Is NOED really that radical?
I hear a lot that, "NOED users have no skill", which is exaggerated and wrong. Then I hear, "What, do you need an insurance perk?" and that statement better defines how strong NOED is. But why is it so "overpowered" when compared to other killer perks, and I should add, survivor perks? Being a hex totem, NOED is naturally a throw away perk of survivors decide to cleanse totem, and with this gen speed I'm sure they'll have more than enough time to do that AND finish all the gens in 6 minutes. Devour Hope, another Hex, allows you to 1-shot as well and even Mori people, so why is it not considered "overpowered"? Rancor gives you Exposed and Mori as well, even if it's only one survivor. Survivors have Dead Hard, which is an insurance perk, though you'll scarcely hear it be called that. It even gives you invincible frames. Adrenaline to me is overpowered, because it's like two perks in one: It gives you a sprint burst, heals you a full health state even from the dying state and while on hook, and is activated merely by completing the gens. NOED is like the counter-Adrenaline since it gives you speed and Exposed. If you ask me, NOED is simply leveling the playing field.
With those examples in mind, that brings me to my real question: Why do survivors get to use overpowered perks without any flak, but when a killer does the same, it's a crime?
Comments
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Because people can't think outside of a box of looking and cleansing NOED when the killer is camping the hooked person.
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I don't know why there is so much hate for it. People talk like it will take down 4 survivors after gens are done, if that happens then it is the survivors fault. A killer should only be able to down one survivor, two max thanks to noed.
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The issue with NOED is that it is too impactful against solo survivors/low ranks, and too weak against SWF/high ranks. Playing as a solo survivor, you have no idea how many totems are done. You can't run around the map hoping you'll find a dull totem just in case the killer has NOED when there are gens to do and randoms to save. Low ranks will be slow to do gens and bad at chases, so they will go down fast and be unlikely to even make it to the end game. These people will feel the effects of NOED the most and it honestly sucks to be in their position.
If it's a SWF team they can communicate how many totems are done, where the totem has spawned, etc. High ranks will keep personal track of totems, know the totem spawning spots, and if someone is downed due to NOED in the end game, most survivors here will just run out anyway.
From the killer's perspective, NOED only helps against teams that play poorly, which are teams you don't need any more help against. If you struggle with pressure against a good team, you might get a single pity kill out of it before it's cleansed or everyone leaves. If you can apply good pressure or the survivors are bad you'll probably get 2 or 3 or even 4 kills before end game happens anyway, so there was no point in having NOED. It's a perk that doesn't help you in the places you need against good survivors.
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The only time I think Noed is a waste of a perk slot is on a Killer that already has an Insta-down. Billy's chainsaw, Bubba's Chainsaw, Myers (except for scratched mirror), and the like.
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So you're saying there's no in-between? The good survivor teams and the weak ones? I find myself a lot of matches where I have NOED, not needing to use it. Then there's matches where I had to use it or else I wouldn't have gotten those endgame kills. I try to not bring it because it's a Hex and it's totem gets removed immediately or before it spawns. But out of desperation to beat red rank survivors more consistently, I've been using it.
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Sometimes I'm just not confident with a chainsaw, or the map makes using one difficult, so I'll run NOED on them anyway. Same thing with STBFL.
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Maybe, but it's my opinion and I've played this game long enough to learn that people will run what they think will make the match flow into their favor.
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Even as a solo survivor, you can still break any totems you happen to encounter. You dont need to keep track of EVERY totem to break the ones you see. Often times you'll end up running past totems while working on gens and such. Being in a SWF squad and having voices in your ear saying how many THEYVE broken doesnt change the fact that you should break the one directly infront of you. The only thing keeping solo survivors from countering NOED is the feeling that its a waste of your time doing the totems because others are probably ignoring the totems. You end up having a full squad with this same mindset... Just because you dont want to track down all 5, doesnt mean you shouldnt cleanse the ones you already see.
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In my experience (and this is a game balance problem), there isn't really an inbetween. Map design, addons, offerings, items, etc. make this game pretty imbalanced so it's generally a steamroll either way. There are a few games that feel balanced, and I think NOED would be more applicable if game balance could allow for more of those games.
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I do this and NOED still procs. In fact, what ends up happening is the easy-to-find dull totems will all be cleansed and one obscure totem that's near-impossible to find will be left and become the NOED, making countering it difficult.
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Well the problem in general of DbD will always be the imbalance. This point can not be fixed easily as I explained in many posts regarding Game Design.
It will always be a dieing stimulator for newer or casual players, while it is more like the Roadrunner cartoons for red rank SWF.
The current balance for the "middle" ranks is the one that satisfies most players, which is an OK thing to do.
I understand why they did not add voice chat for the solo survivors. Because atmosphere and feeling.
But i think it was a bad move. Because with voice chat to begin with you don't have the SWF problem to balance.
Regarding to the rank imbalance, the only solution I would see is adding extra challenges for survivor out perks for killers to higher ranks which is an anti thing to do with ranking systems and philosophies.
Also think about that most killers play very differently and it could easily create more killer intern balance issues.
Some perks of killers seem to be imbalanced and are so rightfully.
In an asynchronous game like DbD it is not a game breaker to have things like NOED, etc. Or keys... It is actually designed to be imbalanced.
The only thing i see resources will spent for balancing is map design. For my experience in middle ranks there are certain maps that favour certain killers extremely, while others are very survivor sided.
For example the meat factory is a horrible experience for casual survivor players, because of the 2 floors. Alone the audio is startling here, playing mind games with you.
I think another big issue with balance that could be fixed is the matchmaking that puts skilful und casual players together in matches. I think this is the biggest issue through all ranks.
In general though I would say most people who complain are taking DbD too seriously.
It is not an esports level competitive game.
There are no stadiums filled with players cheering professional squads as athletes.
It is a casual game overall.
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I kinda like when the killer has Noed tbh
It's cool that they get an powersurge right before the end
Personly i don't use it that much unless on very specific end game builds
I just don't find it very effective
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I simply run it on my Freddy because my other perks from the four I use aren't really good haha. It's also handy because I go against like rank 6 and 7s even though I'm a rank 10 so it can be annoying to go against them and I want some kills although my strat is to 3 gen them and I use bloodwarden so I'm toxic
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You should worry less about what other people think and say and build what you want to.
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NOED comes only online at the very end. I prefer perks, that are usefull the entire game.
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This. I usually don't even cleanse the ones I see anymore because it actually makes things worse for the most part. It's honestly best to only cleanse the well hidden totems if you come across them.
Because that statement is usually true. When I go against a bad killer that gets looped for ages, they always have NOED. So many bad killers rely on this perk alone to get kills, instead of actually learning how to play and that makes it an unhealthy perk for the game in my opinion.
My biggest problem though is that there is no totem counter in the game so it makes cleansing totems very annoying for solo survivors and all 5 totems almost never gets cleansed unless I get them all by myself (which takes ages). If only the devs cared about solos more.
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I will give the same advice I got when I started playing Killer. I identify the three closest gens and protect them at all cost even if you give up gens on the far side of the map.
My advice is the same always patrol the gens that are closest together or within view. Forget about Gens out on the edge.
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Nah, Ruin is worst, more annoying because every killer has it nowadays. Your team just needs to be proactive and take out all five before the last gen pops.
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I don't think its op at all. I'm a survivor main and well as soon as I see one active totem I clean them all or even if the killer is playing badly I clean them because I assume that a crappy killer is gonna get sweaty in the EGC with NOED.
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I mean if you read what they said their point was yeah you might have seen one but if you can't talk to the rest of your team how do you know they did any totems or how are you supposed to know how many they have done, why would you waste alot of time searching for what may or may not still be a problem in the future?....was that really hard to understand
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And MY point is, if you see one...break it. I dont need to confirm information with anyone to know its a good idea to break it. In a typical match, its rare that there will ever be a totem that DOESNT get walked past. Really the only good reason to NOT break a totem if given the opportunity is if you can correctly identify all 4 of the killer's perks from their actions. Some perks like enduring are easy to notice and take note of while perks like BBQ are mostly educated guesses based off the killers perceived reaction. If I've already identified all 4 of the killers perks before endgame comes up, then I KNOW the killer doesnt have NOED and breaking the totem is just for my own personal points. If theres a mystery perk im unaware of however... even as a solo player, I should break a totem I spot. No info on how many my teammates have broken is going to change the fact that I should break that totem. The idea that anyone is searching the map specifically for dull totems is silly, SWF or solo.
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I love Killers who run NOED. I break totems when I have a chance, so that means they wasted a Perk slot. If it ever activates, every single Survivor in the game is to blame. The Killer is taking a massive risk bringing it, and if the Survivors are doing their job it will never activate. It is perfectly balanced imo. Having a chance to only run 3 Perks vs a chance to insta-down during endgame.
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I've used it as GF and hit all 4 people with it multiple times. Lol. Received some pretty hostile messages after it too XD
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They'res nothing wrong with noed. Infact! The noed totem if not cleared will spawn near a exit gate so they'res a 100% chance spawn of a totem spawn at a gate if you clear the two it's a variable on where it would be located
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I play solo and can't tell you how many times I've cleansed 4 totems and it was a close match with a couple dead because ruin took awhile to find and you luckily got gens done. Trying to make it out hoping that one of your 3 teammates happened to cleanse the 1 totem you could not find!.......but......nope! Instadown game over, lol. And I have noticed when I play killer and use rancor a lot of times the obsession instantly DCs causing a chain reaction of DCs and last survivor just crouched praying for the hatch, lol. Which is most likely the one solo that got stuck with the SWF DC crew since he was the only one that burned an offering and brought an item.......solo survivor is such a crapshoot!
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NOED is the worst perk design in game. Can entirely turn the game without having any input from killer side, and doesnt need any skill (m1 slug them all).
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I can usually tell when the killer has noed because they play like a potato, being bad at pathing and mindgames and maybe unable to catch more than one survivor before the gens are done. Haha good killers dont need noed because they can win before that. Even when the killer doesnt have noed, noed still exisist in the match (at least to a point) - cleanse 5 totems and waiste time or risk being insta downed at the end.
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That's nonsensical. 4 survivor going down to NOED shows a lack of skill on their behalf.
Killer is still loopable and can't be in multiple places at once even with NOED. Plenty
of opportunities to find and break the totem, pressure exits and pick up slugs/rescue hooked teammates.
The amount of skill required to find, chase and get an M1 hit on a survivor isn't drastically reduced just because of this perk. Sure chasetime overall can be reduced because the killer is faster and only needs one hit to down someone instead of two.
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By the time NOED activates the exit gates are almost open. Maybe survivors should actually escape instead of lingering around to farm points. Just saying.
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It has the capacity to take them all down
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Kinda hard to learn when they end up playing loop simulator
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I wonder why everyone brings ruin maybe it's to try and stop gens from being done as fast
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NOED has great potential to swing a game but more recently I've not seen it activate that much at all.
Survivors seem to be doing totems now after all this time of saying that's what they should have been doing to remove the perk.
It's probably why there is hardly anyone complaining here anymore.
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One of the big problems with noed is the occasional inaccessible totem spawns. Usually when that happens it's the only totem left and so people can do nothing but hope they don't get touched by the killer. Even though it doesn't happen every game, there's little in this game that can make you feel as powerless as staring right at the totem unable to reach it.
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Survivors think they won when all gens are done. NOED removes that feeling.
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It can do that, but I would say that the survivors are horrible if that would happen.
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I've never understood the fuss over NOED. Its effectiveness is pretty overstated. Yes, you can win a game if survivors stay aggressive and fail to cleanse it after it activates, but you could also otherwise win that game with 4 perks while gens are up. I usually get one instadown with it in my endgame builds before it gets cleansed. Maybe it's more oppressive at lower ranks, but at least where I'm at, it rarely snowballs like people would lead you to believe.
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I'm solo.
Currently running DS/Inner Strength/Lithe (used to be DH but it's currently unreliable)/Detective's Hunch
My team hardly ever goes down to NOED, I make great BP, and I pip almost every game.
Hrmmmm, I wonder why. I also don't struggle vs Ruin...hrmmmmm
If people don't want to run Small Game/Detective's Hunch/Map, or even just cleanse totems as they see them, that's on them.
NOED is trash against a team with even 1-2 survivors running anti-totem stuff.
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Tru tru
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It feels ######### to play against. You aren't a bad person for running it, but it feels like a scummy perk that gives the killer a free kill that they didn't deserve.
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Just remove the speed boost and I'll be fine with killers running noed. The speed boost is cheap and unnecessary to make the perk worth using. Replace it with reduced missed attack cooldown if you're having trouble finding something to put instead devs.
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Because it sucks to play a whole game and then be insta downed out of nowhere. No one wants to save you, NOED is up. The difference between this and Adrenaline is that the experience of getting downed is much different for the killer than survivor. Especially when you know you have (almost) no chance of getting out. When getting hit with adrenaline the killer can still manage a few sacrafices. When getting hit with NOED, the survivors entire game has been for not.
I know the whole escaping/sacraficing vs pipping debate. It's up to the player to decide for themselves what matters to them.
It's also a different of win condition if your on the side of sacraficing matters to you. Survivors have two; Survived or Sacraficed/Dead. Killer have five; 0-5 kills.
Many players care about how they did (escaped) individualy rather than how the team did, this is always the issue with asymmetric games.
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PGTW + Overcharge is far more effective or even Thanatobia. Why run Ruin knowing it's going to be taken out fast? It's almost like people don't know how to run perks that compliment each other...
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A popular take on NOED is that it rewards failure in many cases. It activates once the killer has failed to stop generators from being done. Are killers still loopable with NOED? Yes, but they are running on bloodlust from the beginning and with the inconsistency of hotboxes (hit through pallets, etc) there's a potential for a cheap shot. Also, at the end of the game many pallet loops are normally used up, making it much harder for survivors to win chases. Perks seen as counters/equals Adrenaline, Dead Hard, and Devour Hope are simply not the case. Adrenaline is extremely powerful in certain cases (3/4 slugs, in a chase and injured, etc) but in many cases it's basically an involuntary Sprint burst. It lasts 3 seconds and doesn't heal because you were fully healed and then you're exhausted for 60 seconds. Finally, Adrenaline rewards the team for completing their first primary objective, doing 5 gens. Dead Hard may be an insurance perk, but it doesn't have the same effect as NOED in that Dead Hard prolongs the inevitable. It allows survivors to either reach a pallet, or avoid a hit that will come in a few seconds. Usually it only extends a chase a few seconds unless it's used in a good spot where it allows a loop to extend. Devour Hope is not on the tier of NOED because it is as easy as ruin to make disappear. People look for hex totems early game especially with ruin (I run DH without ruin because I want it to be stealthy. It still only procs about once every 4 games, and only once has it lasted long enough for 4 moris). Now, for the 4 down at the end of the game, this is usually due to the altruistic part of the game. If four survivors do all of the gens, in their mind they should have a fair chance to escape. Now if someone gets a NOED cheap shot normally the survivors idea is to help the person get their deserved escape. They feel a sense of duty to the one who gets downed because it is a friendly. Now the killer usually is camping that downed or hooked survivor to guarantee the kill and in solo territory it is extremely hard to coordinate the rescue. It usually leads to another down and another hook. In the end, NOED just generally seems to be a crutch perk for killers who are unable to win the game before the objective is completed. Now in certain cases it's justified, especially in endgame builds that sacrifice early game ability for extreme power at the end. Overall though I believe that this perk is not so much radical as it is detrimental. It doesn't help killers learn to be competent in all stages of the game and gives an unfair advantage that leaves the survivors only defense unviable.
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OP Summary:
Killer perks aren't OP but survivor perks are.
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Literally, I find and cleanse (or see its already been cleansed) every single totem in a game. I want the blood points. Literally haven't been hit by noed in forever.
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Firstly, finding totems are rng, so a survivor isn’t always guaranteed to find all totems.
Secondly, if you are a solo survivor, how are you meant to know how many totems your team mate destroyed? So this whole thing about destroying a totems isn’t valid because not always does a totem spawn on you, nor does it tell you how many totems are left. Unless you are saying a survivor should spend the entitle game looking for all the totem.
Adrenaline activate once a survivor does all their objective meaning there is some effort needed for it to work. Noed can just pop by you standing still the whole game and waiting for a survivor team do all the gens. Then once that‘a done, you can just use blood warden with noed and pretty much end the game in a 2k or more by doing nothing at the start.
So when people speak of noed being “op” or for “noob killers” is because it doesn’t require you to do anything and still give you an higher chance of ending in a 2k. So I think what should happen, is that a killer should require to hook a certain number of survivors for it to feel more deserved.
let’s look at it like this, if mettle of man could appear by a survivor doing nothing, would you say it is fair? it’s because the low level of requirement to use it, which is what made it got nerf because it didn’t require much effort or skill then it does now. So to put it simple, old mettle of man is pretty much noed for killers.
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It's a perk that requires communication and team work to prevent, but also survivors are constantly told & dodged by killers for doing those things.
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