Devs ask “what’s unfun for survivors to play against?” but do they ask the same of killers?
Killers should NOT be so stressful, disheartening, and discouraging to play when they can end up facing swf 15 levels higher than them who use genrush tactics and infinite loops etc. to go out of their way to act like cocky jerks.
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When it's blatantly gamebreaking survivor stuff i.e. old DS, MoM, instaheals, yes it gets nerfed. It usually takes a disproportionately long time, but it does happen.
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stop crying, you got 1000 of survivor nerfs already. Balanced landing, self care, exhaustion, pallet vacuum etc.
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Killers: Gens go too fast please do something about it.
Devs: SWF aren’t having fun with Ruin, gonna nerf it now.
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So does 1000 of killer nerfs(including Nurse, Spirit, Legion, Ruin, etc) but sure things
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lol, that are only specific killer nerfs, not general killer nerfs. survivor always get as a whole a nerf
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I agree with that. Some say "well Nurse is still the best". She might be, but it is so much more stressful to play her, that at this point it is not even worth it.
I am playing games to have fun, not pull my hair out.
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it's not stressful for me, and I'm having a lot of fun playing her.
maybe get better and you'll enjoy her more?
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Yes, we do ask the question about what's fun for Killers. Hence the changes to insta-heals, Decisive Strike, and some others. :)
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Maybe cause there are no "unique" survivors... Survivors are husks, it´s just a different cosmetic. Except stealthy Claudette.
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Okay, so your next change is going to be make all maps smaller and rework it less safe pallets?
And buff weak killer especially Clown?
Because that's the new unfun for killer right now
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They act like Killers are being played by AI, and all the players are playing as survivor.
Same with Hex Ruin nerf:
""This version of the perk has many benefits" >lists three things that aren't even benefits for killer
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You act like those things shoulve been in the game in the first place.
- Pallet vacuum getting removed? I mean comon dude you cant list that
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Imagine comparing legitimate nerfs for survivors with unnecessary nerfs for killers. I'm glad I can play both sides in high ranks and see the problems without being delusional. This survivor vs. killer war is so boring.
@senki527 "Survivors always get as a whole a nerf" - It is hard to nerf Meg only.. smh
You really mentioned "pallet vacuum". Dude cmon. You can't be serious. It is like the Nurse nerf. Some changes are just logical. If something is too strong or whatever.. It gets changed. Survivors got a lot of nerfs in the past. But all of them were justified. I never lied to myself and said bs like "This game is killer biased mimimi". Double pallets, exhaustion, pallet vacuum.. all of them were BS. Nurse with range addons -> BS. Oni in PTB -> BS.
I don't even know why I am doing this. I can't discuss with ppl which are obviously not in the high ranks on both sides and ejoy both sides equally. Otherwise everyone would have an identical opinion about this game.
GL Y'ALL WITH YOUR WAR
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Decisive is still broken
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Oni's Flick was fun, can we get it back pls? :)
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Sound is broken, DS+BT is easily abusable, gens fly without current ruin, certain maps are gigantic and take ages to patrol, Jungle gyms next to incredibly safe buildings are still a thing, they're nerfing a perk weaker killers like Clown and Legion depended on to have a chance against a good team, Enduring was nerfed to only work against pallet stubs making easily abusable DS that much worse. No problem
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Well that’s uhm... Normal? Survivors are reskins so they can’t exactly nerf a specific survivor you know...
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No offense, @Almo but literally all of those survivor changes were NECESSARY because they were blatantly broken, not so much for killers’ benefit. And I remember for most - if not all - of those survivor changes were met equally with nerfs to killers.
This Ruin change was unnecessary and blatantly in favor of survivors whilst IGNORING the key core underlying issue in regards to Killers using Ruin: genspeeds and a lack of objectives for survivors allowing them to speed through the match before a killer can properly get going.
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ranks showed will get removed because they are inept to fix their matchmaking, speaks a lot about the devs, i personally will move on to another game. this is neither worth the time; nor the money to invest.
for those who stay, enjoy more sjw balance.
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Thats because survivors are just skins...some louder than others but Iron Will fixes that.
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How do you justify nurse changes when you literally say, it is too hard for survivors to hit skillchecks? I am baffled.
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Didn't they just nerf balance landing?
A survivor perk loved by many due to the stagger reduction and wasn't as over used as ruin.
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id give back all the survivor nerfs for OG Nurse (base-kit 3 blink) and OG Iron Grasp, and OG NoED. but nice try tho
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The ones you mentioned, all had instant rewards that undid minutes of a killer progress. They were very unbalanced from the beginning. The changes to ruin are, not well thought out at all. The point of ruin was to force people to go find the totem, only pro players that had the ability to hit good skill checks could ignore the PERK. Now anyone can ignore the PERK until they happen upon the totem.
Since you are tapped in here, we'd appreciate it if you took it up the chain and had this crap squashed.
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So, we're going to compare ruin to Exhaustion and Pallet Vacuums? TOP KEK right there.
As for the others - your mistake, and the reason you're off base, is because the core functionality of those perks *remained the same*. Only part of it was nerfed.
With ruin, it was gutted completely with a BS excuse.
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Insta heals are better now but they are ultra rare and were only problematic when sweaty groups used them, however their nerf was well deserved. Decisive is arguably just as frustrating as you will get DSed even when you didn't tunnel people, so while the change was good it definitely doesn't compare to what is happening to ruin.
Some others not listed, the swamp map change to make it smaller was a good change, but thats 1 in probably 10 maps that need looking at. Theres still cold wind maps, suffocation pit, crotus, yamaoka estate, haddonfield, and ormond that I can list of the top of my head that are too big and some even have more problems after that like all of haddonfield and ormond.
Then like 20 other survivor nerfs that were completely unnecessary such as the balanced landing change, maybe if the maps were better designed the Nerf wouldn't have been needed and it could continue to be a good perk.
And as far as what is fun for killers go, is a 5 second stun coming out of your power fun? Is needing to recharge your power slowly while moving slower than survivors fun? Is needing to walk around the map and watch 3 gens get popped before you have all your traps fun? Is watching 2 gens pop before the killer gets 1 hook fun?
So I ask this all encompassing question, is playing killer fun?
My answer, sometimes but most of the time no. It is mostly frustrating, irritating, stressful, and overall unrewarding. These changes do more harm to this than any changes have ever helped it, and with the dev team seemingly being dead set on doing this change and doing nothing about the broken matchmaking, I feel that the amount of killers playing will be slowly depleting, either to go do something more fun and less stressful with their time, or to go play the actual fun and rewarding side of this game inbetween 30 min queue times.
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You act like self care didn't need to be nerfed. Or pallet vacuum. Pallet vacuum was a free dead hard without getting exhausted.
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Oni's flick is back. Just on the PTB for now
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Um yes actually following nerf upon nerf join nerf to survivors since it all began with exhaustion so, bye sis.
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You only act on problems with easily applicable band aid fixes. In case you're wondering what the real problem is for a lot of the killer cast, let me help you.
MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN. MAP DESIGN.
Can you hear me now? Good.
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found the entitled rank 16 survivor main. killers get nerfed to. and all of those WERE unfair things about the game
BL made infinites
exhaustion, having multiple exhaustion perks during a single chase was VERY strong on top of super safe pallets and loops
pallet vacuum, don't need to explain why this was OP
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we killers have been complaining about gen speeds not being fun
god windows still existing and not being fun
problem maps like mothers dwelling not being fun due to how large they are
survivors spawning on top of hex totems. that is not fun for the killer
all this stuff has been in the game FOR A LONG TIME but they haven't been changed. so you might ask the killers but not as often as survivors. and survivors get priority it seems. also it seems you only nerf survivors on stuff BLATANTLY OP, where if its VIABLE/Meta for killers. it gets nerfed
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Genrush, Totems wiped in the first 30 seconds, and guess what still Decisive Strike?
Matchmaking/ranking being brutally unfair...albeit that is a problem across the board...
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Really
Developer
You disregard the forum community
I was surprised
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The matchmaking is such a huge problem for solo Q players right now. If you are the random in a SWF you can get literal rank 15's as your team when the killer is going to be red ranks. It's awful when your team is going down every 4 seconds.
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As long as the game does not begin to punish the camper killers (for example, losing points by staying close to hooks for a while or hooking back to those who recently left), the game will continue to be broken in their favor, and there is no Decisive strike that do miracles against those who play this way (because this that DS is mandatory to use). Funny is that some people still find DS broken, really laughing.
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a handful of absolutely brokoen things being made into relatively balanced doesn't really account for the massive slew of exploitable things that are well documented to ruin the game for killers. Like, why does sound attenuation break so often and remain broken for multiple patches? There have been periods of time where they work right, but they always seem to be an incredibly low priority. Pair this with stuff like the lack of Colorblind options, the sanctioned approval of gamebreaking comms, mathematically demonstrable map size issues, and a few god tier perks and items getting nerfed kinda feels like small potatos. Especially when paired with viable killers getting kneecapped, bad killers getting nerfed as well, addons getting destroyed, addons being necessary in the first place, and so on.
I just feel like there needs to be a lot more angles of approach for anything having to do with balance and this game. I can appreciate it from a development standpoint, I don't notice a LOT of things that seem obvious without outside feedback.... But thats why its that much more important to gather what insight can be gained from it.
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I would categorize both insta-heals and Decisive Strike as being game-changers that killers couldn't do anything about, no matter how much of an improvement they make in their general skill level (unless you call 'dribbling' as being skilled). The 'nerfs' therefore had less to do with "killer's fun" and more to do with fixing a detrimental aspect of an unbalanced game.
I would categorize Hex: Ruin in a different category, given how Survivors simply had to A. find the Lit Totem or B. make personal improvements in doing skill-checks.
Do you have any other examples?
And speaking of imbalanced aspects of the game that killers can't do anything about, is there any plan on balancing SWF, so that best killers and best 4-SWF of similar skill levels have an equal chance of winning/losing? I don't think killers have a "fun" time against SWFs, and as a solo survivor, I don't really enjoy playing with them either.
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