Decisive Strike Change When?
When is this perk going to be fixed? It is intended as a defensive perk for survivors when a killer tunnels them. As such, it is essentially an ''anti-tunnel'' perk yet it benefits the survivor even outside this context.
I propose these changes for the perk, in order to ensure it stays in the role of ''anti-tunnel'' and not ''anti-momentum'' or 60 seconds of invincibility:
1) Decisive Strike immediately deactivates upon another survivor being hooked. The killer directly chasing, downing and hooking another survivor (even if it's within a minute) is not considered ''tunnelling'' and thus, DS should deactivate.
2) As a defensive perk, it should allow a survivor a chance to escape and regain their bearings (i.e escape, heal). As such, any aggressive actions such as: unhooking other survivors, repairing generators, or stunning the killer immediately deactivate the perk.
3) Should a survivor hide inside a locker and be picked up, Decisive Strike's effectiveness will be weakened by 50% (to 2.5 seconds of stun). As this strategy ensures a stun, it is reasonable for the strength of the strategy to be weakened.
Thoughts? I'm pretty adamant on the first two being absolute. Perhaps the third one is negotiable... but then again hiding inside a locker with no counter play isn't entirely fair.
Comments
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1) No. I’ll give an example...
Survivor is on hook. Killer is proxy camping or whatever. Second survivor goes for unhook before second stage. Hillbilly comes sprinting across, or Leatherface comes out of insidiuos, instadowns second survivor, hits down first, hooks fresh survivor, now first survivor goes back on hook again.
These kinds of situations happen. Killers with instadowns that camp could benefit greatly from this idea. Right now DS is the only way you can ensure you get out of the basement, since you can’t guarantee the other survivor will be running BT.
2) Partly agree. Survivors shouldn’t be cocky enough to go gen rush. At that point they aren’t being tunneled. Not sure if I agree about unhooks again due to campers but at the very least there should be a limit on how much they can do.
3) Undecided either way. Sometimes its exploited, other times the killers deserve it based on the way they play.
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The first one itself is too much. Neutering DS and making tunneling the most efficient strategy as killer again seems to be your goal.
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The survivor who went for the unhook clearly made a mistake here. If you're aware that the killer is camping, especially if it is a Bubba, why are you going for the unhook?
You made a mistake, or got outplayed by the killer - why should he be punished for something the survivor did wrong? Plus, BT does exist.. which would completely remove this situation from ever happening. (i.e the hooked would escape).
The example you gave can go the other way as well. You can ignore the survivor who was just unhooked, hook someone else and watch them come back 30-40 seconds later aggressively (only to be downed) and stun you with a perk that is supposedly ''anti-tunnel'' yet you never actually tunnelled them.
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How long do you guys want to repeat the same unlogical complains?
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Right, because it is fair for a survivor to have 60 seconds of invincibility, yes? It seems giving survivors a broken perk to abuse seems to be your goal.
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Dude, DS needs to exist otherwise survivors have no protection against tunnelers. You want to gut the perk and make it so the killer just has to step in another survivor's direction for a second to make the perk totally useless. How would you feel if PGTW could be deactivated by survivors if they finish a heal?
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No look at my thread about survivor nerfs. I found a way to make DS more interactive and less annoying.
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Tunnelling refers to the killer solely focusing on one survivor whilst ignoring everyone else, even if it is less beneficial for them. In the context of Decisive Strike, if I actively ignore the unhooked survivor and chase another and successfully down and subsequently hook them within 60 seconds, why should the person who was unhooked keep their DS? I didn't tunnel them whatsoever.
It is an ''anti-tunnel'' perk, not ''I get 60 seconds of immunity even if u dont tunnel me lol'' perk.
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DS is not strictly an anti tunnel perk.
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It is intended to be an ''anti-tunnel'' perk yet can still benefit the survivor if the killer actively does not tunnel them.
It is an ''anti-momentum'' perk, as no matter what you do as a killer, they receive 60 seconds of immunity.
It is broken and needs to be fixed.
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A lot of survivors try for the unhook because...
1) It feels crappy leaving someone on the hook to die. It’s not fair.
2) You take a big penalty to altruism if you leave someone on the hook. So survivors are kind of forced to unhook just to negate that penalty.
Its a lame playstyle and often used by people who can’t be bothered playing normally to either troll or get easy kills. Why shouldn’t they be hit with a DS? Its designed to punish players like that.
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Just make it deactivate on hooking a different survivor and that should be fine.
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it should deactivate if someone else is hooked, its that simple
i play surv and killer at reds so im not some "bias kiler main >:("
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It's not. Devs never said you can only use it for "anti-tunneling" purposes. They even stated specifically that if the killer happens to find you AGAIN, it will come down to a strat from killer and survivor.
Also, if u don't seek-out the same survivor it is no longer 60 seconds. Slugging is a good counter, why do you think killers in red ranks effectively use this strat?
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1) It sucks for the killer to be stunned when they didn't tunnel the survivor who had DS to begin with.
2) The killer suffers for camping as well.
Both sides suffer, yet killer seems to be punished even if they play fair.
Even if it isn't recognised as an ''anti-tunnel'' perk, there is no excuse for this perk to give a survivor a full minute of invincibility.
There's no counter play for the perk here. Slug? Well, enjoy waiting for the full minute as generators will pop & unbreakable exists (or other survivors can intervene and help).
Most killers in red ranks just outright ignore the survivor with decisive strike, because it discourages tunnelling.
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Lol here we go again another nerf
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This.
Oh look... a survivor main who doesn't want their crutch perk to be nerfed because they're trash without it.
=)
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As a Killer player...Decisive Strike is fine where it is...this game already addressed the issues old DS + Insta Heals brought to matches & chases....
This game has way bigger problems than this Perk, let alone any Perk atm
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DS is fine as it is
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Watch out! He is going to refer to ruin generalizing you as a killer main even though ruin was never mentioned before!
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Fair thoughts. I cant ignore DS abusers who protect unhookers (BT+DS) or do generators in open, because they have DS, lol.
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Sure, that's why I play against red rank killers who know how to properly counter it.
Here is the direct quote from a dev: " The 60 seconds does allow for enough time to find a killer after being unhooked, but I believe it will come down to a smart strategy in that case."
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What's the counter to Decisive Strike then?
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@OtakuFreak I agree it does suck when the killer is punished despite not tunneling, or not having the intention of tunneling but the survivor throws it in the killers face.
I do hope there’s a good compromise one day. I don’t think the “hook someone else deactivates it” is the answer for the reasons I mentioned but I do hope some compromise is found.
I can’t see this perk being changed for a long time though, if ever. It took them over 2 years to find a replacement they were happy with, I very much doubt anyone will be wanting to change it any time soon.
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Slug. You have an unlimited amount...AND if you don't tunnel, you won't be dealing with 60 seconds, you will be dealing with a shorter timer, so if you slug it won't be for 60 seconds.
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I saw this idea from some topic in this forum:
- 60sec DS trigger countdown after hooked (can even extend longer to 100sec)
- Start anything will reset countdown to 0 (even start self healing also reset)
- Fully healed by other survivor reset countdown to 0 (this will make DS player prefer to have another survivor heal them over self heal)
- Another survivor hooked will reset countdown to 0 (incase you're dying with DS, Killer has to go hook another survivor so he can reset your DS )
- DS doesnt active when u're the last Survivor in trial
I feel there is no counter DS, because you know, either tunneling or unintended, the point of you chase that Survivor after they're just unhooked.
The only way is to limit Survivor action while extend the countdown longer. It will punish tunneler, and its Survivor's decision to reset their DS (do nothing to keep DS active)
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Or you don’t down the same survivor who was just on hook. And you won’t be DS. And if that’s too hard. You can slug them.
If you received a DS then you deserved it
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I agree with points 1 and 2 for nerfing DS. I disagree with point 3 as if points 1 and 2 were in effect, that would mean the killer is tunnelling and the survivor should not be punished for making a defensive play like going in to the locker.
But if these changes did happen I think DS should also get a buff and not be a one time use. It would make the perk very strong but also fair.
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I’m a killer main scrub lol
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I definitely agree DS needs some changes, but...
As other people have pointed out, removing DS when another survivor is hooked just gives the killer the ability to just down and slug the person who was just unhooked, then return after hooking the other person who did the save. I think a good caveat would be that if another survivor is hooked while you're not in the dying state, it goes away, but the timer is still active if they're hooked while the DS survivor is slugged.
Also, the idea that stunning the killer is an "aggressive action" is kind of ridiculous. Are you expecting the people you're chasing to not drop pallets? Or if they're running Head On to not use it? The unhooked person trying to get away and them stunning you are in no way mutually exclusive.
The only part where I think you don't go far enough is lockers. Jumping into a locker while DS is up is literally just rubbing your protection in the Killer's face; it's taking something that should be a reward for the killer, a grab, and turning it into a huge penalty if DS is up. Lockers are the worst because they force a grab, but honestly I think any grab, from vaults, gens, unhooking, etc. should not trigger DS. This would work in the spirit of punishing "aggressive actions" while DS is up.
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Survivors need a nerf to DS in order to help them grow and get better as players. It is a crutch perk and the game will be healthier when it is changed.
I read similar responses from survivors to killers about the Ruin changes, only seems right for survivors to experience the same thing. Stop relying on a perk, learn to get better without it!
DS should deactivate if the user is fully healed, or if the killer hooks someone else. If the killer comes back to the hook and you just finished healing, it’s your fault if you get downed again. You should have moved away.
The fact of the matter is that survivors hold their DS for endgame in order to deny the Killer a kill. They don’t bring it in as an anti-tunnel perk. And don’t say the killer shouldn’t tunnel or camp during endgame when there is one or no gens left. They literally have no options left at that point.
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Let's not change it. Its amusing to see killers proceed to tunnel and camp everyone because one has DS, and fails completely.
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The general counter-argument to this perk is ''just slug'' the survivors. Yet, this isn't a viable counter to the DS because the killer still loses out regardless of what he does:
-If I was to slug a survivor for 60 seconds, then this gives the other 3 the opportunity to complete generators (reminder: 80 seconds to complete a generator by yourself, that's practically 3 generators done because of this perk)
-If I was to leave them on the floor and go for other survivors, then they will simply be picked up by a teammate. If the survivors play optimally, I'll be in a chase with another for minutes on end whilst the slugged survivor goes back on a generator.
-Unbreakable, which is commonly ruin alongside DS completely negates this strategy and makes the killer lose even harder.
''Why would you slug for 60 seconds?'' - because I have no idea how long they have left on the timer, if I just recently hooked someone else and downed the person with DS. Sure, I'll probably estimate that the time is far lower than 60 seconds, but I'll be leaving them on the ground for longer than necessary usually to ensure I do not get stunned.
Counter-play implies the killer has the opportunity to deactivate the advantage the survivor has (I.E the immunity) when he actually doesn't here. No matter what he does, the survivor benefits even if they act stupid.
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I have a better idea. How about getting rid of BBQ and Chili?
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I have to disagree with 1 because the killer can just down the survivor with DS and come back later or camp until DS is gone
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Yes it is fair. This game is far too momentum based for the neutering of perks like decisive strike and NOED. Though I agree with 3 and 2.
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Totally deserve it. Sometimes I litteraly get DS'ed when I don't even renember when I hooked that guy
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They already fixed the perk. It's almost useless now. I can't stand people who say it's still OP. it was OP before, now it's just a perk. I have not been hit by it 1 time since it got fixed, nor have i had a chance to use it 1 time as survivor. The only way that a killer can be hit is if they choose to be hit, or they forgot who they hooked. And the survivor has to force the killer to grab them for it to do anything.
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> deactivation when somebody else got hooked
I had a case of 4 people being slugged and all of them running DS. Don't know, what they thought about, but waiting out DS on all 4 survivors was a weird decision. Might as well let them all bleed out. I don't know why people think that it's fine to unhook people at killers face and have a sure knowledge that you're safe after that. But that's not a big deal actually, and it's completely livable, that's a second thing what's important.
> DS deactivates after getting healed and doing objectives
If survivor is such a potato he gets downed within DS active time with two health states, it's a fair second hook, or he uses DS offensively. Seriously. Instadawns? Why the hell did you heal against an insta downer then if you run DS? Completely ignoring presence of the killer while doing an objective is the same. DS does it's thing.
> lower stun when grabbed (from the locker)
I would say it should be removed. Being grabbed always was an ultimate punishment for being oblivious to your surroundings. Now it feels like the only way to grab somebody from anything is when survivor is baiting you to be DSed. You think a killer gonna stab you instead of grabbing from a gen? Just jump into a locker that was conveniently placed right next to it. To get a middle ground I think killer should drop survivors on the ground after a grab instead of placing them on a shoulder.
In conclusion to all I wrote, my opinion that while DS is a needed perk, it's current state promotes stupidity among survivors, and not being smart. Locker jumping literally screams "I rely on the perk to be saved". There is literally none, zero ways to use this perk "smart". Only arguably decent and fair use I could agree with is getting a hit to save the guy that unhooked you. Every single other way to "make perk work" is stupid behavior except when DS is in place.
P. S.: I see, why it's current state can be thought out as "acceptable" from Devs point of you, because what's more important is "fun", and most "fun" you can get from playing survivor is when you goof around. This perk allows you to take it easy and not be punished for that. But every time when survivor is allowed to take it easy it's twice as hard on the killer.
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I had a match a few days ago where I took off Ruin as Trapper, got a huge map, got gen rushed, and still played nice. Hooked a David as the gens got done, didn’t camp him even though I’d only got five hooks all game. Chased someone else, David gets rescued. He has Adrenaline. I hooked the other person I was chasing, before I can turn around to go towards the exit gate, David is there. I hit him, he unhooks, I hit him again. I go to pick him up, he dstrikes me and runs off to a now open exit gate as I was playing a four stack.
How does that make any sense? He wasn’t camped, he wasn’t tunneled. He rushed back and made a bad unhook because he knew he had a get out of jail free card. Idk how people can play survivor this way. The game is ez enough as survivor. Ever since then if I get hit with DS that person gets camped and tunneled out of the match. It’s extremely rare I get hit with DS because of tunneling. It’s always survivors using it to be toxic.
As for when it will get changed, uh, never? BHVR is all about stroking the egos and feelings of SWF and baby survivors now.
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It's not 60 seconds of invincibility. If i have chased down and hooked some other survivor in even 40 seconds after they got unhooked, then find them and chase them, they will only have 5 to 10 seconds left, and if they jump into a locker right at the end of that time, count to 5 and get them out. It's not as good of a perk as everyone says. It's super situational, and i haven't been hit by it once since it got changed. There is not a single OP perk in the game, and DS is certainly not the strongest survivor perk.
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Are you saying we should nerf a heavily used survivor perk? What sort of madness is this. Just for that I’m going to tea bag you at the exit gate and let you down me so I can stun you with DS. GG EZ
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I agree that it is an anti-momentum perk.
Because a scenario which 2 peoples are hooked right after the first one, is not uncommon.
Apparently some think that if it deactivates after someone else is hooked is dumb.
So make it deactivate if you RUN (fast action) into a locker.
If 2 peoples are downed (not hooked), it could also deactivate, because clearly you're not being tunneled if two go down.
The suggestion above with the aggressive actions grab is also good.
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Last month I proposed this in a topic:
"After being unhooked or unhooking yourself, if you are not the last survivor left and no one else gets into the dying state for 40/50/60 seconds, Decisive Strike becomes active if you get into the dying state."
After reading this topic I would propose this (also, would correct the pontuation of my previous sugestion, that I have now realized it wasn't correct and the order it gets written so it's less prone to error):
"After being unhooked or unhooking yourself, for 40/50/60 seconds, if you are not the last survivor left and no one else gets hooked, Decisive Strike becomes active if you get into the dying state. Decisive strike deactivates if you get healed from the dying state or if you become the last survivor. Decisive strike will not activate if you start performing another action or get fully healed."
The phrase in english might not be clear so I will explain what I mean:
Decisive strike would be able to trigger 2 times per match (1 time per unhook).
There would be no time limit for decisive strike, if you get into the dying state, you would be able to to use it if the killer picks you up.
There would be no free escapes at the end as long as you are the last survivor. This could also be changed (Instead of last survivor) to "If the exit gates or the hatch is oppened).
This would force the killer to actually hook the rescuer before hiting the unhooked survivor. BT would probably become pointless so having a time limit to DS after activating might not be that bad.
If a survivor performs an action like healing someone, do gens, open chests, cleanse a totem, unhook someone, etc... it will not activate thus making it only an anti-tunneling perk. The unhook someone is for those cases where there might be 2 survivors hooked and the unhook should be left for the original rescuer. Because if the rescuer does an unsafe hook rescue he will probably be downed while doing it or immediatly after so he would better have BT otherwise the first unhooked person might suffer for it. Instead of that, maybe something like, DS only activates if the unhook is done outside of the killer terror radius or if the killer is at a distance greater than a certain value making so that BT would work to prevent camping and DS to prevent tunneling only.
An insidious killer camping would have to be aware of BT and DS. A camper would have to deal with BT, since it's hard to know (programming wise) if a killer is camping or if the unhook was just unsafe and DS would be punished by unsafe hook rescues. A tunneler would be punished by DS.
The point is, DS should only prevent tunneling and Borrowed time prevent camping.
EDIT: An insidious camper would actually only have to deal with DS.
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1, hell no, that would never work since the killer could just down you, down someone else nearby, hook them quickly, and ur DS goes, even though you were tunnelled.
2, I'd agree, except for stunning the killer, since that doesn't exactly make it an anti-tunnelling perk... If you're still getting tunnelled and you get one stun before going down. So unhooking, repairing would work, but not stunning.
3, I think it should deactivate if you enter a locker to be honest, in fact 3 and two should merge so it deactivates if you sit on gens, repair a gen, or unhook a survivor.
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Honestly you've made it more complicated than it needs to be. If I were to change Ds I'd make the timer 30 seconds maybe a little longer. If you are chased or downed in those 30 seconds the timer pauses and Ds will not deactivate. If neither of those things happen in those 30 seconds it deactivates. That should lead to only tunneling killers getting hit with it. Or at least mostly only tunneling killers.
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I’m sorry, but “fixed”? The perk isn’t even broken.
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After ebony change
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I play killer and i go against 4 DS and i dont get hit by it, Why?
For me DS change was one of the best changes devs did, It went from unfair perk to killers to be a perk that helps the game fun.
Killer mains dont understand how the Tunnel can damge the game, Tunnling i can say is the worst thing can happen in dbd, So any nerf for DS means Tunneling would increase means the game are less and less fun.
Small price for a greater good.
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OK, let's all agree on this nerf:
Keep the perk the same, BUT...
While DS is active and you are actively repairing a generator, the timer will decrease at ×2 speed.
I.E., If you have 40 seconds left on DS, if you start repairing, DS will expire in 20 seconds.
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