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People Really Think This Game Is Survivor Sided?
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Tbh I dont think this is even worth a discussion. To say with side is stronger you first need to set the scenario. Depending on that the outcome differs. I think the best, fair way to base it on would be default survivors and killer. I dont think the killer would have a chance here against evenly skilled swf.
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Capcom, Valve, Blizzard, Riot, Ubisoft, 2k, EA... shall I keep going?
Go visit any of their communities after a balance update, and there's just as much whining going on as there is here.
Not even getting into mobile developers.
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https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoJokCjX7goxDLKGgKtbSAz81yIpy9Vr4
100 optimal matches, less then 10% Of killers managed to not Depip
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Yet there are people with thousands of hours in this game who are still garbage at it. And there are people with a few hundred hours who are gods. Explain that?
There is a natural level on your skill, depending on how smart you are.
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https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoJokCjX7goy1osh2j5jW2bepe1iZAxBU
here’s another 100 optimal matches from the emblem system, in this one 2 out of 100 killers managed to get a pip.
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https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoJokCjX7gozpIVDM1qjmXSC7M1SXSP3C
lastly here’s ANOTHER 100 matches this time all 4 used NOPERKS and STILL almost 90% of killers depipped
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Uh, okay. Because I've definitely never seen or gone against rank 2-5s combined SWF who played very optimally. I was able to kill 2 of them but that was with the last generator there. And you can say that I'm a bad killer and what not. But when people communicate well enough, it's enough to tip the scale of the match. I can go in with a friend he's red rank survivor and I'm purple right now, and we'll win 80% of the games and we're going against either high purple or red rank killers.
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Imagine actually believing Dead by Daylight hasn't been survivor sided since release.
You can tell this is a guy who has never been to red ranks with killer, and possibly even survivor. Survivor is the easy mode of Dead by Daylight. The majority of the community with any knowledge on the game (beyond OMG my team mates suck, I got camped omg killer sided) knows this. It's not opinion. It's objectionable fact.
This post has to be bait.
This, exactly.
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Healing nerf and a big nerf to pallet density are the biggest buffs to killer that come to mind. Now I only started playing DBD in August of the same year, so I'm not quite sure, but I believe pallet vacuum was also removed afterwards.
Then there were some tiny buffs like faster killer pickup and hooking animation. Nerf to DS was a big one on the other hand. Freddy rework buffed Freddy, and we've been getting some very well balanced maps lately. Plus some fairly good reworks to Badham and now Lerys.
I'm probably forgetting some other minor buffs to killers but by far the biggest ones were the healing nerf, pallet density nerf and removal of pallet vacuum.
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Ok? And let me link you a killer player who wins 98% of his games, with no ruin. I must win at least 95% of my games as killer, with the majority of losses being to SWF or keys.
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I said usually, not all the time. You're giving anecdotal evidence and it adds nothing to this conversation.
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Wasn't Marth's record 295 escapes without perks
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How are you literally gonna say "most" maps are survivor sided, and "most" killers are weak, and proceed to say killer is nit the weaker side? My god
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Woooooooow lol
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I play this game almost every day at rank 1, and there's only a handful of SWF groups I recognize. Maybe 100 players total, of the 30,000 that regularly play the game?
If you don't think the matchmaking is borked, I don't know what to tell you.
I haven't even watched, but if it is like noob3's "escapes" then he had 3 people dedicated to sacrificing themselves to get him out. Those are hardly even escapes.
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I'm not laughing at the matchmaking lol
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Then you must be a really bad killer, because if you can't farm a rank 15 when you are a red rank killer, you are just bad at the game. Most rank 15's I see literally get 2 tapped for some easy pop goes the weasel.
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Yeah they die while the 2 rank 1s do all the gens, breaks all your totems and troll at the gate, if not following you around with a flashlight to prevent you from hooking anyone as best they can. Pretty much everything you've said reads like a bait post
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Marth wasn't totally boosted like noob
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Yeah, there's killers running around with 98% win ratios because the game is survivor sided. Every single killer in the game has a 50%+ win ratio because the game is survivor sided.
It's literally only a problem if the survivors you are facing have thousands of hours, know every loop, and you get a bad map.
Other than that, DBD as a killer is typically a stomp on solo Q players if you know what you are doing. Or it's a stomp on SWF with some rank 10-15s when you are a rank 1 killer. I must have played 20+ games as survivor today, and I think 2-3 of them were full red rank. Everything else had greens and purples who just got butchered while I tried to carry the slack.
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So you're bad at survivor, what does that prove?
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DS has been straight sidegraded compared to it's release. Healing nerf did ######### all other than make people just prioritize gens over healing, meaning it's a direct killer pressure nerf as well. Pallet density and map design are still a massive issue, as anyone worth their salt can make a chase last between 90-120 seconds, in which 60-90% of the gens can easily pop. Badham still has 3 god loops (boiler, house basement with haddonmemes pallet spawn, and shack). Those "nerfs" have impacted fairly little at high skill play.
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Of those 20 games, I only died once. And that was because 2 of my teammates DC'd at 5 gens. Try again.
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Probably because the current pip system is garbage and puts players so ridiculously far above where they should be in their rank that it completely ######### the survival rates
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Straw man argument. The matchmaking and pip system is what is. Accept it or not.
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I disagree, I play both sides, I am a rank 2 survivor and a rank 9 killer TODAY (i play mostly survivor, but I've been in red ranks as killer a lot)
I play with the tryhard survivor build: DS, Adrenawin, Unbreakable/Ironwill and DH.
My SWF who has 1k hours, every single one of them, also runs the same build along with BT.
We are good, my solo queues are good when survivors run the meta build, we DS the killer until daylight and unbrekable and BT, tank hits and we coordinate our last gen, just so our Adrenaline will be perfect timed to save our asses.
I can't really image we being beaten by a killer unless we're fooling around, which we do alot, after all swf is all about having fun.
Now, I really feel sorry for killers, because unless they're a god tier nurse, huntress or billy, I don't see how they can even begin to apply pressure, unless they camp hooks (Because lets be honest, slugging is not SUPER effective) and camping hooks agaisn't SWFs will either win the game due to altruism, or lose it because 1-2 will be doing gens and 1 or 2 will go for a successful rescue.
Also, ONE survivor will ALWAYS and I mean always escape whenever the SWF is full, because communication will save each other so one can get the hatch.
Solo queues are different, yeah, it takes 4 big brained survivors to be nearly as decent as a SWF, but I have some real impressive matches which in the end we all heal up and go for the rescue of that one person being camped and everyone will tank hits etc, its beautiful.
Anyway, I disagree that killers have the power role.
In lower ranks, hell yeah, killers will torture newer players, but once they start learning the loops, damn, they'll easily hold a killer for at least 2-3 gens, specially if the group has toolboxes (which I personally ALWAYS bring to my matches, cause I just wanna win)
If survivors (specially SWFs) are not the power role, then no one is.
Communication wins wars.
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it's not a strawman at all. A ranking system should be skill based, which the current one is not, and matchmaking between ranks depends on that system to work perfectly. When it's bad and rewards people who don't belong in higher ranks with a higher rank, it punishes other people who ARE in that rank with dead weight, and in a game like this, dead weight easily translates into a 3 or 4k snowball. In fact, it's one of the best strategies you can use on Hag and Trapper to ensure it with basement plays, because people will lemming rush as it's another body that can be on gens
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So the matchmaking is busted, causing a top tier killer to win 98% of his games, and yet the game is survivor sided still? That blows my mind.
Maybe 1/3 to 1/4th of my games as killers are completely free wins because there is just a single bad survivor on the other team, who can be freely tunneled out. And they are usually new enough they don't even have DS.
The game is only survivor sided if you are hitting 4 survivors who are all gods. Other than that, it's a stomp.
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If you're playing agaisn't a survivor that doesn't even run DS or "don't have it" then you're most likely absolutely a yellow rank.
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They said the stat is wrong? When did they say it?
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Because when people talk about how survivor sided the game is, they don't bring matchmaking into it, because matchmaking isn't a core mechanic, it's a system that just puts players in a lobby. When people mention survivor sided mechanics, they refer to the fact that depending on the map, a single person who's nearly braindead can easily chain together 5-6 loops and waste 90-120 seconds of your time, in which 60-90% of the gens fly by. Compared to previous ranking iterations, this game rewards a lot of people with pips when they definitely don't deserve the rank up, while also punishing you for being far too efficient. To put it simply:
192 seconds for a non gen rush build = 2 chases and a hook, guaranteed with the potential to snowball.
131 seconds for a gen rush build = 1 chase and a hook, and MAYBE a second down if adrenaline doesn't pop.
Compare that to the 120 seconds it takes for a single hook to go from phase 1-3, and it's entirely lopsided. The only way to speed that time up on the hook, is to repeatedly hook, which requires yet another chase albeit much shorter at usually 15-60 seconds, which when repeated twice (not even touching second chance perks) comes out to 120-240 seconds spent chasing just to get a stage 2 hook. Now, map design, loops, and the killer choice itself plays into cutting down or extending that timer, but it's still incredibly lopsided in the survivor's favor unless you get a snowball with multiple hooks at the same time, which isn't going to happen against a team that isn't full of potatoes.
But sure, everyone else must be bad because you anecdotally only end up against potatoes
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There's tons of red rank survivors who don't run it, and get tunneled off at 4-5 gens. I know because I have to deal with the remains of the game after it happens.
I didn't even read all that. Bottom line, the matchmaking hands tons of free wins to killers right now. And the game is super killer sided against solo Q players, which is the majority of your games. As I said, of 30,000 players, I would guess there's 100 worth a damn who play as a SWF. And you can just play some BS killer like spirit, or a bring a mori for them.
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I agree on the matchmaking, which is why you don't implement balance changes until it's fixed with a proper progression system. That doesn't change the core mechanics being survivor sided though, it just means that BHVR either can't or is intentionally refusing to make an actually intuitive ranking system.
TL:DR on the in depth analysis, all the gens can be done in the time it takes a single hook to progress fully, even with a tunneled chase after the unhook. This is wildly lopsided and indicates that the 4 have the power role in the game rather than the 1.
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When it was posted they said its unreliable due to too many variables Such as:
Items/Addons/Chest key RNG/Mories/bad map spawns for either side/God loops/windows/ 1 rank 1 person with 3 rank 20's vs a rank 1 killer is still a rank 1 game/Ext.
Effectively they don't have the ability to give a 100% reliable datasheet due too the way the game is designed.
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You are only going to lose all your gens for 1 hook if you built your killer incorrectly. I ran a ghostface for 4 gens at the god window on badham today, and he DC'd and was absolutely raging in the endgame chat.
He had save the best for last instead of something like bamboozle. Super greedy. It is the same with a perk build like infectious fright, you are assuming the survivors are bad enough you will be able to chain slug them. When you get punished for your greedy build, you assume it is the games fault.
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I do not run Decisive Strike and I proclaim myself to be one of the best players in the world. 😋
I experiment a lot with both survivor and killer builds.
My main killer is Clown (Hag is my secondary). My main survivors are Jeff, Quentin, Jane, Tapp, and Ace.
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I have to disagree here. DS was so overpowered before it's nerf, now it's much more manageable as killer. The healing nerf did quite a bit in my opinion. I haven't had even one game where survivors never decided to heal, and whenever they do, it now wastes more time than it did before. If they never ever heal, that means they are one shot the entire match, which is particularly bad for them if they have to work on a gen that is in an unsafe position or is located in an area where you already broke pallets.
Which also directly takes me to the pallet density nerf. Yes, many maps are still unbalanced, no doubt. But less pallets on a map definitely has helped killers. Especially since you can more easily make certain areas in a map unsafe by breaking all the pallets in that area. Which fits perfect with the healing nerf. This can then make healing more important. Also, the removal of pallet vacuum was a big buff to killers in my opinion.
There is still a bunch of killers that are not quite viable, and many maps that are still unbalanced, especially those that are gigantic or have a ridiculous amount of safe loops, like many of the original maps. I'm not saying this game has achieved perfect balance. But I do think things have gotten much better since the time where Marth made these experiments.
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I honestly think DS is stronger than it was before. You could juggle to a hook, or just slap on enduring and completely nullify it if you cared about it that much.
Now? It is 60 seconds of borderline complete immunity to the killer. Especially if you don't act like you have it. The good thing is, most survivors will be blatantly obvious they have it, so you can play around it.
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SF+End+BE+NOED is hardly a greedy build, actually works out quite well when it cucks people who try to dead hard on the second chase. The problem is, again, map layout. A map can easily win you a match, or lose it if you dont play the Big Four. I do agree with you on the DS bit though, 5 second guaranteed stun with 60 seconds of slug immunity is incredibly strong in the current meta, as it's 20 meters which is almost always a guaranteed jungle gym or pallet loop.
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Also, the new maps are insanely killer sided. Hawkins and sanctum of wrath are total slaughtering grounds for any competent killer. There is basically nothing to work with, and your best bet is to sit in a locker like a P3 Dwight whenever the killer is near.
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Things have gotten better sure, but nowhere near where it should be on a functional level. As it is their ranking system completely skews all data since it lumps potatoes in with decent to top tier survivors, completely skewing that match.
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Actually it was a healing buff to medkits. The only nerf was the insta heals.
They mentioned a reduction in pallet density but they've also said that many times with no significant difference to be noted other than double pallet spawns. That was also a quote for density, not a lessening of the amount of pallets. That change didn't do much.
Pallet vacuum was actually worse for survivor before that recent change. The change they made most recently reduced the animation time. IE the most recent pallet vacuum change lessened the hits through pallets, so a survivor buff.
Killer pick up and hooking animation is extremely minor.
DS went from completely OP to just normal OP now. It is still the best perk in the game by far and still needs adjustments badly.
Freddy is way better, but we are talking about balance in general, not one specific killer. Also, if we're gonna count Freddy then we should count Nurse and Spirit getting hammered down which I would say combined was much more significant than solely Freddy.
Which really well balanced maps recently are you referring to? Hawkins is the only real improvement I've seen so far. The majority of the newer maps are still survivor sided.
Bedham is still for the most part quite survivor sided. It hasn't really been improved much with their changes. I can't comment on Lery's as it isn't even released yet for a final judgement on its balance.
Very little to almost none of this was significant in any manner, much less all the "nerfs" to the killer side that came along with all these that were at least as significant if not worse.
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Save the best is very greedy. You are assuming you will be able to get 8 fast hits on the survivors, but really good survivors are going to make you fight for every single M1. It is only the potatoes who are going to just be giving out free hits for you to build the stacks easily.
Spirit fury I don't like at all, I think bamboozle is a much better chase perk, and it only uses 1 slot. Half the time there are so many pallets on the map even with the spirit fury combo it won't even get you an instadown (it's trash on M1 killers by the way) because the next pallet is 3 feet away. Bamboozle will punish very good survivors because they will get greedy for extra loops, and trapped at loops where they assume they can pull out an extra vault.
BE is assuming the survivors are running exhaustion perks, and that they are going to be injured when you are hooking someone. Which means you are quickly injuring and downing everyone, which is only going to happen to bad survivors, or on a really killer sided map. I don't run an exhaustion perk when I am playing for the team because there is no room for it.
Any slowdown perk is greedy. The only non-greedy perks are chase perks and tracking perks, and NOED. But NOED is kind of a crutch so I don't really care to use it against non SWF.
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Well with survivor the initial grind is brutal. You constantly die and killer is so easy on ranks 14-20 or so. Then as survivors get better and better over time, it appears they are op, especially in swf. Red and purple rank survivors have put in mad time and gotten quite good, and killers often can’t keep up this point. So yes the game seems survivor sided at red and purple ranks, but is killer sided on green and yellow/brown. Throw in a busted matchmaking system and it can be terrible.
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Fair enough on STB, I only pull it out if I recognize a alt lemming swf team. Spirit Fury and Enduring I run to punish survivors who drop pallets earlier than they should or just in the nick of time. It has yet to fail me there, especially on Oni and Spirit, my two mains (Yeah, get that hate out on the Oni, because I know he's hot garbage rn lmao). I actually hadn't fully tested BE yet, so thanks for that heads up. NOED is in there just to ######### over lobbies who come in with 4 toolboxes thinking that they won't get dunked on in the end game altruist rush.
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I don't see why you would ever run spirit fury on spirit, who can basically ignore pallets, windows, and looping for the most part. She is similar to nurse.
The only counter to her is iron will, and you can just put on stridor. It will take some getting used to the much louder sounds of non iron-will survivors.
I will never play without iron will. It is simply too good to either lose a killer in a chase, or be able to hide when you are injured.
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Spirit Fury is on Oni, my Spirit build is BBQ, Whispers, HHG/HDH, and HTOTH/Pop
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It's funny you mention IW as well, my surv build is SB/UE/BT/IW
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I do SB / Fixated / IW / Calm spirit if I am playing for myself. Or I do IW / BT / DS / Deliverance if I want to save my team.
Deliverance / DS / BT let's me play very aggressively, and make up for my teams mistakes, like going into the basement. It is a one shot combo for the most part, but that's really all you need if you play well.
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Yeah, the other dude in my swf runs DS/BT/Del/SC for the low rank grind, he loops while I smash gens. In the higher ranks SC gets swapped out for Adrenaline
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