an analysis of what makes the SWF 4 stacks so annoying.

tronixton

So I got matched as killer to the quintessential cancer stack. All 4 of them had a flashlight. I only got one kill. It was annoying, they knew every pallet, they loved the shack. All of that is fine in my eyes, since I can react, and those were simply outplays. What annoys me was the fact that whenever I picked them up, I would get blinded. How it makes sense that you can be blinded in an uncancelable animation where you look down hurts my brain. I think that you shouldn't be able to be blinded as killer until you have them on your shoulder, and ergo have any amount of autonomy. Otherwise survivors bodyblocking hooks is just way more effective than it should be. Usually one hit scares off the blocker, but if survivor can unhook from any direction, can killer hook from any direction? These are more QoL than anything else, but what do you think?

Master

Flashlights are a flawed mechanic in general.
When the clown was introduced they said that the gas doesnt actually blind survivors because it is annoying not being able to see where you are going. That killers have to go through this forever, they didnt even bother

Visionmaker

If you're starting the lobby with 4 flashlights, you should be using Lightborn and/or Franklins, facing a wall, or proxying the body for lurking survivors. Flashlight saves have already been nerfed, so being demolished by them is indicative of how better the four stack was than you as players. As it is now, Lightborn makes flashlight saves almost impossible.

Hooking from all directions is not necessary, and unhooking from all directions was not implemented as QoL. Bodyblocking survivors is a finite strategy, while a bodyblocking killer is infinite and uncounterable.

The point of the survivors is that being and working together makes them stronger. But the only annoying things you mentioned are counterable, and isn't only the product of a strong team, but also your own poor choices.

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Milo

Not almost impossible. There isn't a window for a flashlight save

tronixton

In hindsight, lightborn would have been great, but I just dont really want to pour 30 levels into Billy. He doesnt suit my playstyle. And the animation blind isn't counterable. As soon as he was downed I was being blinded by 2 flashlights. If I took the bullet and didn't pick him up, he'd get healed, and if I picked him up, he'd be flash saved. I will concede the point that directional hook is frivolous and mostly pointless, but facecamping is an easy way to lose anyway.

Runiver

@tronixton said:
So I got matched as killer to the quintessential cancer stack. All 4 of them had a flashlight. I only got one kill. It was annoying, they knew every pallet, they loved the shack. All of that is fine in my eyes, since I can react, and those were simply outplays. What annoys me was the fact that whenever I picked them up, I would get blinded. How it makes sense that you can be blinded in an uncancelable animation where you look down hurts my brain. I think that you shouldn't be able to be blinded as killer until you have them on your shoulder, and ergo have any amount of autonomy. Otherwise survivors bodyblocking hooks is just way more effective than it should be. Usually one hit scares off the blocker, but if survivor can unhook from any direction, can killer hook from any direction? These are more QoL than anything else, but what do you think?

Here's the easy solution when playing against a 4man SWF with flashlights.
First, get LIGHTBORN and NOED
Second, get one guy down and hook him.
Third, hardcamp and just hit/slug people around.
Fourth, kill the remaining people (if there is) with NOED once it activates after they failed to save.
Fifth, throw a "gg wp" and leave the lobby instantly so they cannot spill their salt all over the chat and are forced to swallow it back and consider what they did to deserve such a poor match.

Enjoy yourself.

P.S.: If you don't have Lightborn, just dodge. There's plenty of cattle to slaughter other than bully squads.

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Peanits

I don't have any issue with flashlights these days. You can face a wall before picking someone up to hard counter a flashlight save, and as of the mid-chapter patch, the pickup animation is so much faster that they have practically no time to get in position. They'd have to already be there waiting for the save if they want a chance. If you can't face a wall, check around, make sure nobody's there. Otherwise if you just pick someone up out in the open knowing that they all have flashlights and are waiting on for the save without checking first, you're just sabotaging yourself.

They're super predictable once you get used to it, and it's very easy to counter.

samirk98

Well devs want to nerf sc and ds they already nerfed exhausting perk and pick up animation and i would like to say go ahead the swf will never get nerfed and stay the same lol 

Boss

@Master said:
Flashlights are a flawed mechanic in general.
because it is annoying not being able to see where you are going.

They said that?
Lol, okay: It's annoying to have that happen, but it's not annoying to have a bright white screen burn your eyes at 10 PM or later, or just a dark room.
Point: Just make it fade to black. Doesn't look realistic, but you got a demigod stabbing humans with spider legs on meathooks, so whatever.

Master

@Boss said:

@Master said:
Flashlights are a flawed mechanic in general.
because it is annoying not being able to see where you are going.

They said that?
Lol, okay: It's annoying to have that happen, but it's not annoying to have a bright white screen burn your eyes at 10 PM or later, or just a dark room.
Point: Just make it fade to black. Doesn't look realistic, but you got a demigod stabbing humans with spider legs on meathooks, so whatever.

Even if it was a blackscreen. Devs argued that not being able to see where you walk would be too anoying for the survivovrs to imeplement such a killer power. (it was in some of the live streams around the curtain call DC when they talked about clown powers, maybe the first one after the release)
Guess its ok for killers though because they are 2nd class players

campasaurus

tronixton said:

So I got matched as killer to the quintessential cancer stack. All 4 of them had a flashlight. I only got one kill. It was annoying, they knew every pallet, they loved the shack. All of that is fine in my eyes, since I can react, and those were simply outplays. What annoys me was the fact that whenever I picked them up, I would get blinded. How it makes sense that you can be blinded in an uncancelable animation where you look down hurts my brain. I think that you shouldn't be able to be blinded as killer until you have them on your shoulder, and ergo have any amount of autonomy. Otherwise survivors bodyblocking hooks is just way more effective than it should be. Usually one hit scares off the blocker, but if survivor can unhook from any direction, can killer hook from any direction? These are more QoL than anything else, but what do you think?

survivors enjoy that.  if anything, expect more of the same.

Visionmaker

@tronixton said:
In hindsight, lightborn would have been great, but I just dont really want to pour 30 levels into Billy. He doesnt suit my playstyle. And the animation blind isn't counterable. As soon as he was downed I was being blinded by 2 flashlights. If I took the bullet and didn't pick him up, he'd get healed, and if I picked him up, he'd be flash saved. I will concede the point that directional hook is frivolous and mostly pointless, but facecamping is an easy way to lose anyway.

It's counterable by perks and the facing walls... With the new timing, you have to be in much closer proximity to the killer too (to get there within 2 seconds), so you can easily find them within reach after downing a survivor. Getting blinded by two flashlights is also harder than just flashlighting alone.

You were demolished by higher skilled players, and by the fact that you chose to attempt no counterplay. It's not because of SWF. A solo player would still accomplish the same thing.

You not wanting to get Lightborn to counter 4-man flashlights is as valid as survivors not wanting to get Urban Evasion to counter the Hag, Nurse, and Trapper. If you don't want to change the way you play, then you can easily default to using a perk that completely negates flashlight saves.

Peanits

@Boss said:
Point: Just make it fade to black. Doesn't look realistic, but you got a demigod stabbing humans with spider legs on meathooks, so whatever.

This was actually mentioned recently on one of the streams. That's one of the things they're planning on doing (not a confirmed upcoming change yet, just on the list). Not sure if it'll be darker by default or if that'll be an option for those playing in dark rooms.

@Master said:
Flashlights are a flawed mechanic in general.
When the clown was introduced they said that the gas doesnt actually blind survivors because it is annoying not being able to see where you are going. That killers have to go through this forever, they didnt even bother

Certain lighting effects (flaming barrels, indoor lighting on some maps) do not handle large amounts of blur well. Good players still know where they're going anyway, but newer players would just find it frustrating. This is contrary to playing killer where a survivor blinding you mid chase still allows you to track them via sound (a skill every good killer should master), or in case they get a flashlight save, it really does nothing because you're stunned for the duration of the blind anyway. The blinding of the flashlight is the core of the item, whereas for the clown's gas it was an added extra, with the main attractions being the slower movement speed, action interuption, and detection ability.

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