Overcharge and New Ruin
I took a break until the Mid-chapter for self-care reasons, so I didnt experiment a lot, but do Overcharge and Ruin work together or do they work against each other like with Pop ?
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No, Ruin will now automatically damage any generators that're immediately left by the Survivor, so if it was repaired before and the Survivor gets off than it'll be damaged for a 200% bonus regression penalty.
So no, you can't kick an already damaged generator since Ruin automatically damages every generator with progress on it (if the Survivor leaves said generator).
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Work against. Ruin and Surveillance are regression based, they work together. But kick based perks like Pop, and Overcharge don't work. Surge only works while someone is working on the gen. So Ruin blocks pretty much everything else.
But the combo with surveillance is pretty strong, because you get instant information all the time as soon as someone leaves a gen and when someone gets back
EDIT: to avoid confusion. @FireHazard said damage. This is not equal to the kick damage. It starts the regression, thats it. No Kick effects applied
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It's the same thing as if you kicked it, the added bonus is that it gives a 200% bonus regression penalty because of Ruins new ability.
Hence why it's unkickable since it's basically the same if you were to kick it yourself... except worse.
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Ah! But that's why combos exists for such things.
Add Surveillance and you'll have a better tracking perk than BBQ & Chili! While yes PGTW is pretty good on its own, Ruin can still be useful own its own as well, as any perk is.
That's why we combo perks together to gain additional benefits and even transform said perks into another sub-genre of perks, so instead of Ruin just being a generator damaging perk or "Anti-Gen perk" it's now an advanced tracking perk with the added benefit of damaging generators AND more awareness of what generators are being worked on.
Add Discordance on that and you'll know if anyone is doing a cheeky gen completion, if Ruin is broken than Surveillance and Discordance are still useful, it's just that the combo isn't there anymore unfortunately.
But that's the risks we take with a Hex perk...
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Worse than a kick with a perk for it, better than a baseline kick, but with how bad baseline kick is it's really not saying much.
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It is not the same. If it was, it would apply Overcharge for example. But it doesnt. Surge also does not, as it is an explosion, like on a failed skillcheck. There are no perks that simulate a kick so far. Regression is what happens after the kick
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It's the same, kicking a generator normally applies the damaged effect, so does new ruin (except it's better than normal but worse than PGTW). They intentionally made it not work with PGTW and Overcharge to not make it UBER Tier...
If you had a perk that could apply multiple Overcharges and random PGTW effects on certain generators that a Survivor gets off of when they see the Killer in sight, than that'd be broken.
I can agree that it's not the same when it comes to normal kicks working with PGTW and Overcharge, but it still works like a kicked generator... where it doesn't let you kick it again while it's being damaged. It was intentionally designed this way to avoid such a strong combo being made, imagine Surveillance, PGTW, Overcharge, and new Ruin working together... that'd be an insane tracking perk with super strong bonus effects being applied.
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You can't use kick based perks like Pop and Overcharge with Ruin now for the simple reason that you can't kick generators while Ruin is in effect.
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Generator regression and kicking a gen is not the same. Kicking a generator starts the regression, but Ruin does not kick gens. That is why "intentionally" Ruin does not work with Overcharge. You actually say the same as me, right after you say kicking and regression "is the same".
Basically we talk about the same, but to understand the mechanics WHY something applies and something else not, it is important that kicking is not the same as regression.
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It's the same in terms of kicking a generator blocks that generator from any effects afterwards, normal or automatic.
And yes, it's intentionally designed that way to avoid what I said above. I agree that it's not the same in a traditional sense where PGTW and Overcharge work with kicking a generator normally, but I disagree that they're not fundamentally THE SAME in terms of how a generator acts after a kick.
Agree to disagree, that's what i'll end this on.
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To me it's pretty straightforward, Pop and Overcharge activate by the act of kicking the generator. You can't kick the generator, you can't use the perks. Ruin prevents you from performing the act of kicking the generator because you can't kick an actively regressing gen. As a result, you can't use the perks alongside Ruin.
Using Ruin has the same effect as kicking the generator, yes, but if you can't actually kick the gen then you can't use perks that require you to do so.
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It would be cool if you could though, but as said above I believe that's an intentionally design choice for... obvious reasons.
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