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The hatch
Comments
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What should 4k mean else? And as I said, depends on how you get it. Mori is not the only way to have a quick end. Selfkills or slug to bleed out for example or camping. And also to repeat: I know the current emblem system does not work properly, like killers with insta downs getting punished to not make "2 hits" on a survivor but just one.
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So you think if you facecamp people to death and survivors are dumb enough to reward you for that, you should pip? I think you are exactly in the correct rank and should stay there with a nice black pip, and depip if people get out with that.
And what do you mean with "4k = 4 sacrifices"? Why you repeat that? That is clear. k stands for kills. Don't know what you think I might not get right there that you keep saying that.
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This honestly seems like the most reasonable compromise, since it a) allows for the 'where did they go?' achievement, b) still makes keys useful for end-game escapes and c) encourages players to complete objectives while still giving the last survivor hope for a clutch hatch escape and isn't biased towards either killer or survivor since the killer can't find it before it spawns either.
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Survivors can prevent pips, but what we are actually talking about is survivors you pushing up with pips (at least that is what you expect from the described situation) and that is what should not happen, as you get elevated into ranks you don't belong to.
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You know, I only have one real complaint about the hatch.
Survive with friends groups who strategically mass disconnect after the first down/while losing. They hold out on the hook until their friend says in the voice call "okay I'm on the hatch" then they quit/leave game and their friend goes through the hatch.
Often they will gloat in post game chat about how it was "worth the dc" for their friend with the best item to make it out of the hatch.
I often slug the second last person so I can hunt the last person, to counter this. If a group did not have voice chat outside of game, they would struggle on the hook to give the last person time to find the hatch, but instead I have to contend with people who automagically know exactly when to give up on the hook - because their friend found the hatch or made it to it. And sometimes slugging the second last person doesn't work - the person will dc which counts as a death and the hatch opens. I've had to start recording my games so I can report this kind of strategic and unsportsmanlike DC, and its literally my only problem with the end game collapse - played collusion outside of game to which there is no counterplay because it is strategically based around yanking your internet cord to let your buddy out.
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I say camping is bad play and even a 4k should not get you the pip, which even in the current emblem system is correct. You say bad play should be boosted by bad play, meaning if the bad 4k was achieved by bad survivors, you need to rank up.
I started this sub thread by saying "to not pip, even with a 4k, should be absolutely correct in certain situations" which seems to not be your opinion. Which is ok. I know the emblem system denies pips you deserve. I just think the above mori or facecamping 4k should not let you pip. That would not be a denied pip, if you grant that pip it would be an undeserved pip.
Btw regarding the "4k" term, last comment you said "good killers don't use game wording" if I understand that correctly. By game wording, using Mori would also be a 4k.
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For keys:
I'd notify the killer of the hatch location when it spawns, and give another notification when someone starts using a key on it. 15 seconds opening time with three very difficult skill checks. Only one skill check needs to succeed but failed skill checks add another five seconds. If all skill check fail the hatch stays closed and the key becomes a broken key with the same addons. Other addons can be added that relate to the opening action.
Green Mori: one survivor can be killed once all survivors have been hooked.
Ebony Mori: same as above, and all survivors can be killed once exit gates are powered.
Moriing a survivor gives more bloodpoints which can go above the 32k cap
The actions of unlocking the hatch and moriing a survivor cannot be cancelled once started.
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And that's teh point we disagree. I think survivors should probably depip in such a game and killer should stay the same. If this boosts the killer up, he would rank up until facing survivors that don't grant free kills. Then you depip from there. I think facecamp killers should stay in thelower rank, as this strategy wouldn't work against better survivors, and thats why there should be no rank up. You should just rank up, when you "overperform"
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My point is that he should depip when facecamping and getting punished for it. What else would be a depip if not that? And that would make him jump up and down in ranks. A good ranking system should just keep you in the rank where that strategy seems to work but not raise you even higher with a mediocre strategy. When you get better than that, you should rank up. No rankup to give you a taste of higher ranked survivors and how they crush you to depip you.
But we get offtopic here, almost could make an own thread for it
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Well, you can find keys within a game/chest but no mori if they do ;)
Anyways, i dont really care about hatch. The only time it sucks is the rare case when there are still 4 or 5 gens left and one escapes. If they did nothing or got stomped that hard they shouldn't get a free escape. Wish it was like the old hatch where it only spawned when at least 2 gens have been completed
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I never really thought about this but I actually agree. Keys and the hatch can be VERY annoying. Especially when you as killer put in so effort into chasing and killing survivors that are sometimes hard to catch (especially if you’re lower in the ranks) and you down and kill one and the other three just jump through a hole and win. It’s not fun tbh
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I did address the key being the main issue. I want your thoughts on 3 survivors jumping through the hatch because they feel like it. It's an action used purely to spite the killer for doing well. Keep in mind this is mid game, gens are still unrepaired.
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So, i have a question for you. For all of those basicly who speak about "deserving the hatch".
Yesterday, i had a game as survivor against a billy. He was very skilled, and slugged the whole team. By that time only 2 gens were done, and i have done them alone.
He then started hooking the survivors, and since he got far out to do it, i belived he had bbq. So i crawled behind a gen to hide my aura, and yes, he didnt find me. When the others have died, i crawled to the hatch, and escaped.
In the result screen, i was that: i was at rank 4, the killer was at rank 6, one surivoor at rank 8, one at 12 and one at 18.
So, please tell me: did i deserve the hatch, because i found it before the killer found me or the hatch, and i did all the work that was done (and had the other survivors performed the way i did me might have escaped), or did the killer deserve a 4k, because his tactic worked out, even though were was a high skill difference in his favor with at least 2 survivors, which made it basicly a 2v1 game highly in the favor of the killer? Which result would ahve been "fair" in your opinion?
Its a fact that the hatch is a thing that keeps you going even in unbalanced matches. If it were removed, the game would be over if one surivor disconnected or died on first hook and still 5 gens up, so the game could just end there.
But if its about deserving, how about this: Remove keys, and any survivor that did the equivalent of 2 or 3 gens gains the ability to open the hatch manually within 5 seconds. They would have done more than their share, wouldnt it be fair to escape then?
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Nerf keys and moris
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The more I read the balance is obvious and has been for a while.
Killers have 3 gens to patrol at the end, if as a survior I have made it easy for the killer to patrol then then that is my own fault and shouldn't be rewarded with a free escape because I've worked hard on the other gens.
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There are many other alternatives you could have come up with though... The hatch is essentially a flawed game mechanic in the favor of survivors as it grants them a 2nd chance when they failed to do their objective. Killers on the other hand aren’t granted any 2nd chances by game design. Furthermore, the hatch mechanic stimulates slugging for the 4k. In other words, exactly what you just described that would happen with one guy hiding now happens with one guy enjoying the fun gameplay of being a slug while the other one hides and tries to heal them. If they do get healed, nothing changes as the situation will repeat itself. It’s extremely boring gameplay but that’s the result of the hatch because the killer wants his 4k and I don’t think you can blame them because they have earned it at that point. It’s also a game mechanic based on luck and no skill is involved which is extremely annoying in a game where people enjoy the idea of outplaying each other. (Combine this with keys and you practically already escaped unless the killer tunnels you but then they’re throwing the game.)
Keys and mories definitely are a problem, and I really hope these 2 will be reworked or removed from the game later down the line, but so is the hatch mechanic as a whole.
And there are other ways you could go with this, I’m not saying it won’t take time or resources but there are alternatives. Powering the gates once the third survivor is sacrificed for example and completely skip the hatch-part based on pure luck, rather than skill. I’ve seen ideas of a mineshaft elevator on this forum: a standard structure on each map like the killer shack. The elevator would take time to reach the surface and because it’s already on the map, luck isn’t involved. These are just ideas your community came up with so I’m certain that a team of devs could think of some amazing solutions to this.
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Morrs and tombstone are the opposite. Nothing like getting tombstones before even touching a gen. Nothing like being tunneled and mori'd. I personally don't use the key, but, I think as long as those killer addons are there the key is an appropriate counter. Using a key early in a game, just like those addons that I talked about is poor sportsmanship.
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This! Basically a 1v1 endgame chase, the better player wins. This is fair, entertaining and leads to much less frustration for both sides.
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Only if the matchmaking works out. As long as there is a heavy rank and more importantly skill difference in this matchmaking, its not less frustrating, because it isnt fair.
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1) Survivors are not a team.
2) You are not entitled to a 4k if you only got a 3k.
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"During the trial, they are required to act like a team. It's even reflected in how the emblems distribute points. One survivor can not do it by themselves. Therefore - they are a team."
No they aren't required to act like a team. I can go into a match specifically to hide all game and let them do the work to either run out the gate for free or take hatch. I can equip OOO and Bond and rat out other survivors. I am not obligated to help anyone and there are strategies that revolve around getting others killed. It might be in my better interest to work with them, but if push comes to shove I'm leaving you on a hook to increase my own chances to escape. SURVIVORS ARE NOT A TEAM.
"As well, if a killer kills 3 survivors before the gens are completed, they absolutely are entitled to the 4k and should have every advantage in their to get it. They've done their job efficiently and the survivors failed theirs. Your entitled survivor bias is already showing after one post. Don't go down this road. I've seen you try in other threads and eventually you back yourself into a corner every time."
No you are not entitled to a 4k. You got a 3k, that is all. If you want the 4k then slug the third guy, or take the risk that hatch spawns and you find it first.
And BTW killer does have every advantage in a hatch situation. They are faster and have more freedom to move around the map. If you close hatch, 95% of the time the gates are close enough that you can patrol them both to ensure the last guy doesn't escape. If you find the survivor first, you have a high chance to catch them before they find hatch. If you both find hatch, closing the hatch supersedes jumping into the hatch. Killers are clearly advantaged here, stop asking for more hand outs.
If 2 survivors suicide on the hook you did nothing efficiently. You got lucky they decided to give up, and screw over the remaining survivors.
You want a 4k, EARN IT by actually killing everyone.
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Its nice how you completly ignore the question i asked you, because it is a real life example of why these things are not as easy as you want them to be. Still waiting for your statement on fairness.
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Sorry then, i didnt want to rush you. Also wasnt meant as an insult or anything.
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The enjoyment level of playing killer is diminishing. Not sure how much longer killers will keep playing if it's not fun. This game needs some serious balance or it will soon be a memory for casual players, being played only by hardcore SWF squads against masochistic killer mains.
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Hatch + EGC is a reasonable compromise imo. I don't want hour long matches of immersed Survivor creeping around the map. I never did hatch standoffs, I'd just hit them and let them go. Not going to sit around for 30 minutes falling asleep for 1 kill and a couple BP when I could play 3 other games in that timeframe.
Keys on the other hand, they are a bit too powerful imo. Limit them to 1 Survivor per key as was stated earlier, although what you would do with the 4-man escape Achievement I don't know, and that seems fair. I never use them personally, because their primary function isn't worthwhile. Better to have a medkit or toolbox if that's what you need.
It isn't right though to have multiple people escaped because a Killer is snowballing them and they just happened to find, or bring in, an item. 1 item should NOT be that gamechanging. Maybe turn them into an Offering instead, hidden of course, that allows someone to use the hatch if it's spawned. They will complement Moris at that point.
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But the issue with the hatch is that its a easy free escape at no cost at all for failing to do the PRIMARY objective its a cheap escape basically. there should be some consequence for the survivors who failed to get 5 gens done and a reward for the killer doing his job well. which is why im in favour on one of the ideas that just like the gate it takes a certain amount of time to open the hatch so what that does is it gives the last survivor a chance to escape but its not a instant escape and it will give killers a good shot for a 4k which the killer has earned for playing very well.
i will add that the idea will only apply if killers did their job well if it was the situation that 5 gens are done and one of the gates are open then yeah the hatch will be to.
Also wrong way round, jumping supersedes closing in terms of hatch plays unless one of the devs can give us a answer on that area as all my games jumping beats closing
Last but not least for the survivors section you have to play as a TEAM you have to work together to escape if one person dies early, hides all the time then you are going to lose badly hence why swf is so popular atm due to the fact that team work is so imporant in this game. so yes during the trial you have to be a team otherwise it would be easy pickings for the killer
also if you want to escape EARN it by working as a team and get gens done
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so you do want to play against 4swf groups really, because thats the only way to ensure that a team is working as a team.
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that's an exact quote from tru3ta1ent
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They do in identity v and that game is massive on mobile.
If 1 escapes the team failed
If 2 escape the team tied
If 3 escape the team wins.
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