Alright gamers, how can we make Pig better? Let's discuss.
In my opinion, Pig is the weakest stealth killer. She's slower than any other stealth killer using their stealth abilities, her traps are RNG-reliant, and her ambush is all she's really got going for her.
First, I'll go over some general game balance features that can benefit her:
- Maps reworked to have a more consistent size. Killers with no mobility powers currently have to hope they don't randomly get a huge map like Red Forest, which is just silly.
- NOED is hidden until a survivor is downed by an attack that would otherwise injure them (so downing an already injured survivor will never show the notification, and attacks like Ambush will not show the notification for no reason). This really only applies to one perk, but it still would be a nice change for killers with non-basic attacks.
- Interrupts (grabs) are more consistent. As a stealth killer, grabs are pretty important. With dedicated servers, you'll often start a grab animation but the survivor just runs away. I'm not saying grabs should be easier, but a failed grab should at least cancel into an attack animation so the survivor doesn't run away without even taking a hit.
Now here are my ideas on how her abilities can be improved:
- Add the ability to perform a grab during the uncrouch animation. This way you won't be able to spam click at a hook like old Doctor in treatment mode, but it'll still be easier to get a grab off a gen or a locker. As the Pig is so slow and many Survivors will see her coming, this change will make getting grabs a little easier.
- RBTs also activate when the Exit Gates are opened, but deactivate when the Hatch is closed by the killer (and will not be able to be activated afterwards). This will make her power actually do something during the end game but prevents a "doomed last survivor" situation. This change works better if Keys are reworked to immediately close the hatch after one person uses it.
- The RBT keys are never in the first jigsaw box. Instead, the key's position is determined after the first box is searched. Searching the first box will cause all but one of the remaining box auras to turn yellow for about 10 seconds. The key will be in one of the yellow boxes. Searching the wrong box will once again reveal the yellow auras of those boxes for 10 seconds. Consistency is important in any competitive game, and this change will make RBTs more consistent. The key will never be in the first box survivors check, but it will also never be in the last box (unless they weren't paying attention and search the box that didn't turn yellow).
- In addition to the previous change, the box that stays white could be the closest box. That way survivors will have to travel further to get to the yellow boxes.
Feel free to share your thoughts on my ideas and/or share your own ideas!
Comments
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The RBT keys are never in the first jigsaw box.
I feel like everything after this line isn't necessary. I think it's completely fine for there to be a 1/3 chance (base kit) to have to search all the boxes. With the rest of that idea, you make it so a Survivor with an inactive Trap only needs to search two boxes before they can just get back to gens. Once they know which box is in, they are basically in the clear and don't have to worry about wasting unnecessary time.
In fact, once an inactive Trap wearer search their first box, they are arguably in the clear because from there, they already know the Key is in one of two boxes, and 2 minutes (this is best case with Tampered) is definitely enough time to get through those two boxes.
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Camp, tunnel and slug. That's the only way.
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Run the new Ruin on her. I found it very useful when everyone is trying to get their RBTs off and all the gens keep regressing.
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Maybe make her crouch speed a bit quicker.
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Instead of the RNG on head traps, the key is always in the third box. This can be changed via the use of Add On's.
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Search one box, then do a gen because from there I only need to search two boxes once the Timer starts?
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Wait there are people who actually search boxes before doing a gen? I don't see a point in finding the key till after the timer starts.
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Seems pretty easy to search one box that is near a gen to guarantee that you only need to do two more in at the absolute minimum two minutes. Rather than searching all the boxes in one lump sum, you break it up into smaller bites before and after the timer starts so you can maximize gen efficiency.
My point is that I personally believe taking away the fourth box is a hefty nerf that would hamper the Pig's stalling more than some people seem to realize.
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- Make her crouch movement speed as fast as GF's. Devs love consistency, so having 2 different crouch speeds is weird.
- Addon rework. They need to have multiple effects, similiar to doctor addons: 1 general effect plus 1 "beartrap"-effect. Get rid of the crouch addons, make their effects baseline or whatever.
- Now that oni is a thing, make her ambush work like demon strike ( click M1 for normal attack, hold it for the ambush lunge)
- Make her stance swapping/ crouch animation as fast as GF's. I dont own both killers, but as far as i remember pig has a lengthy animation with an action bar, similiar to the old doctor stance swap, ehike GF just clicks a button and near instantly is crouched. (Seriously devs should maybe cross check older killers if they implement any new mechanics for newer ones)
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- Make RBT's activate when gates are powered but don't do so when the hatch is closed
- Remove Pig's ability to see where her Jigsaw aura boxes are however let her re-use RBT's that are removed from the head by picking them back up. Only show aura when a survivor takes them off their head and remove addons that give extra head traps.
- Remove the skillchecks for RBT and replace it with a difficult minigame. This is a Saw character after all the skillchecks are pitifully easy to complete and doesn't represent the franchise how I'd expect it to.
- Also can't agree with the "RBT's won't be removed on first try" suggestion but again I prefer the recycle method for head traps. Some maps are too big to need 2 jigsaw boxes minimum.
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While increasing the chances of it being the last box would make her better, it would be an unlikely change as it would be a frustration for survivors.
Note that add-ons that add boxes will also add the amount of yellow boxes to check.
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To be honest I don't even think she needs to be nerfed, She's good where she's at. I just would rather if she was less RNG based. It's laughable when you get a hat, and then the first box you go to you immediately get it off your head and your on gens again.
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I personally think the huge maps should be smaller, as I mentioned in the original post. I have that change in mind when I come up with these changes.
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Yeah I saw I just worded it like that because I believe there's a few other post that said the same thing and I didn't see quoting 3 people being too necessary.
I get why everyone is suggesting it though because RNG can quite literally screw you over. That's why I'd prefer recycling the head traps as I suggested.
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It's certainly an interesting idea that I haven't considered before. Would be funny to see a survivor take their hat off right in front of you, only for you to down them and put it back on.
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Her crouch animation is slow, but not as slow as Doc's stance change and it doesn't have a progress bar unless you go for an ambush attack. They've also buffed it a while ago, so you might have seen it before they made it faster. Still, would be nice to see her stealth ability buffed a little more.
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I'll add some of your things into my hope buff on Pig
-First RBT box never rewards a key
-Missing skillchecks in the Box increases the length to heal
-Broken Key's can be turned into keys for RBT's, but it takes as long as 1 RBT box to fix the key
-Skill checks are slightly smaller
-Amanda's letter should do something better, but I cannot think of a way to change it, I'll edit this when I think of a way
-Make one 1 box be visible via aura before generators are active
-When working on a box, you are affected by oblivious
-Rule no needs to do remove Great Skillchecks from the Boxes as well as what it does now
-Tampered Timer no longer hastens the timer, but now rbt's put on during the exit phase will now tick down
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I guess the way I see it is something like this:
As long as it is possible to search every single Box in the scenario where someone's RBT becomes active before they are able to be unhooked regardless of what add-ons the Pig is using, then I think making the chances of the Key being in the final box a little higher is not an unreasonable thing to do (especially when you factor in that the Trap becoming active is 100% in the hands of Survivors and is not something the Pig can force in any way).
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RBTs should auto-start when used after the last gen has popped, but before EGC begins.
Her crouch/uncrouch should be quickened. This hurts her the worst I think.
I think she should only roar if the Survivor(s) see her during the lunge. Otherwise, it should be silent.
Is it still a thing to escape through the hatch with an active RBT? Can't remember if that was ever changed.
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You can use hatch with an active trap.
As for the roar, I don't think it's necessary and the game seems to have difficulty when it comes to determining LOS.
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You can use hatch with an active trap.
As for the roar, I don't think it's necessary and the game seems to have difficulty when it comes to determining LOS.
The rest of these would certainly be nice.
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Give her unlimited traps or at least double what she has base and make her have to go to a jigsaw box to reload
Timer starts when it is put on but paused while hooked or downed
Shorten timer to 60 seconds but make a box highlighted that guarantees a key, but as far from survivor as possible. Like freddys alarm clocks
Pig cant see boxes auras unless shes out of traps if that feature is implemented
Traps arent armed during EGC.
Pig can legion vault a pallet or window during dash but cant attack with the same dash
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So the timer would continue while the survivor is being chased? That would allow tunneling for a guaranteed kill in 60 seconds.
The pig would also know the general location of which box the survivor needs to check, which also allows for tunneling.
Legion vault is an interesting idea though.
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make her move slightly faster while crouched
make her crouch a little faster
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Music while you have a trap on.
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Noed buff won't help pig, noed isn't even meta.
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I think Pig already moves at the same speed while crouched as GF without add-ons (3.6m/s or 90%).
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Noed is seeing a lot more use now that Ruin is gone.
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Use doesn't = meta
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Doesn't mean buffing it wouldn't change anything either.
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NOED is too endgame I think. Pig is more early/mid (by who's definition? Lol) in my eyes. Her traps are meant to slow Survivors down, and force them off of gens so they don't make their team mate go PoP! They just don't do this very effectively from what I've seen. She can build an effective endgame of course, all Killers can, but the fact her traps have 0 power as soon as that last generator pops makes her extremely vulnerable to Survivors getting their objectives done.
If she really got tweaked, she'd need something that heightens her early/mid game, or else make traps viable in the endgame and build on that.
From the Survivor side, I honestly feel 0 fear about getting a trap on my head. I know I have plenty of time to get it off, so I'll usually go pop a gen, or at least get it to 50% or higher if I'm solo'ing it. The only time I have had an issue is if Amanda is camping the Jigsaw boxes, and then it's pretty much game over so I'll run her as long as I can to let my team mates get gens done.
Her traps are a nice gimmick, but they have no bite and don't do what they were intended to do, especially with the changes to end game mechanics. Give her back some end game potential or make them more punishing in the early/mid game, and she'll be a comfortable spot. IMO at least.
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Add during chase timer doesnt count.
Maybe 2 boxes instead of 1?
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60 seconds is still a very short time for 2 boxes. And the pig would still have a good chance of preventing you from getting your hat off.
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This is probably OP but I'm going to say it anyway... xD
Make the headgear start not when a gen is finished but instead when a gen starts to regress by any means. Yes, I went to the dark side.😈
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Sorry. Key is automatically in one of those 2 boxes
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no support, pig is already good enough especially if you follow the guyy with a trap on his head long enough, guaranteed death in a minute
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Also... as far as a character with an accessory goes... hers seems to be the only one insanely limited. Trapper has tons of traps. Hag can use tons of traps. Freddy can place tons of blood snares. Plague can vomit on a ton of stuff. Etc.
Why is Pig so limited? She shouldn't run out of headgear.
Another idea. Why not allow survivors to remove each others headgear but have it take a super long time or highlight them with an add-on or something or put them both in a broken state once its off. It would slow down the game and that's really important for Pig.
Just an idea. Don't kill me.
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That kinda defeats the purpose of the trap, which is supposed to discourage gen rushing and stall the game.
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Yeah, but when I play Pig I get gen rushed anyway. People don't care about randos and SWFs coordinate.
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The timer stops during a chase. If the Pig is following you, you can just run and a chase will start.
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I would want the party hat timer to get faster each time a gen is done, starting out very slow, taking 500+ seconds to pop but progressively increasing in speed by say 75-100% each time a gen pops. Something that builds pressure off of survivors' carelessness.
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If traps only activated from regression, survivors could just complete gens and leave without the traps ever activating.
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Yeah, that would definitely be a neat mechanic. Maybe the hat could quickly beep three times each time an additional gen is done to indicate that the timer is going faster, so the power is easier to understand for survivors.
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Resource management as pig is fun and doesn't need to be changed. Plague is the only one with no restrictions built in.
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Yes that would be awesome
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They could take a chunk of time off when a gen is completed.
Edit: Or speed it up.
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Only when they're active, right? That would be very difficult to balance properly (too high and it's way too punishing, too low and it's basically useless)
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As much as I would love to see Pig get some love, I don't think she needs all that much to be brought up to the level of other killers.
her crouch animation needs to be shortened down to match GF, first and foremost.
I wouldn't mind seeing some reusability of her RBT's, especially since they are more of a nuisance than anything to most survivors.
and I'd like to see an additional "trigger event"... like unhooking someone or healing someone makes the timer start... it would kinda fit in with the lore a bit better too.
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Her ambush attack is actually really good once you learn how to use it. It's better used to mindgame short loops during chase rather than a stealth attack, but in certain situations you will be able to catch survivors off guard.
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