Tunneling and facecamping is WAY to common nowdays, both sides NEED to unite
Rank 1 killer and Rank 2 survivor, Xbox, Trapper and GF mains, Bill, Dwelf and Kate mains
The childish behaviour against each other is ruinning the game...
I played like 8 games as solo survivor last game, EVERY survivor with a toolbox including me, I take it off, I NEVER got tunneled and got post messages saying "thank you, you're a good person" in 4 out of the 8 games.
BOTH ROLES NEED TO HELP EACH OTHER, it's not the survivor's nor the killers fault, don't act as if it were:
- I politely ask you, survivors, not to bring in more than 2 toolboxes per lobby as a help for killers not to use childish behaviours like lobby dodging, tunneling or face camping as a complain against Ruin nerf.
- I politely ask you, killers, not to lobby dodge, tunnel or face camp cause and using the argument of Ruin nerf (this doesn't apply for toxic players who teabag) if you don't see more than 2 toolboxes in lobby.
We NEED the attention in the actual problems:
- Matchmaking
- Pipping sistem
- Maps
- Emblems sistem
- Clown, Legion and Bubba need a buff
Fighting each other doesn't fix anything, it just drives the gamers off the game... If you actually enjoy this game, we need to join forces, I'm rooting for both sides, where are you?
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This is one if the games, I took my toolbox off in a lobby where there were three more apart from me, the killer brought in a mori, tunneled and face camped, at the end, he slugged me, took me to hatch and this happened:
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Again "camping" and "tunneling" is just a strategy in the game. You won't politely ask survivors not to tbag and clicking? Strange.
Lobby dodging and toolboxes would not be such a problem if they got Ruin back, the real Ruin. That is a devs problem not a killer vs survivor problem.
I play mostly survivor but rooting for killers. There is no problem playing survivor it's not stressful and still I see "teammates" tbagging/clicking..well I let them hang on the hook. If a killer is camping or tunneling me, no problem I play next game and hope I do better not to get the hook. Others might say bad things in chat or send a message to killers..well you are just a bad loser!
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"Lobby dodging and toolboxes would not be such a problem if they got Ruin back, the real Ruin. That is a devs problem not a killer vs survivor problem."
That's the exact point of this thread, it's not OUR problem, so, why make it ours? There's a movement against survivors right now in case you didn't know, killers are exorting each other to face camp, tunnel, insta mori and bring NOED, not as a strategy, but as a toxic complain against Ruin nerf, as a strategy that's on you, but as a childish way of complaining, that's another story.
About this: "You won't politely ask survivors not to tbag and clicking? Strange." Would you PLEASE read the post again and go to this part: "I politely ask you, killers, not to lobby dodge, tunnel or face camp (this doesn't apply for toxic players who teabag)".
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And here we go again... WE didn't nerf Ruin, saying WE as a gamer WHO PLAYS BOTH SIDES EQUALLY, I never used Ruin, and as a RANK 1 KILLER I'm not falling for this childish behaviour that promotes more toxic gameplay for both sides, I can still 3k+ without ruin or using this conducts I mentioned...
I'm not asking for this as a survivor, I'm asking for it from both sides as a RED RANK
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Tunneling and camping is an effective strategy. Toolboxes are there to be used as well. It is the devs fault for these issues. It is not childish behavior to play the game with the tools and strategies that are given.
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It's childish behaviour to decide to tunnel or facecamp or instant Ebony Mori the whole team just cause they brought in 3+ toolboxes as part of the "Ruin nerfed" movement, it's not childish behaviour if it's just a strategy, a D one, but a strategy.
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Ok did not see teabag in you post perhaps you edit after or I was half asleep 🤔 Well there is always a movement against killers also were survivors constantly says killers must play in this way or that way, even if it means killers lose big time. Well guess what? Killers are not here to make sure survivors have as much fun as possible.
I play both survivor and killer and I don't mind being camped or anything, I just play next game and understand why killers use that strategy. I give a GG even if being facecamped which happens very rarely. As killer well I play more "dirty" nowdays after the Ruin nerf, because I need to it's just how the game is now.
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Toxic behaviour is any action that involves trying to mess with the other PERSON enjoyment as a way of "bullying", we both agree there are needed changes in this game, but the right way of asking for them is not by changing the "I don't enjoy the game, Devs please fix" to "I don't enjoy the game, now nobody will".
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It’s not the players job to make sure that their opponents have fun, the responsibility falls upon the developers. Killers find going against multiple toolboxes unfun, yet most survivors that bring them in don’t consider how the killer feels, so why should the killer consider their feelings?
Seems to me that the ones you should be pleading with are the Developers since they are the ones who failed to make it fun for both sides.
No one asked them to remove Ruin without fixing their broken Rankings and Matchmaking.
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Yes to everything, that's my point, the game needs fixes, it's not the players fault, and if we continue to act as if it is, this game is gonna loose more and more players every day...
"most survivors that bring them in don’t consider how the killer feels, so why should the killer consider their feelings?" As I said: "I politely ask you, survivors, not to bring in more than 2 toolboxes per lobby as a help for killers not to use childish behaviours like lobby dodging, tunneling or face camping as a complain against Ruin nerf." I'm asking conduct changes for both roles.
I'm in for both sides man, and please don't generalize, there obviously are a few players who care about each other, but I'm one of them, just look at the first comment vid on this thread.
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YES! Promote unfun gameplay for survivors too! Let's see how killers handle a slow queue time as survivors have to when gamers go away even more!
It's amazing how I made a post about both sides doing dumb conducts against each other and that BOTH ROLES need to help each other and yet people comment things against the other role...
People...
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Just let them use their moris. Lol. If a killer HAS to use a mori to get a 4k they're not a good killer and once they run out they'll be out of red ranks where they belong.
I have zero issues with the new ruin when I play killer. In fact, as a Tru3ta1ent build GF/Wraith main I love it. Its even better than old ruin as the point of the build is to keep survivors off of gens and healing.
But I think threads like these prove my point that killers are indeed the biggest babies. Lol. Survivors have taken their nerfs in stride but killers get a ruin nerf and literally can't handle the game anymore. The days of down survivor, hook survivor, bbq, wash/rinse/repeat are over, killers. Adapt or find a new game.
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Well, feel free to give them an alternative to the play style that you don’t like them using. With how fast gens are going, and how large maps are, most killers really do not have an option.
It makes strategic sense to bring in a red mori in order to kill the item carrier as fast as possible.
Tunneling a survivor to get them out of the match faster reduces the stress on the killer since generators get done so fast.
Camping a survivor that took them for a joy ride is also better than letting them get unhooked, where they’d take the killer on another long run.
The only slowdown perk that works is Corrupt Intervention. I tried using it, but Survivors just hide.
Anyone bringing in a flashlight recently deserves to get tunneled, camped and moried since they’re bugged and instantly blind the killer.
Don’t ask them to not play optimally without giving them an alternative. If the game dies, then so be it, it’s the Devs fault for not making it fun enough to keep it alive.
So again, instead of making threads like this, your thread should be addressed to the Developers, not the players.
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Yes, killers are babies, but so are survivors in due time, remember BL and Insta Heals complains? I remember the "Let's 4 men toolbox Gen Rush to complain" threads don't you?
The problem here is that we see each other as the ones who "need a punishment" and that's dumb AH. We need the attention on actual problems and bugs, not on each other...
BTW, they're not using the moris to 4k as a NEED, they're using them to send a message, and that's the problem, most red rank killers can 3k+ without Ruin or mori, but the tunneling, camping and insta moris along with lobby dodging in an already long A$$ queue times is increasing due to this "Ruin Nerfed" issue.
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Here is the thing. I dont camp and the amount of times i tunnel are very often, those moments that aren't really tunneling but since i found the one just getting unhooked and not the one who unhooked the survivor. But to some people this is a "survivor problem" because the reason why ruin was nerfed. It was for survivors, so in some twisted logic its smart to "make them pay" which is stupid. I wanna have fun while killing not set there brain dead
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Tunneling and camping arent toxic. They're effective. Best strategy? No, of course not. But if you need someone out of the game (which quickly snowballs in survivors favor if your not fully paying attention and playing well), it is very effective.
That would be like asking survivors to only work on one gen at a time because "gen rushing" is toxic.
If it's the most efficient way to do your objective at that moment, it's fair. Besides the fact killers lose points for camping.
What you should be calling on, is a look into WHY these tactics are used, and changes to remedy that. Fixing symptoms will not cure whatever causes them.
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One thread doesn't make the difference, a hundred do... One thread for the players to focus on the real issues and not on dumb things is a + to the changes we need.
I'm actually giving an alternative:
Right now: 3+ toolboxes = mori, facecamp, tunneling, lobby dodging = loosing players
What I'm proposing: 2 toolboxes max = no tunneling, no face camping, no lobby dodging and a somehow "balanced" outcome in the game
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So the game itself is over?
Killers whole objective is to down, hook, repeat.
If BBQ is your biggest concern there, you've got a lot to learn, because THAT ######### is easily avoidable.
What do you want killers to do, hook someone then ######### off to the other side of the map? Or just follow one survivor around?
Survivors dont take nerfs in stride. People still cry about MoM, Balanced Landing, multiple heal nerfs. And threads are made all the time.
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Lobby times are increasing? They've decreased in my experience. I wait just under 5 mins for a game now. Its most likely due to the battlepass, but that just shows killers don't plan to go anywhere.
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That's exactly what I'm trying to do, if we make the game more playable for each other and focus threads on actual REAL problem in game we'd be having another conversation wouldn't we?
Tunneling and Camping ain't toxic if it's a strategy, doing it to prove a point or as a complain against Ruin nerf is
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I'm talking about the mindless way killers have been playing for a long time. I don't care about BBQ, Ill loop you into submission if you dare bug me while popping a gen.
Killers need to find a new way to play. Killers are still getting their 4ks. If you cant because of one perk that was only clutch in like 1% of games then you need to find a new one to play.
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The first day of the new BP I waited less than 30 secs per game, but yesterday and the day before I waited an average of 10 mins per game as survivor, less than 30 secs as killer, I don't want the killer's queue time to increase too cause toxic behaviour discourages survs from playing
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People have long been tunneling and camping. To think this is because of the ruin nerf is absurd. Yeah, there may be a few people that claim that's why they do it, but especially on here, they're a small portion of the forums, which is a small portion of ALL players.
It may seem like its increased, but it's the same.
But asking people to not camp, tunnel, gen rush, etc won't work, because most people wont hear it, and it only stirs the pot of both sides blaming the other.
As a lot of people have said, maps need to be fixed to not require longer gen times, or band aid fixes to match speed. However if they aim for 5 min matches, players cant help what the dev team has in mind.
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The problem here is that this isn't a "one perk" problem, killers are starting this kind of conducts cause they perceive the Devs are survivor sided and they do this as a way to complain, it has nothing to do with them not being able to 3k+ without Ruin, it's about the meaning of the nerf, not the nerf itself
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8/12 games yesterday:
Me: "Why did you tunnel everyone?"
Killer: "Ruin Nerfed"
Maybe it was just bad luck.
Just look at the 1st comment vid I posted, that was one of the 8 killers I just mentioned, the guy thanked me for taking off my toolbox post game.
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They play "mindlessly" because they're not allowed to waste time or try things out with how the game is atm. They HAVE to go go go all the time. No breaks.
And this thread is about tunneling and camping, not ruin, so saying the 1% clutch games ######### is so irrelevant to this discussion it hurts.
What new way would you have killers play that is effective and not "toxic" to you? Because downing and hooking someone asap is effective. Running in circles looking for gens and following one survivor for eternity while the others work is not.
Ruin has no effect on raw gameplay. Especially at high ranks when people can hit great skill checks.
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"What new way would you have killers play that is effective and not "toxic" to you?"
Wait, I think you missunderstood, I had a good experience, I didn't bring in a toolbox and cause of that I didn't get tunneled nor face camped nor moried in any game. But I'm a bit concerned that the killers actually said post game they're doing this cause of Ruin nerf, and those were red ranks! It's not cause ruinr itself but cause a way of complaining on Devs not focusing on maps, matchmaking and pipping sistem.
For me there is no such thing as toxic behaviour from killers, there is only toxic behaviour from survivors cause of the game characteristics. But the action of not playing as you normally do and intending to give the survivors a hard experience cause "they brought in a toolbox" is gonna break this community more than it already is.
EDIT: LOL, your comment wasn't for me was it? hahahaha. My bad
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The first response I had, you quoted, was to you, and I agree, some people are going to use it as an excuse. They may be sincere and they just started doing g it, but a lot of people arent just suddenly doing it, they do it and blame whatever they dont like, as if they just started.
The second was a response to someone else, saying that killers cant just hit, down, hook, bbq, and repeat mindlessly anymore.
Sorry if you thought that was to you as well. But I'd even say nothing is toxic, short of teabagging a hooked survivor then refusing to save them. But flashlights, teabags at the killer, rushing, camping, etc are just mechanics. Some people use then to tilt others, and it works.
I see where you're coming from about "tunneling bc of toolboxes" but again, people will always look for an excuse or reason to play how they want. Hell, I'm guilty of it. If I see a Steve in game, as killer they get tunnel camped out of game, regardless where that puts me, and as survivor they get left to die. It originally started because I dont agree with ST in the game, but was reinforced by 8/10 Steve's being absolute douchebags in game.
It doesnt make it right, but it is what it is.
A lot of people have said if they fix maps, and adjust toolboxes, it will be a good start to actially seeing what's wrong with the game. Instead of blaming toopboxes/ruin/camping/lack of time, etc.
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The most effective way to apply pressure to a game as a killer is to remove 1 survivor from the game as quick as you can.
Survivors need to power the gens, toolboxes help with this objective.
None of these things are toxic as they are part of gameplay.
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It is not a balanced outcome to the game. Not camping, tunneling or using a mori when there are two or less items in a match still gives the advantage to the Survivors, while providing nothing to the killer.
If Survivors are noticing that a Killer is using these strategies more often when they bring in items, than the solution would be to not bring in any item.
One tool box is a disadvantage for a killer because that toolbox will shorten the objective for the Survivor. The only choice you’re giving the killer is to not shorten their objective by getting rid of the item user.
What advantage do Survivors give killers?
Will they stop running to broken loops that make it difficult for the killer to catch them?
Will they pretend to not see a lit Hex Totem?
Will they not throw down pallets to make it easier for the killer?
Will they not look for the hatch if they’re the last one alive?
Will they take a break from repairing gens in order to help the Killer apply pressure during the match?
The answer is a big fat No. Survivors do not care to make things easier for their opponents, neither should killers.
If the game dies, so be it, that would be the Developers fault. They should have worked harder to make sure their veteran players are having fun. Plenty of other games to play.
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ATTENTION ALL PIG MAINS
Knock Out + Face Mask
Pig's slug game shall rise
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Do what must be done. Do not hesitate. Show no mercy.
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I pretty much agree with you here. The toolbox thing is a bit more dicey as there is a sabotage challenge in the Tome. But it would be nice if everyone could repair there is a person on the other end.
Brilliant argument. Except survivors didn't nerf Ruin. Virtually nobody wanted it nerfed. Furthermore it is not needed in order to not play like a dick. That's your choice.
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That's the problem right there, I do give survs a chance by not tunneling nor camping nor moriing on 2nd hook, and as Survivor if I see 2+ toolboxes I take my item off... Do as you please man...
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This is pretty much is the mindset of both sides right now. Its a game some people play to win, some to have fun. Alot of killers are upset about the Ruin nerf. Give it another week and they'll get over it. Right now they are taking they're anger out on any survivor whether toxic or not. Then you have you seal team 6 team who are happy that they can just gen rush and do the annual tbag at the gates. In the end you can only play how you want.
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And i personally only use items i find in a chest. The only time i bring items are if its an archive challenge or a daily.
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Would all you Piggy mains please let me boop the snoot before you abuse my face and leave me to bleed out? I just want to touch that glorious, plush snoot of yours <3
Also, make sure to let me know my booping pleases you by purring at me.
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What does rank have to do with it. Rank doesnt mean anything in this game with enough time anyone can make it to red ranks.
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Not for survivors, I agree, but for killers, right now? Sure... Pipping ain't a problem when getting gens not to pop in early game is a must and if they do (and yes they do) you need a 3k+ without camping nor tunneling on maps like new Yamaoka, Rottenfields, etc. as a Trapper and GF main.
Ranks for killers do mean something, I have to disagree
And what I meant by that is that I'm a constant red rank killer, experience beats anything as killer man, as survivor you can just get carried.
I'm not bragging, my point is that as an experienced killer who has never used ruin I do not have to act out any anger issues in order to 3k+ as a lot of killers nowdays do.
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Pig is my second most used killer. This is a good idea actually thanks! Pig is also a very good tunneling killer since she knows were the unhooked survivors are going. Hrm..Pig might be one of the best killers for dealing with these toxic players called survivors in a way they deserve.
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"ThAtS WhaT yOu GeT" lmao yea cuz any of us had anything to do with ruin being nerfed, use your tiny brain just a little bit please, it really comes in handy. If you needed ruin to win you were just not good at the game from the start, sorry to break it to you. I play both killer an survivor also so don't hit me with that "____ main!"
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You pretty much hit it spot on there it's not about the ruin nerf it's how worded it in the designer notes and then how they responded to things in the QnA and when a killer ask them a question they just look the other way and not give a answer to it, They have pretty much come out and said they want to cater to survivors.
Good post i think some people missed the bigger picture of what you were trying to say i.e if you don't want the killer to bring a mori then there is no need for all 4 survivors to bring a toolbox now that ruin has been nerfed.
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I like the idea, good topic. We can make the game better for everybody, and we can help doing that looking at commum issues from both roles, indeed.
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What perks are needed for a slugger build?
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Sadly that’s how most killers play nowadays. They know they’re op and exploit it. I’m sorry you had to deal with this, but there’s new nerfs coming soon, so that will teach them to cut this toxic behavior. Good post.
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The only reason I would camp is:
a) I hook one person in the endgame, knowing everyone is bull rushing the hook
b) any point in the trial as I hook a survivor, knowing by player behaviors, that someone is just hiding behind an object near the hook the whole time. This is usually correct on my behalf lol.
The only reason I would tunnel at all:
a) a dumb survivor farms the hooked survivor, and they don't have BT.
Aside from this, I play regularly as anyone should be.
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I just find it odd how you did not include anything that causes killers to perform most of these actions such as t-bagging and clicky clicky with their flashlight, you made it seem like a one sided post even though you wanted it to be directed at both sides
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There's a bunch of you saying facecamping and tunneling are a strategy but none of you really say how it's a strategy? It's not a strategy. But I'm still curious as to how you guys think it is?
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Ive never seen the knockout perk. Is it available to the hag?
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Damn, it’s locked behind a paywall just like BBQ. I guess I’m not going to be able to use them.
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