No safe unhook? no points for you!
Pretty simple idea, right now you get 1000 points for just an unhook and 600 points if its safe, this encouraged unhooks of any kind, just to farm points at the expense of others.
Do we really want to encourage that behavior?
Personally I say a safe unhook or nothing, 2000 points for a safe unhook.
(If you do not agree, atleast provide some argumentation as to why)
Comments
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I disagree it's not always possible to safe unhook, especially in the end game when you might be relying on the hooked to have DS in order to escape.
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Ok so you help someone out there (hopefully) and they escape, a DS escape can be made to count as a safe unhook should they get away, not that hard to program.
Just make it so that it counts as a safe unhook if they either escape out the door or atleast not get re-hooked within a certain amount of time.
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250 BP for the unhook action, 1250 BP for a safe unhook.
So, we should balance around edge cases?
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Idk I think losing emblem points for unsafe unhooks is incentive for some people. I always run BT though.
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I'd like that for when swf people unhook people who arent in their group.
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I can't think of a single situation in which it's better (for the hooked player, at least) not to unhook someone if the alternative is letting them die or get to second stage. Even if that means unhooking them in the killer's face. Given that, and the personal risk that unhooking is, I think players should receive at least some points for unhooks to incentivise altruism, but they should get more points in the "Safe Hook Rescue" category than they do in the "Hook Rescue" category. Like 500 for the rescue, and 1000 if it's safe.
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Well getting unhooked and immdiately rehooked because it wasnt safe just gives the killer more points for no reason plus you (the unhooker) is wasting time doing that, much better to finish up gens or opening a door.
There is at best as much reason not to unhook as there is to unhook.
If they are going to be dead or stage 2 right after anyway, well then handle that as is best.
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That's why I specified that there is no advantage for the hooked player to not be unhooked in that situation. For the rescuer, obviously they are making themselves more vulnerable to attack or even to being grabbed by the killer.
If anything, as I also mentioned in my comment, the fact that the rescuer is placing themselves in danger is all the more reason to award at least some points for an unhook, even an "unsafe" one.
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I dont agree, you are endangering the team by borderline just commiting suicide and yeah there is no advantage for the hooked play not be unhooked but ... there is also no advantage to being unhooked.
Infact, and this is entirely my personal view, I hate seeing survivors run for a rescue when the killer is right there, downing me again and hooking me again when im probably just on the hook to gain some struggle points and buy others time so they can get the door or a gen done or something.
(the devs once spoke of the option to kick a survivor in the face if they tried to unhook you when you did not want to be unhooked, but that could lead to some toxic scenarios so I get why its not in)
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Eh this might be a bit too mean.
There are times when you really can not help not getting a safe unhook.
E.g. you don't have BT, the killer is camping/tunneling the guy, they're 100% dead anyway, or the guy you unhooked runs right into the killer's arms like he wants the biggest hug.
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yeah.... and? I mean... there are also times where you really wanted to hit that skill check so you could get the gen done but, you missed it, sooo should the gen be done anyway?
I just dont get the logic of being rewarded for unhooking someone who immidiatly goes back on the hook, why would that ever be a thing?
You get points for saving someone, well...then you should actually save someone, do or do not, there is no try.
If the killer is camping then you should not go for the save, be smart and do gens or open doors instead, you are just "farming" if you attempt a save at that point.
"they're 100% dead anyway, well do you even hear yourself, thats exactly why this should be a thing, "they are dead anyway, might as well get some points of them" is the selfish attitude that is currently rewarded which should not be.
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I dont agree with you there, you are endangering the team by borderline just commiting suicide and yeah there is no advantage for the hooked player not be unhooked but ... there is also no advantage to being unhooked.
Infact, and this is entirely my personal view, I hate seeing survivors run for a rescue when the killer is right there, downing me again and hooking me again when im probably just on the hook to gain some struggle points and buy others time so they can get the door or a gen done or something.
(the devs once spoke of the option to kick a survivor in the face if they tried to unhook you when you did not want to be unhooked, but that could lead to some toxic scenarios so I get why its not in)
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I also think Fibi is right there. Like above, the unsafe unhook should reward less, but not 0 BP. 1000BP for a 4 second action is the best reward you can get and therefore abused a lot. But regarding the dying person on the hook, it is always worth trying to get the exchange on the hook. If the killer decides to tunnel it is not the survivors fault.
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"They're 100% dead anyway" is actually selfLESS, not selfish. The point of me saying that was 'well might at least go for the tiny chance that they live by saving them and buying the team a couple of seconds, instead of leaving them to absolutely die no matter what'.
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yeah but... here we get into the definition of tunneling, if you unhook someone in the killers face, its not tunneling if they go after the injured person, of course they are going to and its on the unhooking survivor that this is now happening.
Its up to the unhooking survivor to wait for a better moment to go for it.
But you are not buying the team a couple of seconds, infact, you are wasting time, 2 survivors are doing gens or healing or whatever, meanwhile you do nothing but a pointless unhook, if you helped those 2 survivors with healing or the gens you would have bought the team way more time.
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There are potential advantages to being unsafely unhooked, though. You might have DS and/or Unbreakable (the latter of which could come into play if the killer downs you and then goes after the rescuer), or a Styptic Agent you could use. Or, of course, your rescuer could have BT, or the killer could screw up and hit you while you still have invincibility frames from the unhook, giving you a chance to get away. Basically, as long as you're on the hook, you have zero chance of surviving without outside assistance. As soon as you're unhooked, your chances of survival rise. They may not rise by much, but they're no longer zero.
While it's true that sometimes going for an unsafe rescue is suicidal, that is not always the case, and there is no way for the game to reliably tell the difference between a bad play and a seemingly suicidal but actually great play. There are just too many variables. So hook rescues in general should be at least somewhat incentivised, but safe rescues much more so.
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If the killer doesn't leave, then you have no choice but to unhook in the killer's face. Not all killers give you windows of unhook opportunity.
Also you just assumed an entire scenario with your reply to me. I didn't realise there was only ever 1 scenario when it comes to unhooking someone who is about to die :I
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Well for that you have to scroll up a bit as I already adressed that but ill just copy paste it:
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Ok so you help someone out there (hopefully) and they escape, a DS escape can be made to count as a safe unhook should they get away, not that hard to program.
Just make it so that it counts as a safe unhook if they either escape out the door or atleast not get re-hooked within a certain amount of time.
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but to come back, idk, either you think you are going to save a person, or you dont, if you dont well we dont want point farming, if you do but it does not work out, welll....you tried, just like playing the game as a whole is "trying" something, but it does not always pay off which is fine, if it did it would be boring, but why would we reward something that does not pan out.
If I start opening a door but the killer downs me before hand, should I get the full points and the daily open door with survivor X? no, no I wont get that because it did not work out.
But fine fine fine (its not like the devs will do anything with this anyway, sadly) I guess if it would make others happy, 200 points for an unhook and 1500 extra if its a save unhook, why not.
Yes.... if the killer doesnt leave, its a lost cause.
Do you want to be rescued while you know you are going to die and you are just struggling on the hook for some last extra points and buying others time to escape, only to have some survivor rush up to you, get you off the hook, get downed, then you get downed, you get hooked and die, bye bye your struggle points but hey more points for the camping killer.... and they get another hook as a nice bonus.
That is just playing the game all wrong, its silly a pointless and you reward killer behavior you dont even like to see....
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As another users have told you, there are times where "safe unhook" is not possible. Sometimes a player risk his game (let's suppose open gates and killer with NOED) to save you, because they are very altruistic-
I understand some people are hook farmers and can be annoying (that's why the devs changed the requisite for WGLF from "unhook" to "safe unhook") but there is not much that you can do it about it. And you need to think that not every unsafe unhook is a way to farm, some people really wants you to escape or try taking the hit for you.
There were a lot of times where I had not BT but the unhook was worth the risk sometimes (because being camped since the start of the match it's not something that I could call fun), and as the save was too risky generally the killer used to think that I had BT wich leads me to take their place in the hook and them to go away freely. I am trying to say that not every unsafe unhook is with bad intentions or "to farm you".
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del
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Yes and I get that, and if you take their place and they get away, then you did a safe unhook and you will get rewarded the points for that.
However, if you attempt it, knowing full well this could go the wrong way but you are just so altruistic...well then what is the problem? either you succeed, they get away, you get the points and probably take their place orrrr they die (and you probably as well) and you get no points, you tried but you failed, why would that be rewarded, do or do not, there is no try.
Altruistic means you want to try to safe them, are you really then going to say "hey, im not even getting points for my failed attempt here?" because if you do it really wasnt about the atruism that you saved them.
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I suggest a reward in blood points for safe unhooks instead of punishment for the unsafe. Also a quality of life change for solo surv new player can be a blood points reward for borrowed time, like bbq and chili.
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Ok but then if a person hits ds makes it a safe hook rescue then people farmed in the beggining that use ds will give the points back to the farmer, so just keep things the same way
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it is tunneling if the unhooker offers the replace but the killer ignores him. Tunneling means to get one survivor out of the game as fast as possible. If there is that one doing the unsafe unhook, you could simply hit the unhooker before and after the unhook and take an easy exchange. If you want to tunnel, you go for the unhooked and bring him to death hook, which might need another chase if you don't know about BT is active or not
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