Why do you think the devs don't want to add secondary objectives
Also do you want secondary objectives.
I know totems are a thing but I mean something more substantial
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They probably dont want to spare the resources. They only want to add stuff they can sell. Not to mention it would shake up the game big time and they can barely balance anything.
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Well doing totems and searching chests, or even removing traps and such are not objectives for those who are unaware. The objective is to do gens and escape. Another objective would be adding another component required to do so, like gathering gas to do the gens, or finding the switch to open the exit gate. The more time you give a killer, the less likely they are to play "dirty" for lack of a better word. Unfortunately, survivors ignore everything in favor of slamming gens, so the killer is always under so much pressure that, well, they play dirty.
It would have to be something that simply cannot be ignored and part of the main objective, and I think they have enough trouble balancing their game now to add something like that.
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Too much hard work for them.
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If we're talking about a second objective - that is, one which is compulsory, like generators, to escape - I expect it's because it would be a huge undertaking from a balance perspective. I think most of us can agree that they have enough on their plate, balance-wise, without introducing a new game-changing mechanic and shaking things up completely.
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Funny enough tydetyme has a series that shows what other people do when not being chased by the killer. Like him or not it shows most people struggle with doing gens and a 2nd objective would probably be too much for noobs https://youtu.be/Gj7VNchEOyc
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All changes they made in game are in favor of average low skilled beer gaming survivor who want win and bully killers by repairing gens as fast as possible,that is horror survival game btw.
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Hoping its cause they want to look into gens before they do so, if they do so.
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What about something like the hallowed blight event but filling the syringe icon it’s bonus blood points that are awarded post trial. Not sure how much extra, but I’d definitely enjoy that as an additional optional objective.
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I had a suggestion before that wouldn't require extensive resources or balance changes.
Let the gate switches appear randomly on the map the same way the hatch does.
Let them appear when the last gen is powered and don't let players know which switch opens which gate.
This creates an exciting endgame scenario for all players, prevents 99% switches, and allows the final gen being finished to be more of a Sudden Death situation instead of a signal that the killer has lost in most cases.
This essentially creates a new objective "Find the gate switch" which already exists, but extends it to a frantic search throughout the map.
It also removes the safety of the gate and forces survivors to run for their lives once the gates are opened instead of just walking out after opening the gate right next to them.
Balancing would still be required, but not nearly as much as creating an entirely new objective.
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Too hard to balance prolly
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Yea let's add a whole other layer survivors have to go through before finally getting out. At that point you might as well have keys spawn randomly around the map as well, let's get F13 with it!
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Adding a second objective will introduce more bugs and they have enough bugs to worry about as is.
Part of the beauty of survivors is how simple they are. Do gens, loop killer, heal team, escape. When you add more stuff you make things more complicated.
There is a chance if they add in a second objective poorly they will completly screw over the entire meta and ruin the game. If you have faith they can do it well then you have more faith than me.
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It’s simple, because it would be very complicated to balance. For example, survivors need to get gas, which is the popular idea. Ok, what about the top tier killers who really don’t need this additional time? Are their kill rates not going to get completely out of hand? Sorry, but you can’t have killers with 80-90% kills, to where actual good killer players never lose with them. That’s not balance. What if killers just continue camping/slugging/tunneling? (which many would) Is it fair for this strategy to be significantly buffed due to the added time, to the point the killer could constantly win by doing this? How do we stop it from happening?
As you can see, in no way it is as simple as just adding an objective. It would be an overhaul to the game and require many changes. A lot of this comes back to the variance is killer strength. You can’t balance the survivor objective speed to Clown while much stronger killers exist.
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Imagine;
If survivors had to search for gas cans to fuel the generators. Then in order to carry the gas can to the gen they had to drop their currently equipped item. This would help with "op" items as well
They take 4 seconds to fill the gen and proceed to repair said generator.
No need to adjust gen repair times. No nees to adjust toolboxes.
THEN imagine the new flood of perks they could make relating to the additional objective of finding fuel.
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A second objective is too much. An alternative objective would be great
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But its also true that adressing gen speeds without making survivior gameplay even more boring is impossible.
They either have to slap band aids on everything while they balance the game, or add new objectives and focus on balancing them.
Buy I dont think its possible to fix the game with just bandaids
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That's true, but I don't think that introducing a second objective is necessarily the only alternative to increasing repair times. Some of the other things they're already thinking about doing will, I think, be helpful, such as nerfing toolboxes, shrinking maps and expanding on existing side objectives, like totems. They just need to come up with ways to encourage survivors off generators, and/or help the killer to apply more pressure. A second objective is only one way of doing that.
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The thing is that none of these things make survivior more interensting.
- Toolbox nerf = makes gen times longer
- Shrinking maps = impossible with current map rework speed (we dont have 5 years)
- Increasing totem importance = people alredy dont like totems, just look at all NOED threads (NOED is ######### and unfair, doing totems counters it, but still, no one bothers to cleanse it)
So it basically has to be either some low effort idea like the Scott's, (it makes gen times slower, but 1 survivior rushing into a killer ends the bonus) or a whole new thing that for obvious reasons wont happen.
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I don't know, there are few things less interesting than repairing generators. I find searching for and cleansing totems more interesting than doing gens, and anyone who refuses to cleanse them and then complains about NOED needs to get a grip. Also, the toolbox nerf isn't really about solving the issue so much as preventing it from getting worse. I agree they're not perfect solutions, I was just using them as examples of other things that could be done to increase game lengths aside from increasing repair time or adding new objectives.
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Thats why I kinda like the Scotts idea, it looks like a perfect bandaid if some things are tweaked. Surviviors can choose how long will it go on, in a way its more iteractive than Corrupt Intervention. And yes, Stealth will get soft nerfed yet again. But there is just no better idea. If we could add more objectives, I would let Stealth players go look for some golden wrentch or whatever that will shorten the Warmup without them being revealed to the killer.
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Solo survivor game is pain, adding a secondary objective won’t make it any better
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Because regardless of whether you want to believe the stats the developers drop, all killers are above 60% killer rate, and taking into account "all the variables" it's incredibly unlikely that these variables would suddenly make the percentage drop below 50%
When the devs first released stats for kill rates (Labelled Escape Rate, so it was counting who left the game, not who was killer) it showed it at around 45% chance of escape, so 55% kill rate.
They then released another graph showing escape rates, and at rank one there was a huge spike in at rank 1, this was explained in summary under the post, which Peanits clarified, the survival rate is below 50% (43% To Be Exact) at rank 1.
And once again, with the THIRD installment of stats, which exclude DCs their kill rate is WAY above 50%
So, in all THREE stat drops the kill rate has been above 50%, always. Regardless of any "variables" you guys may want to conjure up they aren't likely to be even close enough to fudge the results by 15/20%
So bearing all this in mind, if you add a MANDATORY second objective you only look at boosting kill rate significantly, especially for the strong killers.
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No competent developer balances around the noobs, people seem to forget that. Good developers, such as Valve, balance things around the HIGHEST level of play instead of the LOWEST
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Because Insidious Bubba exists.
Obviously it's not Bubba the problem, but camping, whose counter is to rush gens as fast as possible. Usually if a killers facecamps since the beginning on average they get 2 kills, sometimes 3 with NOED (in my experience). Imagine if survivors have another objective... camping would become meta in no time.
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A second objective would be to difficult for new survivors and thats where they are balancing the game towards it makes sense why they wouldn't. I think a second objective would be great to break up the monotony of the match.
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The devs don't believe there is anything wrong with the game.. it's pretty easy.
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Imagine trying to search for gen parts or fuel with Oni running the map downing your team. Then once you got the gen cranking he would come along with pop and regress it. Very few people would ever make it out.
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I won't engage in too deep a discussion about Scott's ideas, at risk of derailing this thread, but basically I agree that his idea has merit, I just don't necessarily agree that it's the only solution. Heaps of people thought secondary objectives were the only solution before he came up with his proposal. I just think that there is still space for people to come up with new ideas that might also work if they put a bit more thought into it the way Scott did. Maybe it's just my designer brain, but I think there are always new solutions and ideas to be found if we just scratch the surface a bit and open our minds to other possibilities.
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Money.
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because they are lazy and only follow low effort/much income
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Requires actual thought and development, that's why.
The focus is on rank 20 and the cash shop atm.
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Because a 2nd objective would make the game harder for new survivor players, and that's exactly the group they are focussing on.
I don't expect a 2nd objective (or increased gen time which almost nobody wants). The only thing that might happen is a toolbox nerf, but that would be a mere drop in the ocean.
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All of those actions take about 10-15 seconds tops, and outside of Freddy and Doc, can be entirely ignored. Even Mending is a non-issue because its been nerfed into the ground
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The game is already confusing for new players and it is difficult to balance things for a game like dead by daylight, especially with the amount of different perks that people can choose.
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Still, an alternative objective would be great to mix it up. Also it would stop gen time complaints
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