Survivor Perk Idea - What doesn't Kill you
What Doesn't Kill you
Only Makes you stronger
For each health state you are healed gain a token. Every time you are unhooked gain 1/2/3 token(s). For each token increase the speed at which you are healed by 6% and your vault speed by 3%.
This bonus can stack indefinitely.
Comments
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Umm.... no? Let's not give a buff to Self-Care users.
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Or, make it stack to 3 tokens; lose all tokens when you are hooked (to force hook); and make it either only apply to other survivors healing you, or make it count all heals - but limit the use of Self-Care to X amount of health states per match.
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Stack indefinitely? What kind of broken ass idea is that?
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Count how many times you are healed per game.
Potentially infinite is not infinite in practice.
Under normal circumstances I'd expect someone to get 10 tokens by the end of the game tops.
8 tokens are gained from being unhooked and healed under hook. And you get 1 extra each time you manage to escape a chase and heal up after being injured.
The reward for each individual token is small enough that I wouldn't expect Killers to tunnel specifically to counter this perk in particular, and since it's fairly selfish it wouldn't particularly boost SWF that much.
Also note that Botany is better for Self Care until you get 5 tokens, or in other words likely only after you're on death hook.
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What makes it particularly broken is the vault speed part that has literally nothing to do with the rest of the perk.
If it were just being healed, sure. But faster vaulting, too?
And there are plenty of survivors who are good at chases who can just go hide and heal between chases who'd go get whacked by the killer on purpose just to see how many stacks they can get.
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actually the vault speed part was the initial premise behind the perk. But I quickly realized that just vault speed on it's own wouldn't be enough unless I gave it insane values, so instead I made it so stacking it made it easier to get more stacks via increased healing speed on self.
Basically, look at all the perks that directly assist in a chase. Pretty much all of them are second chance perks. DH, BT, DS ect.
I wanted a non-exhaustion chase helper perk that wasn't a second chance perk. Movement speed would be busted for obvious reasons, Any Means Necessary already covers pallet reuse, and any kind of tank method would be another MoM situation. Hence a Vault speed perk.
Having amazing vaults right off the bat would be problematic due to how important the early game is for the Killer. Hence making it a stacking perk. Since it's designed for people who are planning on being chased a lot it makes sense to use something that would proc a lot if you are being chased as a stacking requirement.
I didn't want to use the actual chase mechanic because that's too abusable for a perk who's stacks are designed to stick, and being hit is a reward for failure. Thus being healed or unhooked.
While it is supposed to be a big boost to late game vaulting, it would need to be an utterly massive boost in order for that effect alone to be good. However it would be problematic if it got too high too fast. So I instead gave it a complementary second effect.
Then I used unhooks scaling faster to smooth out the expected payouts for the perk so the end result would be that it's still fairly useful in a normal game and having extreme results in a drawn out game. But in a drawn out game the Killer by definition isn't being gen rushed and thus the Killer has had plenty of time to build up momentum. So having the Survivor get really good perk benefits in this situation is perfectly fine.
Or in other words:
"And there are plenty of survivors who are good at chases who can just go hide and heal between chases who'd go get whacked by the killer on purpose just to see how many stacks they can get."
This is literally the type of person the perk is designed for so that they'd be running this instead of Dead Hard or something.
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Aaah I see.
Well I have an idea then.. everytime you heal up or get unhooked, you gain X stacks, up to 3/4/5 stacks. (so as you said maybe 1 for a heal and 3 for an unhook?)
Every quick vault uses a stack and makes you vault x% faster, or something.(not sure what percentage would be good enough to be worth it, but not too good to be broken)
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The main issue with having infinitely stacking vaulting speed is it can cause infinites at god windows.
This would make the game unwinnable on maps where a god window can spawn in the center of the map(yes that can happen)for killers.
This is along with letting yourself get hit to make it to the window with the hit speed boost and keep on running + vaulting until the killer gives up(Sense they can't get you anymore due to the vault speed) self-care back to healthy rinse and repeat getting better and faster each time at doing it.
TLDR: This can cause infinites due to infinite vault speed increases so this can't be allowed into the game.
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If it takes 0.5 seconds for a survivor to fast vault a window with 0 tokens (default speed), and if the survivor has the expected potential of 10 tokens by the end of the match, and if each token grants a 3% speed boost to vaulting for a total of 30% with 10 tokens, then they could fast vault the window in 0.35 seconds.
If the game is being played at 60fps then it would reduce the fast vault animation from 30 frames to 21.
I wouldn't sweat over 9 frames. Survivors can easily lose 9 frames running from one obstacle to the next at the wrong angle of attack. If two robots with perfect capability were playing Dead by Daylight against eachother, however...
Post edited by Nos37 on1 -
Not infinites. Entity blockers would stop you sooner than vault speed limitations do at God loops.
Vault speed boosts have the biggest impact when looping from angles that can't be fast vaulted, since a medium vault is 1 second making an increase in speed more noticeable.
So the extreme scenario where you get a crap ton of tokens is one where your Medium vaults are extremely hard to punish, rather than one where your fast vaults lead to infinites.
Even a 0 second vault likely wouldn't lead to infinites. It'd be useful sure, but not infinitely.
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Here's one thing though: Once vaults reach a certain speed they will begin to break chase which will prevent the entity from blocking off the window.
Mind you this isn't a problem on normal windows/vaults however its a problem on god windows/vaults due to any speed increase above 15%.
Mind you even at 15%(Spine chill + resistance) if the survivor plays perfectly and the killer makes even the slightest mistake already breaks chases) will cause normal speed killers to lose chases against the survivor's there theoretically at 25%+ which after 2 unhooks and 2 heals this perk puts them at 24%.
TLDR:Due to how powerful god windows are and how vault speed isn't allowed to be too high or else chases break and thus entity blockers don't spawn which is already an issue with the "house of pain" infinite against huntress.
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At that point I kinda just have to say that the map would need to be addressed as the solution. Those God loops already need nerfing with or without this perk so it's not too crazy to just say to fix the relevant maps.
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Or not add even more broken perks to the already broken game.
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You haven't actually said anything about why it's broken. You've just asserted that it is without proper justification.
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I know but I am more or less bringing up the potential danger design wise of having a perk like this in the game.
As this perk would have developers design all vault spots around potentially 30%+ vault speed(This perk 2 unhooks and unhook heals + spine chill =30% at a min) for as long as the perk exists.
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To be fair that would also mean you are on death hook and are stacking 2 perks for the boost.
Plus when several perks are being used to their full potential towards a single function, it's ok for the end result to be extreme.
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Why would I need to add more than what has already been pointed out by others? It would make infinite loops even easier to achieve than they already are.
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