STOP with the Gen Speeds are the fault ... From a NO Ruin Killer Main's perspective
Let me say this: I was a no Ruin Killer before the change. The perk was great, no doubt about it. But 9 out of 10 games it didn't last beyond 2 minutes. Mostly it was gone in the first minute. So I stopped using it and found different perks that can help me in the match. This means the impact of the Ruin change was ZERO for me. Games don't go faster, nor slower than they did before the change.
It doesn't mean I don't get why people are upset about the change, but FFS adept. There are really good alternatives: Corrupt Intervention, PGTW, Sloppy Buggers, Thrilling Tremors and others. Sure the early game can be rough sometimes and other times the SV don't manage to get even one gen done.
Here are two examples where Ruin wasn't used and yet the Survivors struggled hard (Purple and Red Rank)
The problem are elsewhere: Map design: God loops, Map size, visibility *cough Farm Maps cough* and tiles placement.
This is where the devs need to work on these aspects. Changing the gen time wont change anything. So stop requesting this change.
Comments
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AMEN. The killers who have adapted are the ones I fear the most. Very good at map pressure and planning for late game.
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I agree, it's not the gen speed that is the issue, though Toolboxes don't help but since they're being reworked, then that's all good. But, yes, it's the maps that are the issue (Looking at you Coldwind!). Indoor maps, like Hawkins or Lery's are farily easy to catch survivors, but the wide open maps where Gens are two countries away from you are the issue. By the time you even manage to hike across, unless you have Oni or Billy for sprint, the survivors are long gone and leaves you wasting more time trying to figure out where they went. Hopefully future map reworks will lower their sizes and reduce the gen spread.
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Usually I value other people opinions, but dude you are beating survivors with Spirit Fury Freddy without Enduring. You could have probably beaten these survivors with your eyes closed so I quess its kinda obvious this proves nothing about current state of the game.
And this comes from survivor main that is bored of 5 min games while waiting 10 minutes in que.
Also some survivor main that has 7k hours and has played in tournaments made exact opposite thread about the whole Ruin / gen speed situation.
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Yeah gen speeds with things like Toolboxes, and some of the problems that existed before the ruin nerf are all still valid problems regardless.
Then you have this god awful broken matchmaker/ranking making it hard for people to even gauge if their losses are deserved or not anymore.
In terms of just using a gameplay example, that reason, and many many others kinda makes that a moot argument. I can post videos of me 4King too, just because I can get a 4k and just because all survivors can escape does not indicate a problem. When everyone is getting frustrated, statistically overall there are issues, when a bunch of people are not having fun....THOSE indicate an issue.
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Wow, talk about cherry picking games. You went all the way back to pre-rework Freddy to get one that proved your point. And even in that one, you managed to actually gen grab somebody as pre-rework Freddy who you had to start the dream transition with first. If that doesn't scream not a good survivor, nothing does.
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I'm a mediocre killer who is colorblind to the point I can't see most survivors if they don't move because colors blend for me. That said, I get red ranks easily without ruin and I run Trapper. I'm nowhere near as good as many of these streamer killers, but even I know the ruin changes are not crippling. They are crippling to many killers who relied too much on a perk that was ok at best. The perk often got eliminated early and only crippled mid to low rank survivors. Killers love to talk about survivors needing to adapt to changes, but they don't like to take their own advice.
When I play survivor, I see around 70% of the killers rely heavily on survivor mistakes and stupidity to succeed. They tunnel way too hard at times and bank on survivors not countering their tunnel, or complain about gen rush when they do.
The OP is absolutely correct. This coming from a severely colorblind Trapper - by no means a power killer.
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I mean i get survivor teams that do f all, if i had a full team that could play my skill youre pretty much lost and thats just the way it is. i dont expect people escaping with 8-10k points while im sitting at 30k. if they ever sort out ranks so red ranks are actually filled with the actual red ranks who can play then you will understand
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When they start out that they are a killer main that never used ruin 😂
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IDK all the killer games I've played, I kill them all or the survs are on the ropes around the 1-3 gen left mark. Some survs go out if their way to be chased to get their pips so it is all good.
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What's so funny about that? I just hated wasting a perk slot, that's all.
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OP is spot on. The whining killers just want to complain when they actually got outplayed for once. They had it so easy for so long that they are crushed by the weight of their own inadequacy and don't want to take the time to learn how to deal with it.
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I sure feel outplayed when a gen is donw before I can get to it
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Scott... I've seen enough of your videos to know that 99 times out of 100, you're going to 4k and 4k with ease. You screw around with 360 hatchet tosses because the game is such a joke for you.
You know you can run CI and still 4k without any gens done. The devs themselves said to expect to lose two gens in the first 4 minutes.
Losing one gen is not the end of the game. Sure it doesn't look as good on YouTube as the 5-gen/4k does, but it's far from game over. I'd be shocked to see you upload a video where all four escape against you where you actually tried. I don't believe it happens ever.
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Just because someone is a streamer or something, doesn't mean that they are godly and will win every match. The game has it's flaws. Streamer or not, they still are a brain against 4.
Losing one gen isn't a bad thing, but it ends up to be a bad thing. I think that post is more of sucking a streamer off.
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He's actually a streamer I stopped watching because of his immense killer bias. I'm not a fan. If you watch his videos, the game is a joke to him. Cake walk. And he still complains, just like Tru3, about how an already powerful or overpowered killer should get buffs.
I don't care what the top 0.01% of survivors could theoretically do. The fact is, most games are a slaughter on behalf of the killer. Scott's opinion is null and void to me because he's good enough that any complaint comes off as whining about wanting to 4k without trying every game.
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Survivors whine just as much if not more than killers from what I’ve seen. I can’t even get 1k half the time without someone crying about something and it’s almost always just poor sportsmanship. As a survivor killers rarely message me and when they do it’s almost always gg
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My God I think you're the first person to ever say I am killer biased, not survivor biased. It happened.
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It's a pvp game. You are going to get salt and trash talk if communication is possible. I can't count the number of times back in the day in WoW that I've had people log over to my faction to hurl insults after they lost a fight. That kind of thing doesn't happen on steam if you close the chat window and decline friend requests. That's typical salt.
What do you see on the forums? A killer circle jerk of complaints about DS and BT, two completely avoidable perks, and gen times by the top 0.01% of survivors stacking every possible advantage in order to pump out gens asap.
There is the occasional complaint about a killer that is usually buried in seconds with whiny killers pretending they don't want to have easy 4ks every game.
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Spirit Fury is a decent efficiency perk, not just for use in chase with Enduring.
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You're a killer main and have said repeatedly in videos that you don't play survivor much. Hell, your survivor gameplay is all meme stuff like the MoM quest.
You're a huntress main. I saw your video complaining about how losing ruin will make you try now. I'm sorry but if you never had to try to 4k, I have no sympathy for you having to actually play the game. The way you talked about having to play dirty now definitely cost you my respect. Though maining huntress on dedicated servers is a little suspect, since you throw car-sized hatchets that hit people around corners and through objects. I respected the long range shots at least.
Anyone saying you have a survivor bias has clearly never seen you play.
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...wait I'm killer biased because I said I'll have to play sweatier without Ruin?
That's it? That's the reason you think I'm killer biased?
Seriously?
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Guys, please stay on topic. This back and forth of who is more biased towards gets us nowhere. @ScottJund already showed us he has no problem doing just fine without Ruin.
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Everyone knows that increasing gen time will just make the game even more boring for everyone. The problem is what you say it is. But the problem with that is they take way too long to fix those things and even the new lerys has god loops. If we wait for map fixes then the game will be broken for the next 2 years. Something needs to be done NOW to get the game in a healthy state then fix maps over time.
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You can literally say the exact same thing about ruin, noed, and that survivors act like they are suppose to all 4 escape every match. It goes both ways
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I've been playing without ruin and wa never phased by the nerf. I learned how to keep pressure without it and while yeah I do get games where I get gen rushed before I could even hook a single person (That happened before the nerf too)I just sucked it up and moved on to the next game. Gen speeds arent the problem before looking at gen speeds look at stuff that make generator speeds a problem toolboxes,prove thyself etc. If you just nerf Gen Speeds people will just run those and we run into the same problem again.
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Gen speed isn't the problem, but since map reworks take time, it is something that can be done as a bandaid fix a lot easier. They can spend months redesigning about 75% of the maps, or they can spend about ten minutes bumping the 80 to 120, or whatever other number you feel is appropriate, just pulled one out of thin air.
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The survivor that made that thread is Lithuanian. A really good survivor player,have seen him play a couple of times here and there
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YoU dUmB KiLlEr MaINs ArE CrYiNg CaUsE yoUR CRUtch Is GoNe. GiT GuD
::equips DH, DS, BT, Unbreakable and hops on comms with three other red rank survivors::
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30 seconds of old ruin is still better than new ruin even if it lasts entire game.
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Although true, there are great alternatives to (Old) Hex: Ruin but you're ignoring the fact that it was core/meta because you can do alot in 60-120 seconds as a killer if you played correctly. The only reason Hex: Ruin wasn't as powerful as it didn't 'slightly' debuff people who can hit greats but tremendously did to people who can't hit greats also it was RNG based so it wasn't as consistent,
not to mention you wouldn't even have made this thread if you faced "Good" survivors every now and then. (Imagine trying to say that the Hex: Ruin nerf was a good change and yet you pretty much debunk your whole argument by saying "Coming from a no ruin killer main")
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Playing the first 60-120sec. correctly? There is no "If you do that or this, then it will work every time" thingy. Never was and never will be. You can get lucky and find a SV in the first 20 sec. or you get unlucky and wonder around for over a minute without seeing anyone.
And I did and still do face "Good" SV. Yet I keep/kept staying around Rank 1. I guess I must've done something right. I also didn't say the Ruin change was good, nor will I say it was bad. Though the timing was actually the wrong thing the devs did. If they actually worked on the problem why Ruin was so popular, instead of pretty much removing it from the game, then we've a whole other story.
And there is no debunking of being a "No Ruin Killer". Yes, there where only a few, but we where there and rekt strong and weak SV, but also got rekt other times. But most times matches average around the 10 minute mark. Go figure.
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OP made great points but has weak evidence. Weak evidence doesn't automatically make his great points not great anymore, just so you know.
Although OP's videos aren't the best, I think OP made great points about the current state of generators.
I believe OP is 100% correct: maps, toolboxes, killer viability, and so on need some changes to better the game's balance.
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I feel like you accidentally stumbled across the problem without even noticing it. Ruin was crippling to low and mid rank survivors. The ruin change acted to hoist these same survivors up. All of a sudden, you get survivors who cant run a chase to save their lives mixed in because its easier for them to pip up, even if they didnt actually get any better. I can stomp on newbies all day who've been given a red rank, I have no doubt about that. I can ALSO stomp on their rank 14 teammates who are still coming into my lobbies.
This was about a week before the ruin changes, where I ended up stomping on a group of survivors that were pretty much scared to touch gens. Game was over fast with only a single gen being done. This game doesnt at all properly illustrate how games at the higher ranks should go, but now...
This was a screenshot on rotten fields. Judging by the ranks, you might assume these guys did WAY better...but that wasnt the case at all. Still kept seeing survivors on my BBQ running on the opposite side of the map from where any gens were so they could heal up. Still managed to score loads of hits because although the ranks are better...they werent any better at actually leading chases. They DID manage to get 3 gens done as oppose to just 1 (im guessing the boxes factored into that abit), so these guys who gave me all sorts of free hits and went down again after 3 seconds of me recovering from a DS stun... They're gonna get queued up for ANOTHER match where their in over their heads, unless the matchmaker screws up again and tosses em a rank 14 killer.
Point being, the ruin change is just hoisting bad survivors up ranks for killers at that rank to stomp on. Its been the case that rank in DBD doesnt mean much, and thats even more the case now. Throw in a busted matchmaker... I can show you screenshots of me stomping teams that shouldnt be in my lobby all day whether they have a red rank icon or not.
This just ends up coming as a quick 180 when you get a team of actual good survivors stomps the killer into the ground, even though they have the exact same ranks as the team before them. Am I saying I should win every game, gimme my 4ks? Course not. Im saying I dont wanna be stomping on newer players who shouldnt be in my lobby, and I'd like the comparisons for these matches to be fair. Show how it works against decent teams who WERENT just given the ranks.
I suppose the silver lining though is I get to play around with lesser killers due to the likelihood of me finding teams out of their depth. I always enjoyed playing as Myers for example, even at high ranks at have always done pretty well with him...
Legion though has always been a huge migraine that I quickly regret whenever I think of a build that could be fun, only to get reminded...its still Legion. Now though, even with Legion I can clean house as long as the teams arnt ACTUALLY good.
sidenote, this game was alot of memeing around from the survivors, it just happened to be the only screenshot I had on hand of a Legion matchup. The build you see is what I've been running to 4k alot.
@NMCKE thoughts on this?
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Something to note, if you edit in something to tag someone, it won't notify them.
Now, about your what was saying, I'm talking about how bad evidence doesn't make a fact
incorrect.If I tell you Huntress can M1 survivors but show you a game where I can only use hatchets, does that make the fact wrong? 😁
Of course not, facts are proven and bad evidence can't change that.
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I'm not trying to disagree with you on that, but rather get your thoughts about what I posted. Thanks for the tip about editing btw.
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Based on your logic, bad killers were boosted by old ruin. That's right, if old ruin outright crippled mid to low rank survivors, that meant mediocre killers were boosted to higher ranks where they could not deal with skilled survivors and would then come to these forums crying about gen times, DS, Adrenaline, BT, and other "Meta" perks.
In reality, that means new ruin is a chance for those boosted killers to learn adaptive skills sooner, thus balancing out boosted survivors who have to learn to run killers sooner than they do bow.
In other words, the change will be good in the long run once boosted players learn to adapt. Thanks for helping me clear that up.
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In a way I guess, since low to mid killers would stomp the survivors who couldnt handle old ruin. The problem however is that old ruin was acting as a sort of dam to keep those low to mid survivors where they were. Now that the dam is broken, they're hitting rank 1 while not being able to perform nearly as well as the survivors who were at rank 1 before. Red rank games NOW vs red rank games just 6 months ago are drastically different between the matchmaking change and now the ruin change. "New generation" red ranks are holding their teams back while a team of "old generation" red ranks are stomping. Its really hard to see how effective anything is on the killer side when theres such a divide there.
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There are really good alternatives: Corrupt Intervention, PGTW, Sloppy Buggers, Thrilling Tremors and others.
I don't really like any of those except for Pop.
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His primary point would be the title of this thread which I would consider the most important point of the thread. Although it's vague as hell, the best translation would be that he doesn't consider genrushing to be a problem when it clearly is. Any survivors who hard focus on genrushing will destroy a killer. People like to be all naive and pretend that if you hook a survivor and then chase another then "Hooray! Now there's 3 survivors not doing gens cause one is on a hook, one is in a chase, and one has to go for the save!" Yet the harsh reality of the situation is that I've been in this situation countless times and it's just as easy that one survivor is on the hook, one survivor is in a chase, and then 2 different gens get popped within 5 seconds of each other before the unhook.
Sure, weak evidence doesn't automatically make great points not great, but you're being dellusional if you think that "genrushing isn't a problem" is a great point.
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Map changes wont fix the issue..the new maps prove that...so I dunno why everyone cant see it
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I don't even know why rotten fields was not removed yet
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big yikes dude
obviously the problem is maps, but the fact you think linking two games where you did well without Ruin and thinking that's any sort of proof is just hilarious that it wasn't necessary and you are like so many others who completely undervalue how even 30 seconds of Ruin was gamechanging. Especially for more slow/setup killers.
So yeah. Maps were the problem, Ruin was the band aid. PGTW forces a playstyle and can make you give up chases, CI is a walk 20 feet and get to a gen perk, the rest are garbage unless you're high mobile and can apply a lot of pressure as a mobile killer or you're playing potatoes.
Guess what? I could've played a few games and 4k as Trapper pre nerf Ruin, or Clown, or Huntress just as easily as I can tell you that it doesn't prove a thing.
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I ignored the evidence because it wasn't worth looking at for obvious reasons and beelined straight to OP's opinion — OP's opinion is very valid to me, just poorly represented by evidence.
Regardless of that, OP didn't say genrushing isn't a problem, OP just said increasing generator repair times isn't the solution to solving genrushing. OP believes it's the maps, toolboxes, killer viability, and so on that's allowing survivors to genrush. Anyone who just looked at the poor videos and clicked off the thread wouldn't know that, that's why I'm telling you — always look at both the evidence and opinion. 😁
You might end up agreeing with OP's opinion even through the evidence is not great. If you disagree, OP will need better evidence to convince you of course. I actually agree with OP if you want to discuss the problem behind genrushing.
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just watch the true talent video 'gen speed are fine" 3 gens done in 1 :45 of video, the survivors only get pressure late game and die then say that its fine, well actually the pressure needs to work since the beggining
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Gen speeds aren't the problem it's the maps and certain perks. God loops, extremely strong areas, overly large maps, exhaustion perks granting survivors free access to those especially strong areas.
When you get a game without any of that it's not so bad. Sucks though when everytime you get near a survivor they sprint burst to the abattoir window. Killer immediately loses a chase and pressure.
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What a horrendous map lol
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You say it only lasts up to a minute but that's literally the reason why people ran it in the first place. It was there to slow down the early game so you could actually get your pressure started. It's a pretty miserable feeling seeing 2 gens go after 1 chase in nearly every game.
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I rarely got to use Ruin outside of using Hag since I didn't play the game enough. So the change doesn't really effect me much. And nowadays since I just came back after a hiatus to try out new Doc, I've been running new Ruin on Doc and it's actually worked wonders for me. I'm able to constantly pressure Survivors and all the time they spend either being chased by me, going for unhooks, and healing is just giving me more time to kill them.
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