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Just a comment about the motivation behind the Ruin update
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Survivors actually complain about doctor (me included) but for complete different reasons. He just annoying, the screen flickering, noises, constant heartbeat addon, fps drops... I never heard anyone complaining about doctors anti stealth mechanic besides the typical rank 20 baby blendettes.
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Ok and now I'd like to address the communities concern with this change as best as I can.
For starters you should stop balancing the game around the newer players. We all had to learn the game at some point and constantly babying the new players is going to make the overall skill of BOTH sides plummet drastically.
Second, the new Ruin being "devastating against new players". Good for you. Most of us don't play against new players anymore. Why should the veteran players be punished for not playing with lower skilled players? Do you want us to purposefully derank? Despite stating multiple times via streams that you look down upon deranking? This renders the already shoddy Ranking system even more pointless.
Third, Hex perks don't make it to endgame. Ever. So Ruin being more centered around late game pressure is laughable at best.
Fourth, one of the reasons stated for why Ruin was addressed was because it was popular at high ranks. So instead of asking killer players WHY we ran it, you instead listened to survivors complaining that it was unfun to play against. Because God forbid survivors actually learn totem spawns or how to hit skill checks while Killers are forced to deal with 4 man Adrenaline, Decisive Strike, Borrowed Time, insert another unfun Survivor perk here.
Well I will kindly explain to you why most killers ran it. We didn't run it because we thought it was good, we ran it because we feel the need to run some form of stall perk to actually be able to play YOUR game. Because generator times are ridiculously short. I've seen clips of games ending in under 3 minutes, hell I've even seen a clip where a gen pops in 18 seconds at the start of the match.
I don't care about emblems, I care about actually being able to play my preferred role without the control of the game being swept out from under my feet, and I think a lot of killer players would agree, if we had a choice, we would run a perk that was more fun if we didn't feel inclined to run Ruin.
I have massive respect for the talent at BHVR that managed to build a game that helped me through dark times and has been hundreds of hours of enjoyment, but you guys seriously need to stop looking at the numbers and actually pay attention to what your paying customers are saying. BOTH sides. Not just Survivors, not just Killers. Everyone.
I love this game to bits but you guys desperately need to get your ######### together.
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They are tho, apparently they're going to take the ranks off the tally screen. 10/10 fix. Out of sight out of mind
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It doesn't combo with Surge at the moment. This is something that's being debated.
It's 0.25 charge per second, not %. A gen is 80 charges, so it takes (at normal speed) 80 sec to repair it, as normal repair rate is 1 charge per sec.
So if you repair a gen for 10 seconds, and leave it to Ruin for 20 seconds, it will be at zero again. Ordinarily after a kick it would take 40 seconds to regress all the way.
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So... the new ruin that most people in the community hates for replacing ruin due to it being required (gen speed too quick)... counters other killer perks... why?
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So run this easily cleansed nerfed version of a perk that will prevent you from using perks like Pop Goes The Weasel, Surveillance, and Overcharge so that your kicks actually regress things faster than this perk, or give you bonuses for kicking the generator.
But wait! There's more! You actually USED TO BE ABLE TO RUN THESE PERKS TOGETHER FOR SOLID GEN DEFENSE COMBOS!
But new survivors who had no skill or anything else felt bad. So all of our killer players have to suffer for it.
We have no plans on actually fixing maps, fixing gen times, or fixing killers (unless it's to nerf them). Our priority is new players who feel bad about mean ol' red skill checks.
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you should stop making posts about this, your survivor bias is showing. BTW get ready for 100x more posts of people complaining about tunneling, camping, and slugging as well as moris. because after this NOT NEEDED NERF to ruin goes live. all of that will go up by a 1000%. ruin allowed people to play nice, no more ruin. let the tunneling camping and slugging begin.
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@Almo this change + the hiding of the ranking system + doctor nerfs (ops, changes) just say one thing: you want to increase your new player base, but don't care that much about the high ranks.
I don't know the numbers, it's very possible that only a very slight percentage of players are high ranks, and this forum is probably lurked and used by them mostly (hence the high rank bias), so economically speaking you would be right to make the game more noob friendly.
But here's the thing, new players come because old and expert players lead the way, by word of mouth, by streaming, whatever - still, it's the current player base that opens the way for the new one.
What happens when the new players become experienced? Will the game still be enjoyable? I really don't know how this Ruin will work out, maybe we are all having a big knee jerk reaction and the game will improve drastically for everyone. Maybe. But if that's not the case? Will Ruin come back? I really doubt that, so what is coming up? A slight nerf to toolboxes efficiency 3 months from now?
Because this is the frustrating part: ok, nobody wants a perk that is used in 80% of the games (..psss, that's why people asks to make it base kit by the way ;) ), but if when you ask yourself why is that? the answer is Because they want to get a good Gatekeeper Emblem! you really seem clueless. Nerf to the ground Ruin if you want, but give us something in exchange, as in every balance change of every good multiplayer game ever :).
If you don't want to slow gen speed, then increase the malus multiplier on multiple people on a single generator, make toolboxes vastly less efficient, buff base regression rate, add a malus when multiple people are working on generators even if not together... whatever, still, do something, and do it soon, not in half a year.
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Are any of you devs even rank one??? do you play at red ranks?? because ruin is most definitely needed the way it is at red ranks on most killers. . why not make certain perks rank restricted??? instead of just catering to newbies you should be taking vets into consideration.
Post edited by ill_Boston_lli on9 -
This is complete nonsense.... Taking away the strongest killer perl and turning it into one of the most dumb things i have ever heard of. Your catering to survivors yet again and this game is suppose dto be fun on both sides. Gens go so quick even with ruin sometimes and you say the perk is opressive????
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The only objective was to make him more fun to play against. He doesn't seem to be any better or worse, aka still low-tier.
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Will surge even work with it? They already said PGTW won't work since the gen is already in regression. I would imagine the same is true for surge.
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How to experienced players "feel" about the change? What did your tests subjects have to say about it?
Oh, there weren't any? You didn't playtest it with experienced survivors?
You're making a mistake by making this change without consideration for the other end of the spectrum and at the same time ignoring the reasons why this perk is used so much.
You're digging your PR hole even deeper by highlighting your testing methods that exclude experienced players.
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Almo literally just said it probably won't work with Surge.
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My problem is the New Ruin is going to do practically nothing against experienced survivors. Killers bring ruin so much at red ranks because literally every second counts especially on killers who lack map pressure.(Especially Trapper since he has so much setup time during which survivors are on generators uncontested.)
New Ruin is going to have no effect on survivors who pound out generators with toolboxes and prove thyself. You get in a chase, down the guy, and by that time 3 generators all pop around the same time.
New Ruin is not insidious since the millisecond you get off the generator, a "CURSED: HEX RUIN" notification appears according to Peanits on the discord so survivors know you're running Ruin.
Personally I'm dropping Ruin like a bad habit and replacing it with NOED.
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Instead of looking at numbers and thinking only about the new players, how about taking your loyal playerbase into account?
Killers ran Ruin because we felt inclined to. Generators are done too fast. If you fix Gen times, Ruin won't be so popular anymore. Instead of nerfing a perk, how about actually fixing the base game mechanics?
I also don't see any discussion about perks Killers find unfun to play against. Things like Adrenaline for instance, or Sprint Burst, or literally any other perk killer players complain about.
Ruin being revolved around endgame pressure is a joke. Hex perks don't make it to the endgame. Ever. End of discussion.
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So we really not going to address/comment on gen speed at ALL? We really not going to look into why ruin had a 80%(80!) pick rate? You guys are one of the most incompetent, out of touch development teams I have ever seen in a video game.
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I don't think this is for new players. I think this is for experienced entitled survivors to guarantee their victory even easier so they don't have to be inconvenienced to look for ruin totem. In fact, the new perk will encourage survivors to stay on the gen because it will regress if they leave it. Survivors to quickly do gens at the beginning and then harass the killer. Then the killer is frustrated, attempted to guarantee one or two kills, then the survivor teams pulls out their perks that are frustrating for killers and they all get out free with borrowed time and DS.
New survivors in ranks 15-20 don't face or shouldn't be facing ruin. The only way this is possible is for the same new killers to buy and level hag or lucky enough to get it in the shrine.
Sorry Almo, you are not fooling me. You guys are not playing killer enough at high ranks and you are only getting advice from survivor mains. You are running off all your high rank killer mains killing nurse, nerfing spirit, nerfing oni, nerfing doctor (changing his true identity), and now nerfing the very perk that was required if you play anything other than hillbilly. The doctor was unique with his static field and I have never once been annoyed with his static field as survivor. I can guarantee you if you don't stop with your ruin ideas, that it will be impossible to play a killer other than hillbilly at red ranks. The others are too slow to move around the map and the survivors can finish the gens too quickly if they don't have to search for ruin totem. Even your dead nurse can't apply enough map pressure.
There is a huge reason every killer wasted a perk slot on ruin. This ruin change affects high rank killers more than it affects new survivors.
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It could -maybe- work as a mid-late game perk if it didn't activate straight away but after x gens or x minutes. Or if it started inactive and could be manually applied to a dull totem.
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And you think this only affects them..you guys said it yourself..this effects 80 percent of red ranks and 45 percent of all games now..you smashed ruin straight out of the meta with 0 regard to what you were doing to killers and docs changes are the same way..3 seconds of nothing after a shock? Then what's the point ? The debilitations are very weak and you even nerfed that...This does nothing to help your veterans..you know..the people who made this game survive?
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Balancing the game around new players OMEGELUL
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"They nerfed Ruin so it wouldn't be hard for new Survivors" PERIOD. I'm not interested in the rest of these weak apologetics and lies to rationalize a decision that's so insanely bad
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How would you combo surge with it? Surge doesnt proc off regressing gens.
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Why not make it not a Hex perk? If all the devs are that committed to it (it's not good idea, I'm sorry.) It would be better if it was no longer a hex. The 2% regression as a hex isn't worth it.
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"They can go play something else"
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In my opinion, keeping the game's history intact is pretty important. Ruin is a Hag teachable. That was the update that first added hex perks and all three of her teachables are hex perks. So in my opinion, to remove the hex part of hex ruin is to disrespect DBD history.
But that being said, new ruin would be a lot better as a non-hex perk. I hope they revert ruin back to normal and then re-add new Ruin as a different perk that's not a hex perk.
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Still won't matter, against survivors that memorize all the totem spawns it's going to be gone in 30 seconds still.
Unless the totem doesn't show as lit or something, it's going to be gone just as fast as old ruin, so I don't see what the point of any of this is. I don't really care either, I never bothered with ruin much because it doesn't stay up long enough to be useful like 8/10 games.
What I REALLY want to talk about, is the absolute malicious decision behind hiding the ranks in post game- the only obvious reason is you want to sweep the matchmaking problems under the rug in hopes people stop pointing it out when their rank 2 SWF gets paired against a rank 20 killer. It's absolutely shady as it gets. That legit scares me, I mean I thought you guys made mistakes but I never thought of any of BHVR as like...lacking any morals. This makes me question that.
I don't think you guys are grasping the damage of trust you are starting to throw away, and for what?
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Ya'll nerfed Ruin. . . and don't even allow New Ruin to synergize with other perks? You folks can't even get your own nerf right. . .
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Very good point about new players not having quick access to ruin.
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unfortunately surge doesnt proc at all on regressing gens. You could get abit of use on it if you down someone near a gen CURRENTLY being worked on, but other than that...Ruin doesnt work too well when paired with Pop or Overcharge either.
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"But make it less frustrating"
Soooooo making it easier? By taking away the learning curve for SKILL checks?
Also less frustrating Mmmmm I hear more bias
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Whilst I'm personally opposed to the Ruin change, I have to know;
Why was the internal decision not to address the underlying problem of gen speeds and instead to nerf Ruin? I'm well aware that it's easier said than done, but I believe a dynamic second objective would've been the correct path.
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I have to agree to this, but I want to throw in something since people are acting like they can't play without Ruin:
It's definitely possible to do just as well as a killer who doesn't use Ruin, if Ruin gets nerfed and suddenly you can't get any great games, that's likely because sadly, the perk was carrying you. I'm currently a red rank killer, main Nurse and Pig — Never have too much of a problem with generators, but admittedly, it's more punishing when you make a mistake. At the end, that is what made me better than a killer who doesn't use Ruin.
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I use it quite abit on my Freddy with the idea of Surging the nearby Gens and Popping the far ones. Its decent at knowing which gens have been worked on recently and possibly giving someones location away, because it will make an explosion at a gen that wasnt regressing before.
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I never said people can't play without Ruin. Of course they can. Hell, I did with old Freddy.
Doesn't change the fact that for 80% of killers, Ruin was a necessary band-aid for poor decisions related to the garbage maps, killer powers, or the over-simplicity of the survivors generators.
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Also, good luck finding a match in the PTB if any are playing killer. See no one in the fog..
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This is actually so crazy that the devs keep making changes that destroy the community this reminds me of the citizens of Pawnee only we're actually right.
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Still havent addressed the actual core gameplay issue and why people used ruin to make up for it
......also havent addressed how you are just hiding your bad MM system even more....
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This post got ratio'd hella hard. Think about this, dev's. Please. For YOUR sake. Not ours.
Worst case scenario for us? We stop playing. Oh well.
Worst case scenario for you guys? We stop playing. Your game dies. No more buying dlcs. No more buying cosmetics. No devoted players. No more money.
Think hard about the direction you're taking. This isn't even about ruin. It's the principle. It's that you people lack clarity. Disconnected from our own game. Think about why we use ruin... is it cause ruin is fun? No... Then I wonder why.... think about it. Hard.
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Can you still kick a generator?
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Good bye crazy game
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No he is definitely worse, its actually impossible to be bias with this one. While charging his power up he is slower then the nurse (90% ms) and afterwards, he cannot attack for *3 seconds*. Also, they nerfed his snap out, destroying any time wasting potential he had. To add the cherry on top they took away his way to prevent pallet and window vaults. He is LITERALLY an m1 killer without a power. Unless you count the tracking device he has that renders him useless.
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No. You cant kick a gen that is already regressing.
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Game balanced around NEW PLAYERS - make game easier on higher ranks. Enjoy your dead game with 500 killers and 20k survs in search with this politic.
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So I can't use PGTW until my ######### hex is gone?
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correct
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just run Pop and forget Ruin exists. 25% from Pop is more than you'll ever get from this version of Ruin.
and in 2 months Pop will probably be destroyed so..
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Too add to that - nobody will trust anything that comes out of that studio, ever again. Deathgarden was a snoozefest of a failure, and if they kill DBD with their negligence, they'll never have another successful game.
As for the matchmaking being hidden with hiding ranks in post-game...I don't expect @Almo or anyone on the team to address this with any amount of truth. They'll come up with a shoddy excuse, just like they did for the Ruin and Doc nerfs; and of course it'll be just as paper thin.
I've gone from thinking BHVR is just a troubled game studio with their heart in the right place to now, after hearing about the attempt to sweep matchmaking issues under the rug, realizing they are a cowardly shell of a studio too afraid to admit they are incapable, or too lazy to fix something.
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