True or false - If you think killers need ruin you aren't a good killer
I'm currently rank 1 survivor rank 3 killer and heres what I think. Killer's need to monitor gens. If that means playing hit and run with sloppy then you do what you gotta do. If you devote enough time to a survivor chase to allow them to gen rush you thats your fault not the devs for taking an annoying perk like ruin and making it less annoying. I played a rr swf lobby today as freddy and they got all but 1 gen done because i read their playstyle individually and as a team. I knew i needed to not over commit to 2 of them and that the other 2 would hide for a sec when i checked a gen and wait for me to leave. It was a tough game but I won with skill not a crutch perk that they could've easily cleansed anyways.
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I mean kinda true, but you do need Ruin to not play like a dick, though.
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Nice just apply pressure on everyone using Clown and magically you won't get gen rushed.
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i use to think that still i started playing killer. really the time it takes to hit, chase down and hook a survivor is enough time for 2 gens to be done. ive sometimes chased one person for under 2 minutes and by the time i free to roam again 3 gens have already been done . if im in a good team we can finish all gens no problem
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If you need DS, BT, DH and Adrenaline, you are boosted rank 1 survivor.
Go perkless and dont create bait topics.
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Ruin was never good against a team of good survivors. I agree on that if killers were saying "Ruin is mandatory" they were most likely not good killers.
Ruin however was NOT a crutch perk. The amount of pressure an m1 killer can put out is extremely low outside of a select few characters. Running a perk as a bandaid fix to try and remedy the combination of map sizes and generator speeds is not something that should be seen as using a crutch.
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it just depends on the killer, thats all.
If you have high mobility, can one shot or apply some status that keeps survivors busy, you can do without Ruin.
If you are missing that, for example with the Clown, then....yeah Ruin or the like is very useful if not mandatory.
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I generally agree with you. If Ruin was mandatory they weren't good enough compared to the survivors they faced. That said I still am hoping the devs have something planned for the very near future to help with match speed.
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By the same logic, if you think survivors need BT, you're a bad survivor. It was a bandaid to a problem with core game design.
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Which ones? All the M1 killers have ways to apply pressure. Trapper can instantly end chases with smartly placed traps.
Pig gets ruin built-in with the RBTs. Clown is a monster in the chases. Wraith can bounce targets and actually still get plenty of ruin value just pushing people off gens with sloppy butcher. Demo has his lunge and can also bounce between gens incredibly fast.
Legion/plague everyone is a 1 shot all game, effectively.
Ghostface/myers get free M1s all the time, or one shots if you know how to stalk.
And Oni is just straight up overpowered in his ability if he gets fed it early.
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False. Depending on map, killer and what the survivors are doing, you needed old ruin to have a chance. That's not saying you can't succeed without it. Just had a match as bubba on lerys without ruin and I slaughtered them.
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Thinking killers need ruin or not, has nothing to do with how good you are at the game.
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right so lets clear it up..
ruin was good to help those killers who was more casual or who enjoyed more chases and less slugging etc. while more advanced killers dont need it the perk still slowed the game down against the good survivors.
However from the survivors side ruin was very difficult for alot of casual players, but if you was more adept/skilled you could just hit greats and there wasnt a massive issue.
This means it punishes the more casual killers while benefiting those survivors who arent as good and i personally think the ruin change with the rank reset change is a disaster to the point i wont play survivor, i never minded ruin it never affected me, i could hit greats all the time and i learned totem spawns etc. if encase my team struggled but now i see rank 1`s who cant lead on chases, who dont touch gens because theyre so scared of the killer and overall makes the game no fun due to its inconstant in skill. i will get good killers that destroy my team because my team should really be rank 15`s but then ill have killers who have pipped off these bad red rank survivors an when they come across vet players like me they either DC because i lead on multiple gen chases or they get mad they get a few hooks. while ruin needed a change this wasnt it, its a great new perk but not the perfect way to do it. what they need is to fix ranking so its more focused on your ability to lead chases and do gens and then balance around that, atm if a full team plays like me the killer is going to lose... thats not being cocky or anything thats just because iv played the game X years so i know most things
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Well in all honesty it doesn't matter what they are playing killer or survivor. You shouldn't need a perk.
However certain perks just allow you to play a lot more freely as you don't have to go over board and you can actually just have some casual fun.
As much as I dislike people who abuse decisive strike. It does allow them to play a lot more freely and more relaxed for 60 seconds.
I've always thought the whole notion of if you use x perk. (Insert No one escapes death, decisive strike or whatever controversial perk people want a bash With this particular day.) You're automatically a less skilled player is completely stupid.
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I disagree. There are some builds that are way more effective than Ruin that allow you to play fair.
Forever Freddy is a good example. Sloppy, Thana, Dying Light, Pop, Chains, Rope. You can play as fair as you want with this build because the game will just go so incredibly slow for survivors. You could argue that the build itself is kind of dickish, but the point is that you don't have to play like one to win this game.
Likewise, use the MDR/Amulet combo on Spirit and you will have such insane map pressure you don't have to play like a dick here either.
Not all killers have such an option, but I just don't buy that a single perk would allow you to play fair. That comes more down to survivors and the events that unfold. Like if you have Ruin and 3 gens pop in your first chase anyway (something normal for rank 1 on Xbox because nearly every game is a 3/4 man SWF) then you're gonna have to play like a dick to compensate. Ruin did nothing here.
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I stay in my lane when it comes to killer balance. However of the ones I play
Clowns "Monstrous chase" is countered by dropping pallets early. His map rotations are even worse than the standard killer because he wastes 5 seconds after every other chase moving slower than a walking survivor. Clown isn't even a killer with 0 pressure. The guy has negative pressure.
Pig traps are completely RNG, sure they could theoretically stall a game out so that she's able to apply pressure, but they could also be completely useless that game and do next to nothing for the pig player. I don't think it's fair to even mention RBT's as a pressure tool because of the radically different outcomes they can bring every game. The hambush is the real meat of the power.
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True. At least for that specific wording.
If you think killers literally need old Ruin to win, in the sense that it's impossible to win without it, then either you're a bad killer or the killers whose gameplay you're basing that conclusion off are bad killers.
However, if you think that old Ruin was a powerful perk and made it much easier to win, or to apply early game pressure, that's a perfectly reasonable position to take. It doesn't make you a bad player. At worst, it just makes you someone who relied overmuch on a single (powerful) strategy.
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So, it's not that killers need ruin per say. They need the ability to apply pressure on large maps, or for maps to be downsized. Some killers can do it. Like, Hillbilly, Freddy, Nurse or Spirit. Other kills can walk from one end of the map to the other, and have 3 gens done by the time they get there. Namely Huntress and Hag to an extent.
Killers who require preparation (Trapper, Hag) need to be able to apply pressure, and ruin gave them that. The main thing is, the difference in difficulty between some killers, and literally everything survivor, is way too skewed.
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Weird, I must have missed the part where OP made any reference whatsoever to their survivor build.
Don't make baseless assumptions about other people or their intentions just because you don't agree with them.
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These killers must have been the luckiest killers in the world. For me Ruin was often gone within the first 30-60 seconds. Sometimes they even spawned on it. I basically played so many games where it was a wasted perkslot that it has been quite easy for me to adapt.
If someone really feels the game has changed that much then they must have had it lasting multiple minutes each time.
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Ultimately, this. I stopped carrying ruin on all killers LONG before it was changed because after 30-60 seconds, it was always a game where I only had 3 perks. And I still managed to get at least a 2k in just about all my games with all killers in red ranks, and more often than not it would be at least a 3k.
And 2k is a good game. That is a balanced outcome. The ideal average game.
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False. Fix the gen times, not the killer. This magical amount of 'skill' required to stop gens from flying is non-existent. Without NOED, gen slow down perks, or camping/slugging you can't win.
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I agree with you Fibi, certain perks don't automatically make you a bad player. You shouldn't assume players are X because they used Y. 😁
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Tbh I believe some killers do need old ruin like trapper maybe hag and leather face. Trapper needs time to set traps even with time add ons hag needs same but she has good mobility if there set off and well bubba is extremely slow to get around a big map like auto haven. Maybe I’m just “bad” but idk I play all 3 and I’ve noticed old ruin really helped out
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You are such a noob 🤭😝
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Results are the proof also the devs are introducing the method to determine good or bad skill level.
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I disagree. Ruin was a great perk for many killers. The biggest problem is the devs are catering to new players that complain too much and don't take the time to learn to overcome the hex. How many veterans out here learned how to either search for the totem or just work through it and hit those great checks. I know I sure did. I used to play 50/50 survivor and killer and now with most of my fav killers being crippled its more like 70/30. Killers that need time to set up (Hag, trapper etc) are almost worthless now unless you get a garbage survivor group. The new meta is now fast map traversing killers and even then you will still see almost 3 gens done in the first 3-4 minutes because you still gotta get hits and downs and hooks. Long story short it's a poor business practice to always attract new customers than to keep old ones who keep coming back (many veterans leaving the game).
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I'm a rank 1 killer and survivor and i play often Clown against red ranks survivor. Brutal Strenght, Enduring, Play with your Food, Save the Best for Last or Thrilling Tremors, Pop, Save the Best for Last and Sloppy Butcher
I get 4k with mid-high difficulty. So i guess Ruin is not mandatory after all...maybe only trash killer always used Ruin because they can't end chase very quickly and they were sooo bad at the game?
If Old Ruin is really mandatory why Killers can get often 4k in red ranks without Ruin after the nerf?
Maybe the problem is and ever will be SWF? Maybe the majority of the killer's community is a bunch of weaklings? Or Red Ranks Survivor are truly average or below average to a good killer and they only capable to wins with a premade team?
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Yes because every killer can just teleport to gens
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Am I the only one getting annoyed at these few posts that act as blanket statements? 'I can do this well, thus my way is correct and everybody that can't just isn't skilled.'
It's also like players don't understand what Ruin was for. Ruin was meant to buy, at most, two extra minutes in the early game to get the ball rolling, not last all match. There are other ways to slow the game down, sure, and on small maps, you can pressure pretty well with nearly every killer. Yet Ruin enabled me to not have to sweat out my pores because two gens pop by the time I circle the map once, thus forcing me to slug slug slug.Survivors would have a decent match, i would have a decent match, everybody was usually happy. Now, nobody is happy.
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Of course it's true.
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False.
Many very well known players (including streamers) used Ruin in their builds for a long time and stats wise it was used on red ranks very frequently for a long time. That doesnt mean Old Ruin was a good perk or that it was impossible to play without it. It just doesnt follow logically that if you rely or relied at any point on the perk that you don't have skill. To know that you have to see how the person plays, not simply look at the perk he was using.
If you think the contrary, imagine all those elitists saying that it is TRUE. In this case, this person that used Old Ruin was using a very bad perk and still was winning, otherwise he would not be using it. In this case, wouldnt that person actually be a good killer since he was running with 3 perks all the time? It makes no sense to say it was a crappy perk and say that killers who used it need to be bad in the same sentence. That is illogical.
Edit: its also important to make a distinction, because you can understand that average killers needed it still doesnt make you a good or bad killer, it just recognizes you can see that other people can be different from you (not playing on either end of the spectrum as well - rank 1 or 20s, where this game is comically unballanced), its simple common sense.
Post edited by Chekita on2 -
Your way is the highway I suppose. Not everyone has your "build" or "skill". As it was mentioned before, for killers that required some setup ruin was good for preventing the loss of a gen or two within a minute.
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Trick question not that all killers that used to are bad but the ones who couldn't win without it are. The ruin rework is gonna force the killers that couldn't win without it better at the game.
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Honestly one full minute of 3 survivors looking for the ruin was one less gen popped before your first hook. It was worth it for some killers.
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I have been a survivor main for a good while, R1 a couple of times, and the honest hard truth is the Meta has just shifted more for killer than it possibly (debatably) ever has. Even as a survivor, I had become so accustomed to Ruin the way it was, that I kinda miss the red skill checks it gave me. The slight relief knowing a killer had wasted a skill slot on it. Most matches with Ruin, to my experience, had the hex spawned on and destroyed immediely, or just ignored, honestly. What really needs to happen, with this community as a whole, is an adjustment period. What I mean is, every time something new happens, or a change is implemented, large or small, there is a large, vocal response, that sometimes turns into an echo chamber, and disallows room for debate on the subject. As a survivor, in games currently, this is reflected in long queues and spamming Moris. Killers are upset, and maybe rightfully so. Even as a survivor, I have to admit we get way more tools than we should to survive, and the game is made easier than it should be for us, but that, again, is an arguable opinion. As a Killer, the role I play less, I used the perk then as a crutch in purples and greens to figure out the flow of the game. Since the rework, I've found ways to implement it in new build designs to give me informations. As OP said Hit and Run seems to be the best Meta playstyle for new Ruin but it's still fairly new, and I'm not a Killer main, so idk. All I see on my side is a bunch of Doctors and Stealth killers now, an obvious meta shift that, of course, is going to come with some backlash from the playerbase. I recall when DS was first nerfed, and everyone yelled about bias against survs, yet here it stands today in everyone's perk choices.
I digress, felt the need to comment, we'll see what is done moving forward
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I agree that ruin was not needed vs your average r1 urban evading / spine chill survivors that cant lead killer in chase for more than 10 seconds. Yet overall it gave killers more relaxing gaming experience, especially when going against toolbox(es).
But what do I know, Im just getting bored of sitting 10 mins in que for 5 minute game.
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I agree, because old Ruin made killers abandon the job of patrolling gens and instead only focused in survivors. If one of the objectives is defend the gens, then they should be able to do both. I also play killer a lot, and the Ruin thing didn't affect me at all.
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I like how he implies that Killers need to adapt to new strategies, but it was too much to ask survivors to go find a totem.
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False.
Rank 1 Killer and rank 4 surivor here, I personally don't really mind ruin from ether sides, I no longer use it for the fact that it can be cleansed, so I optimize for other gen protecting perks like Pop and Overcharge.
I personally don't think you're a bad killer if you use ruin, it's basically a wheelchair for a handicap person, the way I see it, new ruin is decent in regular ranks but it's downright useless in ranks since it can be cleansed quickly, then again same with the old ruin, ether way I just think the new ruin might not live up to the old one.
Doesn't really help that the poor match making makes me encounter purple, green and even yellow survivor ranks too, which I would just thumbs the killer up and leave. I personally think a bigger issue is the ######### matchmaking system that puts low rank killers to red rank survivors basically incentivising the killer to get ruin.
Then again I'm a biased killer main who doesn't give a ######### whether he's called a bad killer or not or what builds he used. Perhaps my take here can immediately get debunked here. Oh well I guess.
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People over-estimate how effective the old ruin was
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True or false: if you use "ruin" you are automatically a bad or not a good killer?
False! If we were talking about "ruin" pre-rework. I would say true, however this discussion is taking place after rework.
"Ruin" is a perk that increases the regression rate on generator's when survivors aren't working on them (if the generator has any progression at all). Killer's can force players off generator's and can decide to go for the chase, to leave the chase and patrol generator's, or to check his/her hex totem. This strategy is called "pressure", to force survivors away from an objective or do a separate objective. This does involve critical killer decisions, being that the killer has 3 objectives now. s/he has to decided if they can stop the chase in little time, or if they should just go to another objective to make the game last longer. "Ruin" rewards killers that patrol generator's, and punishes those who don't coordinate and communicate with generator progression's. "Ruin" is entirely avoidable. You might even go the whole game without realizing s/he has "ruin". "Ruin" does not reward the unskilled. Unskilled players will be faced with challenges such as long chases, bad map navigation, survivor detection, and other minut details. This will give survivors plenty of opportunities to do generator's without getting into a chase.
This topic of discussion isn't even accurate. A "skilled killer" is a killer that can use the selected killer's abilities like a fine tuned machine and get at least 2 kills every game. Perks are only a bonus. The topic of, "well if I use this item, mod, or perk then does this make me bad or good?" Is almost completely invalid. The only time this discussion should come up is if a player has dedicated time into the video game and persist's using a item, mod, or perk that is mean to help people new to the game. There are only 2 perks I see a problem like this with. "No one escapes death" and "prove thyself". "No one escapes death" is supposed to help new players get kills due to them being a little slow at grasping the game. However countless veterans will use this perk because it is a perk that doesnt require a action, it doesnt require skill, and It is very reliable. To have equipped NOED means you recognize that you expect to go into endgame. You expect yourself to do poorly or will attempt to do poorly. That's fine for new player's and player's getting challenges done, but for veteran's playing just to play? That's sad news. I dont think many of you would expect me to say "prove thyself" but allow me to elaborate. "Prove thyself" is supposed to be a realization perk for new players. "If I get on this generator with this guy, we can get it done faster". This perk is just to amplify that. However in the wrong hands this perk is nasty. With a well coordinated SWF group, all 5 generator's could literally be finished in under 5 minutes! Assuming all 5 generator's can have 3 people on it and everyone has toolboxes(not uncommon) and a bit of a distance between each generator. This is possible, and that's not even going into the add-on's. This perk isnt talked about often but I've seen SWF groups gen rush me with this perk and it's not fun. I wind up having to slug, I tunnel, I make sure I try and get at least 2 kills. I get called trash, and I should kill myself for being so s*** at the game.
General conclusion: you are NOT a bad killer for using ruin, or most perks for that matter. Same goes for the survivors. Using "that perk" does not mean you are a bad survivor. It is all about the playstyle.
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That reminds me of killers back in the old days, when they would say things like' Well, once infinites are gone, we won't need to play like a dik anymore'......
BTW I'm talking REAL infinites too, not the pseudo-infinites bad killers hang onto nowadays, and that was a time before Hex Ruin was around.
geegee
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I've noticed almost every survivor in the few killer games I played yesterday had DH, BT, SB, DS, and 1 had OoO..... It's sooooo frustrating especially when you know they are all communicating vital information and have such a set plan on who has what roles with 2 toolboxes, med kit, and OoO with the flashlight, lol. The fact that they get soooo mad if you happen to kill 1 or 2 survivors which usually only happens because they absolutely refuse to leave anyone behind or because they know where all the god loops and windows or jungle gyms are. It's such a different experience playing as a solo survivor or against solo survivors. Ruin isn't necessary, the problem is SWF or comms to be more accurate.
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Theoretically, a good killer doesn't need perks.
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This pretty much says it all. The killers are not equal. Majority of them needed some type of early game pressure to stand a chance against decent survivors. Could it be done without ruin? yes but you will have your try hard pants on. Not all killers want to play hard core all the time.
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IMO i play both sides rank 2 survivor and rank 5 killer its not need and ur bad if you need hex t l too a secure a good game run currupt on low mobilty killers myself really never used ruin its called pressuring gens only good killers know how to pressure and chase survivors at the same time
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There are some killers too weak to perform well without ruin imo. Luckily, they are going to be buffed.
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Why ask the wrong question?
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You needed old ruin for maybe a minute or 2 at the beginning but that was it really, then it could be destroyed.
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The same could be said about SwF's too then. Only diff is the killer can't cleanse a totem and disable your mics...
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