Do Devs Listen More to Survivor Mains than Killer Mains?
Now I want to start by saying that I play both survivor and killer. I do not favor one over the other and just want to have fun but for those who main killer most of the time have you ever asked yourself or thought about why is this killer or his/her perks are getting nerfed? The only survivor perks that I can recall that got nerfed or changed was DS, Balanced landing and Kindred. With the ruin nerf I feel like this game will not be the same. It will be fun but not the fun that me or the "80%" of people used to have. I want to be challenged by finding the totem the ruin is under (I'm talking about ruin before not now). The devs saying that low ranks can't hit a great skill check is one of the problems. I personally feel like they need to practice in order to be good. It's like they're holding survivor hands more than the killer and hear their favor. As of yesterday (1/21), I've decided to take a break from this game and play other titles. I will be back but when is the question.
Answers
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I'm sorry to hear that, personally I don't think they're taking the Survivor side in updates, since a lot of the updates like Ruins nerf was within reason.
I play both sides but i'm a Killer main, playing Survivor against Ruin was like a meme to me, i'd say things like "So... is it ruin this time?" and i'd do this because it was a pretty dominant perk in Red Ranks for the longest time.
I may not agree with all of the changes, but I agree that the perk was heavily used in Red Ranks which made perk builds a lot less... unique I guess.
As for how the game is right now with Killers and Survivors it's hard to say where they lean on the spectrum, they just buffed Doctor and changed a lot of things around to benefit Killers while also helping out with some Survivor issues, so I don't really know personally.
I wouldn't say they're Survivor sided though, since a lot of people say they're Survivor sided and than shift that to Killer sided in a month so...
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They very specifically stated in the patch notes that the changes were 100% geared towards survivors. Ruin was nerfed because it was tough on new players and Doctor was changed (not buffed) because Survivors thought he was annoying (Nothing to do with his actual viability). Neither decision was about actual gameplay balance and was only about pleasing survivors.
Ruin was only used so much because of the terrible state of Gen Repairs, and not only was the issue not addressed but they've also not even talked about whether or not it will be. They just took away a necessary killer perk and didn't care.
Also, what did they do to benefit killers? There are no benefits to killers in these patch notes. Another also, who says they're killer sided? No actual killer mains I've met have ever said that, only survivor mains do.
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Plenty of people double back on saying BHVR is Survivor sided to Killer sided.
It usually happened around DS's nerf, MoMs nerf, etc. Recent posts will conflict with my statement of course because a crucial Killer perk was just nerfed... so, it's become a meme at this point tbh.
Anyways, I guess The Doctor is the only thing they did for Killers with some bug fixes and other such things as well, so that's my error on that part.
All in all, I disagree that BHVR is sided to one side, if they were than they would've nerfed Ruin years ago and done a lot more things to benefit Survivors, think about it...
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But they did.... It took the community how many years and months of arguing with them before they recovered the game from the mess it was in back in 2016? Back when survivors were bat ######### broken but both the survivor mains and BHVR were perfectly fine with that and considered it "balanced".
The shifting opinions you just explained yourself. Everyone is happy until something happens that affects them. The survivor mains are happy until they get 1 bad game and then suddenly they're calling for more legion nerfs. Balance out an extremely dumb perk? The devs are suddenly killer sympathizers. Which DS is actually still really stupid, but that's something for another thread.
And again, the doctor changes weren't a benefit to killers, it was made for the survivors. The bug fixes are NOT gifts that we should be appreciative of, they're something that's expected. If they weren't even willing to fix bugs that were affecting killers then that's when it's time to drop the game.
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I've stopped 1 week before they decided to ruin ruin.
Was allready annoyed by their reasonings and leaning towards survivors.
When i saw they were gonna destroy ruin i was happy i took a break just in time.
They didn't try to understand why 80% of the killers in red ranks were using it.
They just decided it because i apparently is to hard for new players.
Like for real?
I hust takes a little practice and they will boulder trough the skill checks.
I played both sides as rank 1 and never search for ruin and just hit about 98% of the hex skill checks.
I'd rather had it up cause otherwise the game would be over so fast and now it was just a challenge to hit as much as possible.
And they didn't change doc because the survivors didn't lime playing against him.
They literally said "who are we gonna change now?
Who do I hate to play against?"
So if they suck playing against certain killers then they also will change them?
In red ranks i would see doc about once ever 100 matches or something, maybe even less then that.
But I never hated to olay against him because I know how weak he was.
Gonna watch how everything plays out and maybe in a few months i will return.
But for now I will keep this break going.
Been playing since launch on ps4 and have around 3000hr on it so time for something else now
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The devs won't admit that optimal survivors are a problem. That's the real issue here.
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And when people play more and more survivors the more optimal survivors they get.
It's a problem they shut their eyes to unfortunately.
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I have no idea how you even arrived at that conclusion.
A large number of veteran players I know fully acknowledge that optimal survivors are a balance issue in DbD.
Ruin somewhat remedied the poor balance.
And by removing Ruin the devs have effectively said they don't think optimal survivors is a balance issue (despite players with thousands of hours saying otherwise).
So I don't understand how you can think the devs aren't biased?
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Yep, which is why I say the devs are biased.
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And it's something I won't argue about and can only agree with.
The last few patches started (might mistaken) from the nurse nerf were all towards survivors.
Sure some perks from survivors were nerfed (balanced) too.
But still they are very strong and can really change the outcome in their favour.
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And that's why opinions are opinions, everyone has one.
I'm not saying I disagree, but I personally don't think they're always sided with Survivors as everyone makes it out to be.
I never said they weren't biased, I just said that history proves that they're not always sided to one side for every patch and everything that gets changed.
I disagree with a lot of things they've done with perks, Killers, etc, but I honestly try to make the best with what I'm given and accept that the game has its flaws.
Yes an optimal Survivor group is still a balance issue, but most changes are focused on the majority rather than the minority of Killer mains and Survivor mains, so this was expected.
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I can't really say, since i haven't been around the forums that long (and I started the game as a survivor main), but i have to say that recent events seem to indicate that they ARE survivor biased. Their responses to killers complaints have been pretty one sided. The idea that killers need to "learn to play better" while simultaneously making the game easier for survivors clearly shows that bias. Not sure why they chose to alienate a large part of their player base like that doesn't make any sense to me. I can't help but wonder why survivors aren't expected to "play better". While i was not a fan of the previous Ruin, as a survivor, I could still complete gens with ruin on them despite not being able to hit great skill checks.
Keep in mind, most killers would not have minded a change to Ruin, it is this particular change that is bad. It does nothing to fix the underlying issues, and makes the perk nearly useless. For whatever reason, they were not open to even listening to suggestions that would have made it useful without the frustration to survivors. They could have gone for a win-win situation here, but they didn't. They took an already toxic situation and made it worse by taking sides.
People keep referring to survivor perk changes like DS and Balanced landing, but even after those changes, those are still some of the best and most used survivor perks in the game, so it is hardly the same. It's fine to modify perks while still maintaining their usefulness. The new Ruin just does not do enough, and keeping it hex based just kills any usefulness it might otherwise have. Plus, it prevents you from using any other regression perk. It was a poorly implemented change. That's why people are annoyed.
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@FireHazard That makes a little more sense. Thanks for clarifying.
I still think the devs are heavily survivor biased because if they weren't, they wouldn't have nerfed Ruin and instead do something about optimal survivors.
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And I understand that, but I personally don't think they're always biased to one side, but that's of course where opinions clash.
Have they done questionable things before? Who hasn't. Is anyone perfect? No. But I know this, eventually we should see something about this in the near future, since Ruin was a big thing for Killers... so I have a feeling this isn't the last we'll hear about it, but that's just me.
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This isn't really something the community can definitively answer, since all we can really do is speculate. Your guess is as good as any of ours. The only people who can really give a definitive answer here are the devs, and half of the community won't believe them even if they do.
Having said all that, I agree with you about the Ruin changes. I've talked to two "new players" (100-150 hours) about the changes, one of whom has never played killer in their life and the other is a 90/10 killer main. Neither of them had a problem with old Ruin from a survivor standpoint, and both of them agreed that the changes were flawed in their design for multiple reasons. The only thing they both have in common, aside from being quite new to the game, is that they're both game designers.
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The devs won't even acknowledge there's a problem. So I don't think we'll be seeing any meaningful changes in the near future.
They are utterly clueless when it comes to balance.
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I don't know personally what will happen, but I get a feeling that the Ruin change won't be forgotten for awhile.
Like I always say, we'll see what happens!
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