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Is The Demogorgon in a good spot?
I just kinda feel bad for demodoggo and i think he lacks a lot of love and attention, he has a sick aesthetic with a god tier chase music, but something about his power is holding him back. his add ons are worthless and shred is heavily lacking, it's so easy to juke you can only use it to bait, his portals are surprisingly situational, you have to set them up, then you have to activate them, then wait for the cooldown and boom survivors removed them, it's also not instant which is bothering tbh. idk maybe i'm just complaining a lot but what do you think?
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I think he is in a better spot than other killers, but he could still use some love.
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Demo is a great killer. He has map pressure and eats many tiles and pallets for breakfast.
He has a bit of a high skill floor, that's why we don't see him more, but he's definitely one of the better killers. He does not need any more than he has right now.
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Use save the best for last on him and then do like a one-two punch like you would with huntress.
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He is potentially a great killer imo, just harder to master than many other killers.
He needs lots of practice and patience
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He needs to be able to shoot a laser out of his mouth.
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I think he needs some love. Definitely a mid-tier Killer. Not good, not bad tho.
His skill floor is too high for the meagre reward it offers.
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He has some issues mostly QOL and a bug fix or two that would put him in a very good place.
Devs have ignored any requests for such however to current date.
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his add ons are trash.. the only ones worth using are Mew's Guts and the brown increase shred recovery.
He's too loud, "Undetectable" on him is laughable.. already made a thread about that gem
he's fun to play but is hindered by being seen and heard across the whole map and lack of unique add ons
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yeah.. undetectable is too short and his THOMP THOMP THOMP destroy what little stealth he has
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Rat liver is brown and also not bad, green deer lung is his best add on for sure.
Beyond all that though yeah the rest all suck.
His shoulders clipping on loops, shred hitbox being too broken to work if launched from any elevation, his sounds being too loud giving away his location and also drowning out subtle survivor noises are all issues for sure.
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His portals need a massive buff
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If the maps don't change drastically, then I won't consider him to be in a good spot for some time. For those that need clarification, I don't consider 'mid tier' to be a healthy place to linger, especially if you're playing against more optimal survivors. Demogorgon is just 'ok', which means survivors have to make a ton of mistakes for you to truly thrive.
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His skill floor isnt the issue..he telegraphs his moves too much
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Telegraphs, and the lovable (although disadvantageous) STOMP STOMP ROAR ROAR REEEEEEEE after literally anything kinda makes him hard to miss.
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I would LOVE a change to his add ons, Mew’s Guts and Deer Lung are his only decent ones imo. Perhaps some tweaking with how he has the stealth ability of a T-Rex would help too.
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He looks better on paper than he pans out in actuality. I still think he needs some buffs to portals and to his "Undetectable", as well as reworks to a lot of his addons.
He's just mid tier and mid tier in this game isn't a good place to be.
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His portals are fine and don't need direct buffs, they just need to be improved so you don't have to fight for so long to place them sometimes. The problems come from the addons being so lackluster, undetectable effect from them doing no good,etc
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His base kit is ok but his add-ons are almost all garbage.
He really needs more Shred add-ons as well as more noticeable effects for his Portal add-ons. His URs need complete reworks.
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Yeah, Rat Liver, Mew's Guts, Deer Lung, black heart I guess if you have to.... that's about all that is worth even taking. Watch them instead of buffing all his other addons just nerf those ones lol....
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"undetectable effect from them doing no good,etc"
This is part of what I'm referring to in regards to buffing portals.
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Yeah..it give survivors too much info of his activities..plus circular loops negate his chase ability
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Fair enough, that and them not flickering between you can and can't place them would help.
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I've had them placed next to walls where it wouldn't let you use them either.
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I struggle to do well with him but lack great perks on him as well. I know he can be a massive pain to the last 1-2 survivors alive scenario since he can camp the gates or last 3 gens very easily.
I think he could better.
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Rotten Pumpkin is ok for a Common add-on, but yeah. That's still 5 add-ons put of 20.
Hopefully they give him some love, not the Legion treatment. :p
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Yeah I guess, but with mew's guts being a yellow and common enough I've never even had to use one, same with black heart. Both are alright I guess but they are commons so yeah that's fair. I mean I've used rotten green tripe when I have nothing else or with deer lung, so I guess that brings it to what 6/20?
Everything other than deer lung from green up though is just a waste.
Man I want him to get better add ons so ****ing badly. More things to have fun with.... like Myers, he has good ones.
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I don't understand this "his skillfloor is too high" mentality. His power is basic. Its easy to understand, and its easy to use. Its also easy to play against and easy to lose with considering how bad it is. Shred can shut down the shack tile pretty well, but other than a few of the tighter maps, all you'll really be doing is baiting with it. And a portal network takes so much time to put down that you'll usually end up never getting to use it more than once before it gets ripped up. The cherry on top is a boatload of worthless add-ons and shred inconsistency as pallets.
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Did you already saw trapper? It pretty easy to disarm his traps and he spend a lot of time placing it. Trapper is in a worst position
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This discussion is not about Trapper, if you want to discuss him you would be better off making a new topic.
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I was only saying that he is in a worst position than demogorgon. Also I like the demogorgon, I just didn't bought his dlc yet
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he is in a good spot if we consider a balanced map.. good antiloop power, fast traveling, sinergy with corrupt, sbtfl, pop, some ppl just didn't put enough time mastering him.. the major problem now are the maps and genrush, wich almost every killer is affected
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Even trapper has a higher kill rate than Demogorgon though, while both have similar problems. No one is saying trapper doesn't need to be looked at too though; but again this discussion is about Demo for now is all.
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Trapper is the older killer of all of then, he needed to be in this position
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Demogorgon is a hard killer to master and easily underestimated.
It took a long time for me to understand that many killers are very weak at chases but can be deadly at right circunstances.
It portals can give a easy 1 hit if properly placed out of the sight of survivors but close to where they are. Survivors will always be back to where they want to be.
Survivors usually like to remove the portals. So I usually place one close to another at strategic places so I can ambush the oblivious survivors.
Demogorgon can monitor whoever is close to a yeallow portal. That way one may protect totems or other strategic places. Usually it is best if you teleport indirectly to your target. Survivors may always try to break a strategic totem several times, that way you can always ambush them by bringing them to a place where you are strong.
Overall, it may be a deadly killer if buffed up with the right perks but it is relatively weak against good loopers, so you have to lure the survivor away from its loop mode by understanding what does the survivor want to do (gen, unhook, gates). Master the shred to cut chases is hard but can be very rewarding when mastered and fake preparing it usually confuses the survivors.
Common mistakes is placing the portal close to gens instead of using the oblivious advantage to get close to them, wasting the portals too quickly, not placing portals near gates, not using shred while the survivor is vaulting at windows or pallets.
As any other killer, a strong SWF team can be overwhelming.
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Open up a thread on Trapper then and say what you want to say, but it's off topic here for now.
He has some quality of life issues though, and his addons are not being used at all I literally have hundreds or more of ultra rares, purples, greens, etc.... on him because there is no point in using any of them. It's less about buffing him too much and more about making things actually useful, otherwise he feels like less of a killer than others.
I imagine some of it will buff him to some degree, but he is already in the middle or just under the average in performance so it shouldn't have too much of an effect and put him over the edge, just fixing his addons, sounds, maybe some of his shoulder/shred hit box issues, making portals place without a fuss....all that would be more than enough I think.
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@Echorion if we take a balanced map he is fine.. i know some add ons are useless but i prefer them being like this.. at least we don't have an add ons depenent killer.. we just need maps to be fixed..
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I disagree strongly, balanced maybe, but fine as is not so much. He definitely has some QOL things to look at and some things that need tweaking, a good share of it won't affect his overall performance or will do so a negligible amount, so there isn't much reason not too.
Also add ons while they would have a large affect, don't even have to be strong to be fun. They should at the bare minimum be useful compared to much lower ranked add ons.
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@Echorion what change do you propose? i think his shred is fine, it requires aiming prediction and timing, it shuts down many loops and most of the strongest surivivors jungle gym, people say it's easy to dodge when it's really not, since you can wait for survivors to get stuck in some points or in the animation of vaulting before shred them.. the portals requires tactic too, like put double portals in case they break, trying the 3 gen strat with pop/corrupt..so early game it's easier to patrol, late game you got portals in case gens are far away from each other.. honestly with the right build i don't what he lacks
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demo is pretty awesome and has probably the best chase theme in the game.
Shred is great for cutting many loops and ending chases quick, demo is one of the few killer that doesnt really have a problem with shack loops because of shred.
His portals are pretty hard to use properly, but once you learn where and when to place them they become a lethal tool of map pressure and gen control.
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His shred is fine for sure, I mean I agree with everything you said, as a demo main myself it sounds like you've played him enough to grasp his gameplay. (Like you said, there are a lot of people saying he sucks cause ___ and don't even play him, and it's frustrating. They try and derail topics going BUFF SHRED and shred is brutal strong when played well)
Thing is it's just the small stuff I already mentioned, he doesn't need much at all. Some tweaks so his portals are not so finicky to place, like when you move one pixel and it goes no, and you move a bit and it lights up you can and then goes no again; and it's wasting valuable time as you try and get enough space for it to take- on cramped maps this can be especially aggravating.
His shred has a hit box that is located like, below his actual claws for some reason and his claws swoop inwards, so what this means is that if you use shred from an elevated surface, or on stairs sometimes even, anything like that- your shred will hit a survivor your claws will go right through them, but you will still miss. The only time it will hit is if you were aiming below their feet because the hitbox is higher than it probably should be.
Some of his sounds are too loud, like his gurgle noises and such he makes, actually drown out survivor sounds that you REALLY need to hear if you are against good SWF groups, you need that audio but his personal sounds are louder than most killers and they drown them out. A lot of his sound in general are very telling of where he is, what he is doing, etc... It makes a lot of surprise play very difficult at times.
Those are main quality of life things I would like fixed, the only things that would really affect balance are the addons, I think some of the greens and purples could use tweaks, but the iri ones would be better off replaced entirely.
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I am a Demo Main,His basekit needs a slight tweak,Because his portal placing speed is very slow and his portal opening speed is also very slow.His worthless add-ons needs a rework,His portals needs to do more than just using for transportation and finally his Undetectable status effect should mask his Footstomps.
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Agreed on everything but his add ons could use some love but I think other killers are more in need.
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All the posts pointing out his flaws, and forgetting the game is balanced for rank 15-10 survivors.
Why else would they make his teleport take ages with a map wide signal that he is using it and a giant flashing light with a demogorgon slowly forming out of the hole.
It is the same with Freddy, only he can use the baby carry to his advantage and fake it, while demo can't.
They do it on purpose and will never change it.
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They already do more you can use them to detect areas or apply status effects...the problem is both are connected to the same problem that the addons around those factors are not very useful.
His portal placing and opening speeds are fine, also could be addressed with his add ons as improvements to them like how deer lung (which helps with the opening speed basically indirectly btw) does.
His noises though yeah they are too loud and too obvious, they give the survivors too much information while drowning out their subtle noises.
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Demo's biggest weakness is dedicated servers
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His Undetectable status effect should mask his footsteps and his add-ons definitely needs a rework,Other than that I am fine with him.
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Demogorgon is very underrated but could use some quality of life:
1) Demo can now cleanse it's on portals
2) reduced stun when breaking pallets with shred, it's actually faster to break it normally
3) Undetectable lasts longer and makes foot steps silent
4) Demo's loud foot steps reduced from the killer's POV.
5) Addons reworked to be more useful
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1) That's intentional for balance reasons and for making you think about them more. It is not needed, if it was done there is no reason to do it until after all the things that need to be done are, and then sure, if he still needs more maybe, but I doubt he would.
2) is a little iffy. Thing is it's only longer if you dead stop, they drop a pallet, and then you start charging of the abyss to shred, in general it's the same time but in performance of a double action.
In a chase if you lunge with shred, and they drop pallet, depending on your and their timing, you will either get pallet stunned, hit them AND break the pallet, or just break the pallet cutting out a moment before you stop to start breaking normally. Either way that is way faster and more efficient than getting stunned and then having to break it, or hitting them and then getting stunned and having to break it.
He already can eat pallets like nobodies business once you learn the timing well enough.
4) His gurgle/hissing as well, it drowns out survivor noises like grass movements and such.
Other than that I agree.
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@Echorion yeah that sound like good qol changes, you should make a thread about tagging peanits.. the thing is that i don't think they will touch him, because kinda like huntress he's balanced, when huntress is the first one that defintely need some qol changes, like more speed when she's out of hatchets, and maybe passive reaload, since she's not fit imho with the current state of the game or maps, especially now that ruin will be pretty much gone
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