They're thinking about removing ranking all together
This is from one of the developers discord in one of their bed channels , idk which one but I quote :
"@everyone Early Monday morning. Since we've already started, this week's DbD discussion theme is: Matchmaking. Should ranks just be removed and have matchmaking pair anybody it can?
As always, discuss in #dead-by-daylight and remember to have fun and stay civil :)"
And now let's take this to the forums, if they were to remove ranks all together how negatively would that impact the game? On the one hand it'd solve the Que time issue slightly. On the other hand the game would be even more of an uphill battle for newer players due to them possibly being ranked against players of a drastically higher skill level.
Then again this might be the discord where trying to have a discussion about perks gets you banned so, idk
Comments
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Sounds like a bad idea, new players will suffer quite a bit if this does happen.
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Removing ranks so that people can stop caring about them to begin with.
You got gamer joe bragging that he is rank 1 on both sides and therefore his opinion on a subject is above all lower of him because he has over 6k hours into the game!
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With the current ranking and matchmaking system, we are already kind of experiencing what it feels like to just match everyone together, no matter how skilled/experienced everybody is.
The only people that have fun in this scenario are those who enjoy stomping weaker players.
Having no ranks at all would worsen the situation. The right thing to do would be to take the time to come up with a good ranking system and then match players properly with each other. If then there is a lack of killers at the end of the day, the devs will have to make changes so that more people want to play killer.
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They can't remove ranking though, it's tied to steam achievments
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It would go against their reason for why they reworked Ruin which would infuriate players who were already upset about it.
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Yes, they should remove the rank system. The advantages are...
1) Lower queue times for both sides.
2) We have frequently multiranking plays already.
3) Ranking does not mean much nowadays. I am a rank 1-2 survivor, sometimes I play horribly, sometimes I play very well.
4) Mixing good and average survivors helps the make the killer experience more balanced. A full team of pro loopers are almost unbeatable.
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the ranking system they have now is not working.
not only the matchmaking, but how much rank correlates with skill and ability, the problem is that just removing it will be worse. The game has a fairly high learning curve.
A killer of any sort of hours against a team of yellow rank survivors is a joke, and although i dont have the data, i would imagine the yellow/brown rank players are a sizable majority of the player base.
it needs a proper mmr/elo or even skill-based matchmaking. just throwing everyone into a pool is just chaos.
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So, nerf Hex: Ruin "because it hurt new players" (supposedly), then turn around and end the Rank system entirely instead of fixing it and matchmaking... which will only hurt new players.
It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for 'em.
Hadn't they already spoken time and again about reworking Ranks and making rank rewards? Did they not defend not changing specific details in the game, citing the inability to change achievements through specific console(s) (point being, there are achievements tied to ranks, so how could they remove ranks but not fix other parts of the game tied to achievements)? Didn't they just recently discuss overhauling killer ranking to be character-specific, which would in itself be a vast endeavor?
Would like to know more details on exactly what dev supposedly stated this and the context therein, because it feels extremely contradictory to their official position on Ranks. Don't get me wrong, it would follow in-line perfectly with many other bad decisions on their part and I wouldn't put it past them, but I'd still want some more details.
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They should remove the ranking/pip system that we can see, and just keep it as an invisible matchmaker. They don't even have to change how it works, just make it more precise, and stop us from seeing it. Plenty of other games have an invisible MMR, after all. That way people can stop being toxic about rank, and actually play the game *gasp* for fun, but some poor rank 20 trying out Nurse won't get thrown against top tier sweatlords.
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That would affect more than just new players. Even experienced players would be affected if their teammates arnt good enough. In DBD, the most dangerous thing on the map is very rarely the killer, lol. Its the guy unhooking you without BT while Bubba is following him revving his chainsaw.
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Solo q in general will suffer a lot, and they already have to deal with boosted potatoes in red ranks. Can you imagine how much fun it is to be paired with actual rank 20s against a sweaty tryhard rank 1 spirit? Yeah, good luck having fun with that one.
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That would be fine in theory, but as it stands...matchmaking has been busted for several months now. Making the ranks invisible isnt gonna fix that.
Another problem would be that even if you dont SHOW ppl the pipping system, it would still be there. If I demolish a team in record time, my rank (whether visible or not) should go up instead of placing me against the same ranked group the very next game.
These are all examples of such matches. I demolished these teams and the game is telling me that I should go against those same difficulty teams the next game too instead of tougher opponents. For some reason, the game's pipping system is harsher on some killers than others. I could easily pip as Legion by just running around the map and stabbing ppl repeatedly. They cant do gens fast if theyre mending, and Im getting points in malicious and chaser REALLY fast. 4 Ppl escaped still, but I'll pip up. Other killers like Trapper, Plague, Bubba or Billy though... you use your power to down ppl, and the game doesnt see that as a good thing. If a survivor steps in Trapper's trap and he comes and plucks them up...he gets 0 chaser points for that. If you pull someone out of a locker...0 chaser points.
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20-1 rank is needlessly robust of a ranking system. 1-5 is perfect with 5 never being matched with 1-3, 4 never being matched with 1-2, 3 never being match with 1 and 5, And swf always taking the average to determine the pool.
Also just give the ranks like 10 or 20 pips. This way there are 5 groups instead of the god awful 20 spreading everyone so thin.
Just removing a ranking system in a game where players are comfortable with grouping is not going to go over smoothly. But I'm starting to think bhvr likes their community in turmoil. So I expect nothing less than turmoil.
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I never understood why there were ranks in first place as game is supposed to be "casual". Also 1 week after rank reset you start to see team mates that makes you wonder how they can tie their shoe laces.
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Well, at the moment I would also say ranking and matchmaking and rank reset doesn't work at all, so removing it or let's say deactivating it for the moment wouldn't make anything worse in that regards, it would just increase queue times.
However, if ranking and matchmaking would work properly, it would, at least I guess, also fix queue times. So I would suggest to deactivate it for some time just so see if it helps while working on a proper match making and ranking.
The only problem I see right now: if they ask such a question, it looks like they don't really have an idea on how to do this properly.
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Honestly, even with the ranks it feels like there no ranks because the matchmaking systems are so ######### up
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If they did this they wouldn't ever get new players to stick around. No way it happens.
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Please no. Having new players more consistently matched up with seasoned players than what already happens now would be a nightmare for the former and unsatisfying as heck for the latter.
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Solo survivors: Weaker. Easier to rank up so seeing this already but will be even worst.
Killers: Stronger, average & destroyed Decent killers will beat teams with weak link. Weaker killers have an average game. *
SWF(&Comms)*: Even stronger. SWF group's on comms have the power role in the game. BHVR appear not to recognise this as there is no balance for these groups. They are more than a match for the best killers in the game never mind beginners but SWF groups are very popular whether it be 2-4 people.
Introducing no ranks also would mean an increase in SWF as solo/small swf groups would find the experience unsatisfying.
I realise not all groups are sweaty but how often has the killer been identified before being seen or knowing who or where someone is being chased.
Having no rank, I do wonder if balancing is a thing of the past and new things CV happening like Ruin being changed are just the norm now
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No rank is gonna be cool and all not really but when are they going to fix how exp and bp are earned? "Tunneling" seems to be encouraged and so is constantly trying to be the center of attention for the killer
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Personally if they removed the ranks would probably put the final nail in the coffin for my interest in the game. It would turn the game into another Friday the 13th.
I play at red rank 1 not for bragging rights, instead because I enjoy playing against good killers (players). Not every killer at red ranks is good at the game, but when you get a game against good killer it's a lot of fun.
For me I find playing against a bad killer incredibly boring (I don't understand why people derank). Staying at red ranks reduces my chances of going against a bad killer.
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Before rank reset I was a red rank killer but playing against good survivors isn't as fun as going against good killers.
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It will confirm that this game was not nor will ever be competitive.
That will be a tough pill for many to swallow.
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I'm not really sure how I feel about this. On one hand removing ranks would greatly help matchmaking and maybe I could actually play more then 2 killer games in an hour but on the other it really isn't fair to new players to be with expirenced killers.
My solution would be to have a grace period for new players where they put new players in a pool of new players for a certain number of matches so that the noobs can get a grip on the game before being thrown into the rest of pool.
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To be fair, if we removed ranks, gamer joe would brag that he was rank 1 before ranks were removed. It's the same with hours played, tbh. Like unless you're a lump on a stump, you're going to eventually hit at least purple ranks. It's a pissing contest regardless who says what, when, and where. It's all just a flex on your legitimacy, authority, knowledge. If it's not one thing it's another:
"I have five billion hours played so I know what I'm talking about."
"I've played sixty-thousand matches so I know what I'm talking about."
"I'm rank 1 so I know what I'm talking about."
"I was red rank before ranks were deleted, so I know what I'm talking about."
"I hit red rank on my 20th hour so I'm automatically a pro and know what I'm talking about."
What honestly should happen is that ranks should be invisible. And more spread out. And should be based on both hours played and win/participation ratio.
200 hours played and you've got high wins but low participation? You're probably not that good, let's put you with players who also don't try that much and you can all faff about until something clicks and you actually start doing gens, learning to lure the killer, do some unhooking, etc. low wins but high participation? you're probably just unlucky, let's get you with some players who can carry their own weight. Somehow placed against really good killers/survivors? After a few straight losses in a row the system should evaluate your score and bump you down a peg, maybe you've hit that glass ceiling and you need a bit more practice before we challenge you again. Win a few more games and you'll probably get bumped back up. And after a certain amount of hours played, it would stop counting all the old hours you've played when you lost constantly, and your average would stabilize a lot more, probably even go up steadily if you keep doing well.
But this would all happen in the background, so while I say all this stuff, you'd have no actual knowledge about how the system is figuring out where you fit in the overall system.
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Still don't understand why we can't have two modes, unranked and ranked.
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You just described what they are planning on doing? Hiding the MMR though will piss a lot of people off and will hurt their "stream community" since they won't have any actual source of external validation. In all honesty, matchmaking is the least of our concerns. If they implement the system, they're not going to pair you with whom you should be paired with. They're going to pair you randomly, and if you get paired with a rank 20 killer and you do horrible....you'll lose a lot of invisible points. And if you do incredible vs the rank 20, you'll gain the smallest bump. They've already stated this is how it's going to be. So, who cares. What they arbitrarily decide to be "good" at the game may, or may not, actually line up with what the playerbase feels.
There are so many issues with this game, and until they take 3-6 months to fix bugs, ways to prevent bullying/stalling/slugging/tbagging/whatever...it's just gonna be the same ol' stuff. Queue times are a problem because of the number of players, that's it. That's why a lot of red ranks get paired with green rank killers, especially on console.
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I legit just got a game with 2 red ranks and left me to die after being chased for a gen and the exits being opened... not to mention I got in a chase only because I saved one of them from the hook. So ya it feels that way.
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I would be all for removing ranks entirely. Along with the Emblem system that goes along with it. We shouldn't be hardcapped at the Bloodpoints we can get per trial either. Nor should there be a BP cap at all.
Everything is such a grind, I don't know why it feels like they're so stingy with giving out points on things.
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I think it's a good idea as long as players with less than 100 hours have sbmm of some kind.
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If the game didn't have ranks, it would lose a majority of it's playerbase. I am sure dev's are more than aware, the majority of the players that stay consistently with the game are more competitve players than the ones that jump on every few months for some chuckles.
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Sounds like a dying game right there. When you remove any semblance of matchmaking fairness, you give up on growth. What happens when new players join, and get curb stomped time and time again? What of the mid tier players who just want to play instead of having to sweat? High rank players that want a challenge, instead of going against low/mid tiers.
But then, didn't they say that rank wouldn't matter with the new matchmaking? That their 'hidden' skill stat would be monitoring that?
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Hours by K/D ratio, plain and simple imo.
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Killers need to slug nowadays to stall the game, otherwise it only lasts 5 minutes.
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The problem with matchmaking is that all of the ranks are too close together. I have hit rank 8 survivor this season and as someone who hates playing survivor, i can tell you, i should NOT be rank 8. I suck with survivor. I haven't unlocked any DLC survivors, i have none of the meta perks other than dead hard, i don't know the maps and pallete locations well, i usually can't keep a chase up for more than 20 seconds.
The fact that i can hit rank 8(about to be 7, still going up) despite the fact that i play so poorly is just proof that it is too easy to rank up in this game. The game has not demanded that i play well in order to rank up, at all. Too much of your score comes from doing things that might not even help you escape (or your team escape). Survivors are OVERLY rewarded for unhooking people, regardless if the killer is only 15 meters away, which does nothing except help the killer. As a killer main, when someone unhooks someone immediately after i just hooked them, now i dont even have to spend time looking for another player or checking a gen, i know theres a fresh player that just unhooked somebody right there. Of course if they have borrowed time, it would be an exception, but it seems like most of the time that isn't the case.
Other than needing MORE pips, ranking up doesn't seem to get more challenging as you go up in rank. At least not until you hit the rank 5+ mark. They really need to require people to work harder to rank up, with each rank requiring more perfect play than the last in order to pip.
The reason that there is a huge discrepancy between killer and survivors ranks in matchmaking is because survivors rank up too easily, which means that there are almost NO low rank survivors for low rank killers to pitted against. So the system is forced to pick from all of the higher rank survivors (sometimes really good ones, sometimes ones like me who don't deserve rank 8 yet).
Basically, the ranks don't accurately depict a players skill level because ranking up doesn't demand skill, therefore proper matchmaking cannot be done until they fix rank requirements.
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Devs: Reduce rank reset so you don't go back to rank 15 and rek new players
Also Devs: Potentially removing the entire ranking system
At first, it sounds like a great idea for me personally. I'll rek some inexperienced killers. But then I realize... I've already been doing that at rank 1. I constantly face rank 11 killers who don't know what they're doing and... It's BORING!
As well as facing noobie killers, I often get really really bad teammates. Urban evasioning across the map, immersed, still scared of the killers TR etc etc. So having experienced all this... do I want ranks removed? NO! Please, no.
If ranks are removed SWF will be more necessary than ever, killers will be easy to play against and playing killer will be boring for experienced killers, whilst frustrating for new killers facing more experienced survivors.
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they could just make it 2 ranks, rank 2 is the beginning rank, new players who need to learn how to play.
This mode is limited in some way to inspire desire to rank up.
Reach all the pre-setup goals and you can rank up to "rank 1" opening the game up fully and being able to be paired up with other ranks 1.
Rank 1 cannot fall back to rank 2, rank 2 is purely a protected baby rank.
There ya go, achievements untouched.
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Killers have been slugging for awhile, long before ruin was removed.
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Aye there's no instant fix. If they were to implement something new the slate would be wiped clean, everyone starts at the bottom again, and over a period of several weeks to months the system would distribute evenly.
The unfortunate thing about the current system is that it doesn't spread out the skill level, it puts you with players who are at your rank(ignoring the broken mess it is right now, just focusing on the concept of pipping). It's very easy to play to lose and still pip up. You don't need to win, you don't need to contribute all that much to the game, honestly. Heal a player twice, get a single unhook, get a generator, cleanse a totem, win a chase, you've basically double pipped at that point. And endgame collapse unhooks are so much more valuable than escaping, especially in red ranks. In red ranks, you won't pip if you play to escape, which feels very counter-intuitive to the idea of the game.
The pip system needs to be demolished. It doesn't put players who are good with players who are good. If you can game the system you can get to rank 4 really easily. I'm not even a good player and I hover between ranks 4 and 5 constantly.
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That sounds like the point doesn't it? Every game is this way and SHOULD be this way. The game should be hard when you start. Idk what it is with you Gen Z kids expecting to be handed everything but back then, we got hard games and we got easy games. That's the way you learn. But this whole SBMM crap, ruins that overall experience especially for the players that stick around for a long period of time. And the way ranks are set up right now is time based rather than skill. The more time you sink in, the higher rank you get. And then you get paired against people who are ACTUALLY skilled, when you might not be to that level yet, but the SBMM system can't tell because it sees two people with similar ranks and assumes that the skill is the same, in which it is not. So no, removing ranks is a good idea because random queuing has proven to have better results and a longer lasting life cycle for the game.
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