Hatch should only spawn with <5 gens done when there’s only one survivor left.
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Now what about OP Key's!
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2 or 3 survivors CAN escape. They just NEED TO DO THE GENS. You know LIKE NORMAL.
Because too many times there have been games where SURVIVORS COULD HAVE ESCAPED but ONE SCAREDY-CAT decided to hide forever or camp the hatch and basically force the other survivor(s) WHO IS ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME to die to end the match.
The way you keep harping about keys, I’m honestly getting the impression you like to piss off killers with them or you yourself like to camp the hatch. There really is no good reason for the hatch to spawn when survivors have died and gens still need to get done - it just encourages toxic or cowardly behavior and the midgame hatch escape is unearned.
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I dont like to piss killers, if moris get nerfed, keys should.
Both end the game prematurely.
Try harder next time :)
And then what's you're point?
You contradict yourself everytime you say something, if you're CHANGING hatch mechanic you should specific if keys are not being changed by this.
Your title is
"HATCH SHOULD ONLY SPAWN WITH <5 GENS DONE WHEN THERE’S ONLY ONE SURVIVOR LEFT."
Basically what anyone will understand is that you need to repair 5 gens and be the last survivor to get the hatch.
EDIT YOUR TITLE :)
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My title literally says what I have been saying all along - the hatch should spawn when there are LESS THAN FIVE GENS DONE (didn’t you learn about the lesser/greater than symbols in school?) when there is ONE survivor left.
if you STILL had trouble reading and understanding the title, do thr reasonable and logical thing AND READ THE POST.
Learn reading comprehension! It’s elementary, Watson!
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The title is correct. <5 is "greater than 5".
So the title is "Hatch should only spawn with greater than 5 gens done when there is only one Survivor left".
Your interpretation would only make sense if it was LESS than 5 gens or >5, but it's not.
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"Hatch should only spawn with <5 gens done when there's only one survivor left."
"Spawning it when gens still have to be completed by 2 survivors makes it really unfair for 1 of them, because as it stands currently, scaredy cats will hide or hold hostage and force the other survivor to effectively kill themselves to end the match. You know, instead of the last survivors trying to get out alive together."
All what I understand, is that you dont want the hatch to be spawned when there's 2 survivor left, since they should the objective both.
Yet you still say this doesn't do anything to keys.
How would I escape if 2 survivors are left and I have key?
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<5 means less than. Google it. Remember back in school, your teacher taught you that the alligator always eats the greater number?
Can my thread please stop getting derailed by this nonsense?
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This reasoning is falty. A problem with one aspect of the game does not justify other aspects of the game.
Just because issues are similar doesn't mean they are actually connected. Both should be solved regardless of the other being solved.
The only time changes justify other changes is when there is a direct interaction between the different mechanics.
For example:
- If NOED is changed then DS should be changed - Invalid. DS has nothing to do with NOED and a change to NOED doesn't effect DS. So anything justifying a DS change would have to exist independently of NOED.
- If NOED is changed then Small game should be changed - Valid. Small games effect directly counters Hex totems. So a change to a Hex totem can justify a change to Small games ability to counter them where there was no justification prior.
In this case, a change to the hatch could justify a change to Keys. Since Keys directly interact with the hatch and thus changing one effects the other, but does not justify a change to Mori's, because whatever reasons there are to change Mori's exist independently to Key's and this Hatch change. In other words if Moris need to be changed with these changes, then Moris also need to be changed without these changes, and vice versa.
An example of this in action was the change to DS justifying the change to Dying Light due to the Obsession interaction. Dying Light isn't similar to DS, but that's not what makes 1 change justify another. The justification is because the change to DS was a nerf to Dying Light, and thus a rework was needed to restore it's power.
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Op's change - Changes hatch mechanic (spawn mechanic) - which effects keys - and keys = moris
I Hope you understand.
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Personally, I think the hatch should never spawn in until all generators are completed or until there's only one survivor left.
That way, when there's only a few survivors left, the "Scaredy Cat" doesn't always escape because they have to find the hatch after it spawns in. Furthermore, it benefits survivors too because the killer can't just hook and use the sacrifice animation to beat the last survivor straight to the hatch. Now, the killer doesn't get an automatic EGC, the mechanic is now a pure dice roll. 😁🤗
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And then what about keys?
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Hmm, seems like a great idea, and theen moris?
(I already read you're post when it was recently posted?
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Hence why if you said keys instead of Mori's it would have been valid.
But Mori's aren't ACTUALLY equal to Keys.
Rather at most they are equivalent. But equivalent is not equal and it doesn't necessarily mean changing one requires a change to the other.
Remember, these aren't base line mechanics, so more often than not one of them will be in play without the other. So the reasoning of "nerfing Keys = nerfs Survivors -> nerf Killers to counterbalance" doesn't work here, since a nerf to Mori's here as the responce means a nerf to Killers that aren't playing against keys (and thus are being nerfed with nothing to counterbalance it from the Survivors), or are not nerfing Killers that ARE playing against keys (because Killers that don't run Mori's aren't being counterbalanced).
As a more explicit example take Sloppy Butcher and Bottony knowledge for example:
Sloppy makes healing 20% slower, while Bottony makes healing 33% faster. So a change to one of these perks should justify a change to the other since they are equivalent right? Wrong.
Sloppy and Bottony may effect they same thing, but they don't effect each other. Even if the Survivor is running Bottony, you are still getting the full effect from Sloppy and vice versa. You may not have gotten the same total utility, but you still got the same added utility from running Sloppy vs not running Sloppy.
So if for example Bottony was changed to be a +100% speed increase, it wouldn't justify a change to Sloppy. Rather it would justify a change to Bottony, because that change is overpowered or a change to Thanataphobia because Thana is a perk that is actually made worse by Survivors healing faster.
Hence why NOED is connected to Small game, Wake up and Detectives Hunch in terms of balance even though its more equivalent to Adrenaline and DS in terms of function.
And even if equivalency did justify change under the (incorrect) reasoning that equivalent mechanics need to be the same strength you'd still have to use independent reasoning to justify Mori changes, because it's entirely plausible that Keys were just too strong to begin with but Mori's aren't due to being a weaker equivalent of the same thing.
Heck, we could even say that this Key change was in response to the Mori change that made Mori's require a hook first. That way your reasoning is justifying making this change only.
Or we could say that the EGC change which removed hatch grabs buffed Keys thus justifying a nerf to bring it back in line with Mori's.
TLDR: Stop trying to use Mori's and Keys to justify keeping the other as is. It's bad reasoning, it doesn't address why those mechanics are bad and it just makes it so that nothing gets done to either of them.
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You all complain about hatch now but what about the camper killers most of the time the reason for no gens done is cause we all busy trying to get the first person off the hook while the killer camps why cant that be fixed so done with killers just camping or super tunneling survivors so much that we cant even try to do a gen
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That's.. Not camping, that's just you playing incredibly badly.
If you are all trying to get the first person off the hook.. What do you think the killer should do? Your whole team is around the hook.. You think the killer should leave the hook when he knows there's literally nothing else he can do right now since your whole team is at the hook?
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Anyone remember when you had to do at least two gens to get the hatch? pepperidge farm remembers
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Je suis d'accord!
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I play both sides and have to kind of agree. I play a lot of solo survivor so I’ll admit there are so many games where the killer was definitely beating us and I got out with a key, usually in 3 people 1 gen situations. As killer I feel stressed out letting more than 3 gens get done because I know hatch will be an issue, so I try to avoid that happening. I think 3 people 1 gens a bit much. Maybe 2 people 1 gen would be fair.
I know op did not bring up moris but since everyone is talking about them I think they need a rework as well. I think ebony should require you to hook everyone before you can start to Mori. The other two can remain the same.
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3 kills with 5 gens left isnt in every game either which is what your trying to balance here so your argument is pretty invalid
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I play survivor more often since I play with a friend, actually. I don't have a problem with mori's for the previously stated reasons. All I hear whenever someone cries about mori's is exactly that: crying. Boohoo, you didn't get three chances to 4 v 1 a killer with a high chance that at least one of the survivors is likely to DC after wasting the Killers time and juking them out of a kill, possibly more. Every second spent chasing a player that knows they're going to DC if they get caught because they think it's 'bull' or 'not fair' makes mori's that much more fair, and quite frankly, deserved. As I told a salty survivor the other day, it's really quite simple. Don't cry to me about tunneling, camping, or mori's. At the end of it all, if you got caught, that's on you. You weren't good enough that match and got caught. Given how rare Mori's actually are, it's surprising to me that so many get so upset about them.
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I agree but won't happen since crybabies keep talking about mories as though you don't have to get caught twice for them to even work. Still gotta put in work to use mori unlike hatch which takes no skill
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