer could have such info all the time about survivors aswell that would make the game more balanced for sure.
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*unamused Trapper face*
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I assume the last statement about the killer was sarcasm, just trying to make sure I'm accurately interpreting your reaponse
Disregard just saw your update, I don't think just giving killers information about survivors is the right answer, but killera need love, a lot of it. The game has come a long way from where it was but it's still painfully obvious how much easier it is to play survivors especially with SWF.
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imagine not being able to interpretate what is sarcasm. interpretate it your way i dont care. but your topic (as everyone sayed) is beyond no sense.
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On top of that it significantly buffs already STRONG
Killersurvivor perks,ftfy
I NEVER see anything addressing about bring killers up to be able to contend with it
My thoughts exactly.
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Clearly, you've never been to red ranks and faced 4 coordinated 4 man SWF as killer.
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How about your prove it rather than just make a declaritive statement that has NOTHING to back it up. What benefits does the killer get that negates needing specific perks or negates a survivor's perks? I'll wait lol.
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The devs don't care about high rank killer balance. High rank killers care about high rank killer balance. I think there will be never some sort of agreement.
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I'd argue that's a bad move on the devs part. Any killer who puts enough time into the game will see the big discrepency, between the survivor to killer skill ratio in this game and it is very frustrating to see how easy playing survivor is especially when you go against the toxic players just adds on to it.
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However if you are able to beat them due to their mistakes it feels very good. .)
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What do you mean? Pretty sure the devs themselves have mentioned that the buff base survivor efficiency potential/information ("solos") approach also comes with buffs to killers that need it to keep up. And people that discuss it certainly seem to assume that would be part of it the vast majority of the time.
There's not really many other options. Mechanical nerfs applied to SWF parties is something I'm fairly certain will never happen, and the idea of removing it or interfering with VOIP apps is straight up absurd. The only other option with a non-zero probability of ever happening would be some sort of seperate queue or SWF indicators/bp multipliers for killers.
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They also said they would give 'small tweaks' to Nurse, then ended up butchering her due to how unfun she is to play with that basekit. Devs say one thing, then do another.
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I'm in partial agreement with you, I'm regards to messing with the mechanical aspects of swf.
They shouldn't changes those that is a higher potential to do more harm than good. People like to play with the friend and have coms so I don't want that changed. But killers need the tools to be able to handle it.
In regards to the devs statement again their actions speak louder than their words. And frankly their words to speak very loud to begin with. I see very SPECIFIC things being address in regards to fixing solo play for survivors, regarding perks. Not so much when it comes to fixing killers and again the constant nerfinging indirect or direct of killers with either little borinding I'm the line to ineffective or no counter balance at all shows a distinct lack of fixing killers issues.
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If you got no valuable input to the topic then don't post
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Nurse is still the best killer in the game. Those who aren't good with her anymore were too reliant on elements of her that were broken.
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Irrelevant to the discussion I actually agree with that she is still the strongest. But this isn't about how strong a specific killer is. It's about the state of balance OVERALL I'm far less concerned about a killer that requires skill to play being insanely strong but if you're not very good you're literal bully fodder.
Vs a mechanic that literally negates a HUGE chunk of options for perks and strategy in the killer spectrum. And killer viability as well I should add
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It wasn't irrelevant. It was a direct reply to someone who mentioned the Nurse.
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So I was planning to completely ignore this post but how does SWF destroy Rancor? Player 1 tells he is exposed and moriable to Player 2 and boom the perk automatically disables
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Yeah but it didn't address the specific thing about the nerf that was addressed. Their more concerned about fixing a killer who you're either garbage tier or amazing tier with vs fixing large overarching balance issues.
If the game was brought to a point where killers were in a good place I would have been fine with it but they arent bring the other killers up before nerfing a skilled based killer
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I do, We've discussed this for years. There's nothing new to bring up and I feel like this post is one huge bait.
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It's not a complete negation but it let's survivors know that whoever has the obsession will be one hit down so they know who specifically to body block of necessary it allows them to coordinate a plan before it even gets to end game.
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If it keeps getting brought up it's probably for a good reason. If killers get disenfranchised, ques go up for survivors, if survivors take to long to get in ques they'll want to play less so it becomes a cascading effect.
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Even if highly skilled solos found methods of coordinating like an SWF which would implore some behaviour strategies - there’s still no guarantee they’ll synergise with each other and swf has a much earlier advantage, their perks will coordinate better and items can be coordinated etc.
It’s more that “SWF is nowhere near Solo” level of difficulty.
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That wont ever happen. the steam forums had a more of outcry than these forums about SWF and nothing happen. I remember everyday, I would log onto the steam forum and see 10+ posts about SWF and nothing happened at all.
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Yeah and everyone said trump would never get elected, yet here we are lol. You can only piss on players so long before they get fed up. If the gameplay is NOT FUN players will quit. People expressing frustrations about issues need to be fixed. If they don't see it getting fixed the will leave, that's how evolve died that and terrible monetization lol
Saying it'll never happen highly optimistic and it's optimism that is really misplaced. Because it spits im the face of why many people play a game in the first place
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Wasn't directed at you, BTW.
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I didn't think it was but thought it was funny
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When I saw the dev Q&A stream I laughed so hard when they said deep wound couldnt be abused anymore. Well at least the killer cant abuse it anymore xD
Did you see by chance the otz video where he stabbed the survs in an everlasting circle of get frenzy hit, mend, get frenzy hit, mend, etc xD?
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No I didn't but that sounds funny 😀 and a lot like no one thought about WHEN to mend I'm assuming this was on small maps because I find that working/happening on the large to medium size maps unlikely
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But its ridiculous that you can finish mending and get hit by frenzy again. they mend so quickly. And now survs are in control of deep wounds instead of legion
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But its ridiculous that you can finish mending and get hit by frenzy again. they mend so quickly. And now survs are in control of deep wounds instead of legion
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But its ridiculous that you can finish mending and get hit by frenzy again. they mend so quickly. And now survs are in control of deep wounds instead of legion
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I agree but the devs are happy to handicap killers left and right unfortunately
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They are bridging the gap between solo and SWF. Solo will NEVER be as strong as SWF without voice comms.
Why are people even saying such dumb things. Killer will have advantage vs solo because their power budget is balanced around 1 person, vs solos, it is spread between 4 people. This does not mean killer always wins. This means if we have perfect balance in the game( which we dont) ignoring skill, killer would win more often which is fine. But as we see by the data provided by the devs, killers are already winning significantly more than survivors.
If you are doing SWF(premades) your party needs to suffer some sort of debuff to offset the comms and usually teamwork/perk synergies used.
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They may not ever by as strong as SWF but if they are trying to bring them up to SWF strength that automatically means killers suffer even more
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The problem with this game is that the devs are looking too much with a survivor perspective.
Lime the last q&a when they started about the doc changes (nerfs).
This guy literally said "who do we change next? Who do I not lime to play against?"
For real?
Seeing doc is allready very rare because he's broken and his shocks get ignored a lot if you hit someone before vaulting.
They should look more in both perspectives cause the power role is now in the hands of the survivors while it is a killer game 🤔
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You don't see sweaty 4man swf groups all the time. In fact I've only come across maybe one or two and even then you can't really tell, they could just be good players, chilling and playing with each other and not sweating it out like it's a csgo match or something. You can't just use swf as an excuse for not getting a 4k, a lot of it's on you for either making several mistakes or not trying to change your playstyle if you have a hunch that they're a sweat with friends group.
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There is no possible buff that killers can receive to make up for the information that SWF receives for free.
There's a reason you never see devs address this directly with what they actually plan to do for killers in this regard.
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Then you shouldn't be in red ranks?
If you can't keep up with your ranks the issue isn't the game it's your skill. That's like when my friend got platinum in sfv and then kept getting beat.
Now I'm not going to lie and say all swfs play like mine or there aren't optimized ones but getting rid of it will hurt the game. A lot of people only want to play with friends. Especially when starting out. It sucks there are the people who ruin it for others.
My suggestion is to give killers free bbq tier 1 for that group. Like, if there's 2 swf groups of2 when you hook player a you see where b is at but not c&d. If you hook c you see d but not a&b. A full 4 man? See them all. 3&1 you never see the solo.
It gives the killer the same power a swf group has and doesn't hurt solo
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Yes there is. Free bbq that affects only that group.
If you solo? No free bbq. If you are in a 4 man? Free bbq for all.
If it's 3&1 when you hook player a you see c&b but not d. If you hook d you don't see the swf.
2&2? The same. Hook a see b not c&d. Hook c see d not a&b.
Doesn't hurt solo and doesn't hurt those who aren't getting the info from a swf they're not in.
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That makes actually bringing bbq a crapshoot, as you may get it for free.
Realistically, they're never going to program a thing differently for swf vs solo, as they do not want to punish people for playing with their friends ;3
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You don't get the bp bonus this way.just like tier 1 or 2 bbq.
But that's kind of the point. Swfs make bond 100% useless same with kindred.
So making bbq kind of pointless still isn't even the same as what swf does to others for those that use it that way.
I'm all for giving killers aura readings for swfs.
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Yeah thats right. Its really hard for me to make myself believe the devs balance on both sides atm. Im not the greatest killer or survivor player but I usually play on R1. Since the last few months I barely play killer anymore for various reasons that makes it painful for me. The last dev Q&A was really a meme. They need to change some things soon.
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Let me put this in a way you'll understand.
I, as a killer, have 4 perks, 2 addons and one offering. I have to run against 16 perks, 4 items of varying power and or importance with 2 addons that increase those items power. Right? Okay so I'm already, technically, at a disadvantage.
Now take a 4man SWF. You're all wearing Mics, informing one another of my every move, trap/totem locations, and who I'm chasing and where so you can manage a flashlight save and/or body block me so I cant get to a hook. Not only am I worried about the constant communication and ridiculously coordinated saves but a typical SWF often uses perks that partner with eachothers perks. So, now, I have the most to do on the map while the survivors just sit at a gen holding M1 until the lights kick on... but now I have to go against a whole team using 16 perks that are used to help one another out in situations that they've caused and controlled by coordinating so well. I'm a damn good killer and I'm a damn good survivor, so dont come at me; im telling you I play both sides equally, if not more survivor, and it's super broken. The balance is so off its its it's disgusting. You need one guy with kindred, one with OoO and the rest all run meta; that way they can always see me, see the other survivors and they can switch out looping as needed and I cant catch anyone- or I get DSed when I didn't even tunnel, or flashlighted every 6 seconds, or body blocked to the point that I lose every hook opportunity I had.
So after all this Tom foolery of me getting spanked and/or bullied all game (not every SWF is compromised of toxic little shites, some are just genuinely good :) ) I'm gonna get messaged either with "YOU TUNNELING TRASH" or "GG EZ NOOB". The issue is BOTH the M A S S I V E unbalance of SWF and the community's toxicity. If people didnt abuse perks and the ability to communicate in a game where it was never intended to play with friends it wouldnt be that bad. The devs themselves have said the idea of the game was go rely on strangers to save you, and the scary part was not knowing what was going to happen. All of that was pretty much stripped away when SWF was introduced to the game.
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Exactly this
I also play both sides and as survivor i allready try to make it even harder for myself, cause even solo is like walk in the park with all the meta perks.
As killer it is damn hard to go against a good coordinated swf teams.
I once had a game as freddy going up against a 4 man swf with and all 4 using OoO.
There is nothing you can do against that, was only lucky that i managed to get 1 kill and 2 others being hooked 2 times.
But facing 4 OoO is allready a game lost most likely.
Even tho i play to pip and not going for a 4 man necessarily, i do hate seeimg these things.
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