I don't like the sound of the upcoming Plague changes.
Now, before you grab your pitchforks, I'm not calling Plague overpowered. I don't think anyone in their right mind would ever call Plague anything other than low-to-mid C tier on her absolute best days. But being a weak Killer does not excuse the fact that Plague is, frankly, one of the worst power designs in the entire game—and this upcoming change puts a major highlight on that, I feel.
Here's the issue I have with Plague. If she vomits on you and you get sick, it doesn't really do much. Surviving while sick is hardly different from surviving while normally injured, with the exception that you can neither heal nor be stealthy—
And there's my problem. Being sick all but removes two mechanics from the game. You literally CANNOT heal by conventional means against a Plague, and stealth is just about deleted because no matter what you do, you will be constantly broadcasting your location to her if you try to sneak around her, and you leave a trail of infected objects if you try to sneak away from her. Urban Evasion, Iron Will, Quick and Quiet, Fixated, literally any healing Perk in the entire game—these are all Perks that are, no exaggeration, completely useless against the Plague.
Of course, the meta is looping and you can easily loop while injured. But there are plenty of players who DON'T like the meta. They like to be stealthy. They like to heal themselves and others. They like to explore different avenues of play that aren't just "me run around pallet, me rush gen with adrenaline". But if they just so happen to go against a Plague? Too bad, buckaroo, your build and playstyle literally do not exist anymore.
This is what makes Plague so unfun to go against for me, and is why I think she's badly designed. She encourages the boring, overpowered Survivor meta because two of the most popular off-meta playstyles are completely disabled against her. It's not strong at all, because they're off-meta playstyles, but she just... she just disables them. Completely disables them.
And if you want it back? If you want the opportunity to heal? If you want to be stealthy? Well, then you have to give her one of the strongest, most braindead anti-loop abilities in the entire game, and even then she can take away all of your stealth and healing again with the mere press of the M2 button in your general direction.
I think that this is a terrible set of decisions. You either sacrifice your off-meta build in exchange for making Plague the most M1 Killer in the entire game, or you take back your off-meta build for a fleeting instance in exchange for temporarily making her one of the strongest chasers in the entire game. The imbalance between choosing to be sick or choosing to give Plague her Corrupt Purge is so poorly weighted, and neither option is anything short of infuriatingly annoying. You should never cleanse against a Plague because she is a pathetic, sobbing mess of a Killer without Corrupt Purge, but then you have two entire game mechanics literally deleted from the game for the rest of the match. It's no fun for anyone involved.
And then to top it all off, with the upcoming change that gives Plague a basekit pool already corrupted, you don't even get to make that choice until she's already expunged her Corrupt Purge. No strategy involved on your part. No good to come out of your actions. You either keep your healing and stealth and give Plague her bastardized lovechild of Huntress and Bubba, or you get rid of your healing and stealth... and give Plague her bastardized lovechild of Huntress and Bubba. Every single choice is a terrible one.
I think this new change is a perfect example of Plague's terrible game design. Survivors were given a choice of what to do against her, and the choice was always terribly obvious because one option made Plague insanely strong while the other made her insanely weak. But in exchange for making her weak, genrushing without healing and hugging loops all game goes from the M.E.T.A., the most effective tactic available to the O.E.T.A., the only effective tactic available. Now, with this upcoming change, until Plague uses her Corrupt, that choice is made for them. Whether or not they choose to turn the M.E.T.A. into the O.E.T.A., they still have to deal with that braindead chase power, even if only once in the match—and with the right build (pronounced "Infectious Fright"), that one time could be all the Plague needs.
In short: I think the Plague is terribly designed and in dire need of a rework, if not to her power, then to the effects of the different types of vomit, and this new change exemplifies that. I think being sick should be significantly more of a threat than just removing two non-meta playstyles from the game, and Corrupt shouldn't be nearly as strong as it is. The two should be more in-line with each other in terms of how powerful they are so that the decision of whether or not to cleanse isn't so painfully and utterly obvious as it is right now, but at the same time, the Plague shouldn't be given the opportunity to almost break the game for people who don't like to sweat the meta with a mere press of the M2 button. Being sick should do something like directly affect your ability to loop with something like slower vaulting speed or making it more difficult to move in a straight line while running, or hamper your ability to do the objective with substantially difficult skill checks or something of the sort. Something the meta actually gives one about. Meanwhile, Corrupt shouldn't be nearly as powerful and cheesy as it is. The range and amount of the vomit should be cut back to a point where it gives Plague an edge in loops rather than an iron fist. She should be able to punish people for messing up loops with it, not able to punish people for being in her line-of-sight.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
Comments
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I cannot believe that you’d think this makes Plague overpowered 🤦♂️
/s
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Way to looong to read, so I will just say:
They only made the yellow apple basekit, its not something new, it was a thing already.
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Way to completely ignore anything I said. And yeah, the apples are her strongest addons for a reason. Making an addon basekit is not the solution to terrible game design.
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Plague is terrible.
Read my reply to Archimedes5000.
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The Plague change was necessary. Survivors should never be able to dictate the power of a killer. It's not very significant, but eh, killers take what we can get these days.
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This change will actually encourage a lot of survivors to cleanse, meaning: play the match the way the dev’s envisioned it. Because when I played her, cleanses snowballed after the first one.
She’s not a strong killer. Buffs to weaker killers is exactly what they should be thinking about.
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everything you just said is why i love playing plague, especially the part on how she renders healing perks useless :)
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I mean, you just dont like Plague AT ALL.
You cant expect devs to do a rework of a mid tier killer that enough people like.
The change itself is just making her yellow addon basekit, so it wont be anything gamebreaking, you can afford a yellow addon every game even without BBQ.
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If you ever play Plague ( I main her), you'll understand how much time it costs to go to a fountain.
You practically have to be in the area or else you lose momentum quickly. Also, as pointed out in the previous post, you can already spawn with one fountain (corrupted). After she uses it, you can go back to not cleansing.
Imagine you have a toolbox but can only use it if you have an add on. It would be the equivalent of that.
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Did you people even read what I said? I'm not calling Plague strong. I literally said that unless you cleanse, she's one of the worst Killers in the entire game. What I'm saying is that the choice between cleansing and not cleansing is way too obvious, and both options are extremely unfun and annoying. There needs to be more weight to being sick but less weight to Corrupt Purge, so that choosing whether or not to cleanse actually has weight to it.
Also, @Steel_Eyed: "This change will actually encourage a lot of survivors to cleanse, too,"
Hardly. It'll just make Survivors wait until Plague uses her first Corrupt, and then play like they normally would against her before this change.
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So, you're just proving my point that Plague is both weak and terribly designed. Got it.
Also, I used to play Plague extensively before I realized she was just a boring version of Legion with no height mindgames. And I can say with certainty that her power's design needs some serious looking into.
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Devs should be actually buffing her more to be honest
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So you love that Plague encourages the ridiculously strong Survivor meta of "don't heal, do gens" and further kills build/playstyle diversity? You love that her power is completely and utterly controlled by Survivors in exchange for being so boring for everyone involved it hurts? You love that she's bad for the game?
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I agree. I wholeheartedly agree. Plague is in dire need of buffs. But this is not the way to go about it. There's good and bad ways to buff weak Killers, and this is a bad way in my eyes.
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Well what if she doesnt use it right away? Its just like apple, it forces surviviors to cleanse the same way. You use it at a good moment, and you have 2 hooks and 2 broken. Gg with infectious
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I don't think she is weak or terribly designed. I think her design is pretty straight forward, doesn't mean you have to like it.
This change was only needed to balance the requirement to always bring an apple as an add on if you wanted to have earlier access her secondary ability. Otherwise you heavily relied on survivors cleansing.
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Well then you just equip Infectious, get everyone broken, and then use your Corrupt. Congratulations, you are now a better slug-based Killer than Oni. And if they cleanse? Well, now you have that many extra minutes of Corrupt Purge to make yourself a slugging god. Ez game, ez life. So fun and fair, am I right? I'm glad the only other option to this is being an M1 Killer with no power. 10/10 game design.
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Nope i run "battle plague" where i use bbq, infectious fright, pgtw, and blood echo. Since im already good at downing people without her power and my build often lets me get multiple downs survivors cleanse against me since they either want heals or their exhaustion perks and then i snowball. If anything im forcing them to cleanse unless they want to be easily downed and give me my pgtw and blood echo activation throughout the entire game.
edit: and yes this happens consistently
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If you don't cleanse, Plague has no power whatsoever and encourages the obnoxious, overpowered no-heal genrush meta. She has nothing to help her in a chase, and her height makes her even worse at certain mindgames than someone like Freddy or Legion.
If you do cleanse, Plague becomes the easiest Killer in the entire game. Even old Legion was harder to get a down with than Corrupt Plague.
How is that good game design? How is that a good Killer at all?
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You just said that Plague was weak.
She had apples all along, then why isnt she the "best slug based killer" right now?
Plague is not OP, adding an addon she can afford every game anyway as a basekit will not change much.
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The appples do make her the best slug Killer in the game. But having good addons doesn't make a Killer good, nor do they fix the problems present in their kit. Now, she just has an apple every game.
Fun.
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Odd how shallow "meta" has become. It used to mean layered.
But you're right, her tactics are pretty shallow. Vomit, rinse, repeat. Blood sprinkler.
Maybe allow healing but it resets the timer, like you do with Freddy? Or fountains partially corrupt depending on your level of sickness? Maybe a system where continuous contact with infected items gets you sick rather than passively getting sicker? But you still spread it yourself. So doing gens breaks you.
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If Survivors are going down against a Plague without Corrupt Purge, it's not because Plague is a good Killer. There's a reason no one in their right mind thinks M1 Killers with no chase power are good. If this is happening consistently for you, then you are consistently going against Survivors who cannot loop.
I'm sorry, but there's no other way around it. Without Corrupt, Plague has literally no power in a chase. If Survivors are dying to a Killer with no power, then it's not because that Killer is strong.
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Plague is super bad in chases because of her slow movement speed. So she's weak to looping. The compensation for this is that her power has a long range and her sickness effect means that she usually only needs one hit to end chases since no one heals.
Basically, she removes stealthy playstyles at the expense of being weak to aggressive playstyles
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You were just saying she is a weak killer...
And yes, brown and yellow addons do affect if a killer is strong or not. Eg: Trapper is not the worst killer just because he has bags.
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ah yes every survivor i faced in R1 was bad, and thats where your wrong, when someone is broken and exhausted its easier than you think to land just 1 hit. currently after this bugged rank reset i have been placed in R10 from R1 and am getting 4k after 4k with plague, hag, and doctor. So far i have not lost a single match with plague while going against people who have also been reset to R10 from R1. Or maybe everyone i've ever faced with plague from the past few days and before the reset were trash.
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I actually enjoy facing Plague (except when I'm doung challenges) and lovr playing as her.
I'm feckin ready for these changes.
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"Or maybe everyone i've ever faced with plague from the past few days and before the reset were trash."
Considering it is a known fact that rank is absolutely, positively, not indicative of skill, I'd say that yeah, that's entirely likely. Do you know how many Survivors I go against at red ranks who camp pallets against a Frenzying Legion AFTER THEY'VE BEEN GIVEN DEEP WOUND? Because believe it or not, I think I've seen more of those people in red ranks than green ranks.
Most DBD players kind of suck at the game, Survivors and Killers alike. And rank does little to separate the wheat from the chaff.
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she has normal movement speed, same as any other killer except she basically one shots everyone when they refuse to cleanse and if they do shes huntress on steroids but with a medium range.
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Plague IS a bad Killer. She's weak and badly designed. Addons don't change that. Her basekit does. I think this buff makes her significantly stronger, but not in a way that's good for the game.
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I don’t understand why people think her power is OP. You literally just do what people do against Oni: play safe and stealthy while she has it and then it’s gone.
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Except that stealth doesn't exist against Plague. That's... you know, the literal point of vomiting all the time. The only people who can stealth a Plague while she's Corrupt have either not been sickened yet, in which case the Plague is using her Corrupt too early and misplaying hard, or have already cleansed, in which case they give her access to Corrupt in the first place.
Plus, Infectious is her teachable.
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Stealth does exist against the plague, just learn already, she has been out for a year
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If she is so weak why do i rarely lose with her when playing at the highest rank? why does my build force people to cleanse? It simple even if she has nothing but making people one shot, she can still find them easily and when using blood echo she effectively gets rid of everyone's exhaustion perks, which makes then easier to down and cause them to want to cleanse.
I have had plenty of games where no one cleanses but i still 4k because i keep using pgtw to prevent gens from getting done as i get down after down. Just because you say she is weak does not mean there is no effective way of playing her that makes her strong. You might as well say ghost face sucks when their is a good build and play style for him that turns him into a viable killer and that build is of course his anti heal build with nurses or whatever its called.
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In what absolute nether realm does stealth exist against the Plague? Vomiting is louder than being injured and doesn't go away with Iron Will, anything you interact with becomes infected and displays that someone has recently been there, and your character has a constant trail of green smoke floating up from their model. If you get stealthed by an infected Survivor, you need a medical examination.
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Again. You underestimate her Vile Purge. You can still win even if you don't use her special ability.
Corrupt Purge is not her only power. She is not an M1 killer simply because of that. Corrupt can inflict damage but it can't infect objects or survivors. So you're simply changing your gameplay style. She is only powerful with it in the right circumstance (Camping while 2 injured people are around a hook and you have corrupt) for example.
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I already answered that question: Most Survivors are terrible, even at red ranks. You can win with Spirit without using her phase against the average red rank Survivor. Trust me: I've done it.
Rank is not indicative of skill, and most red rank Survivors are just as terrible as green ranks. Against Survivors who are actually good, Plague has literally no power. Survivors don't need Exhaustion Perks or an extra health state to loop unless they suck peen.
Also, the anti-heal build for Ghostface is awful. Literally just lean.
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Ah, yes, I underestimate being the most M1 Killer in the entire game. Vile Purge is so incredibly good. I love how it does nothing against people who are already injured and I have nothing but my loopable M1 to save me. Top tier Killer.
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You can still make them sick and if they work alongside of another 'healthy' teammate, can also make them sick.
It is good. You just need to understand how to use it.
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I wholeheartedly agree.
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i have come to conclusion that you yourself probably are not good enough to make killers viable with appropriate builds and also saying that everyone i play against as plague is trash is... a very illogical and ignorant way of thinking to say the least. if you want to argue like that then i might as well be talking to an anti vaxxer or a brick wall.
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How many times do I have to say it? Being. Injured. Isn't. Scary. It does not make you weaker in a chase. It does make you worse at doing your objective. It does not remove any game mechanics. All it does is cause the Killer to actually get something out of hitting you. If being injured was scary, people would heal way more often. But they don't. They don't need to worry about going down too fast when they still have every single tool at their disposal to survive. That's why not healing is the meta. Hell, if you bring the right build, you can actually be STRONGER while injured.
Vile Purge injures. That's all it does. It's not good.
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Apples are quite useless to me honestly, especially when you're running PWYF+Nemesis. Nobody is staying injured against a 130% speed killer, even the meta perks besides Unbreakable won't save you from that.
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Another form of survivor bias showing. You're basically saying "Survivors should have control over the killers powers, btw i dont care if you can't play off meta killers because survivors demolish them. Survivors should be able to to have any meta, looping, stealth, healer I DONT CARE." Moving on....
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The Plague is such an underrated killer.
1. Survivors refuse to purge themselves to avoid giving the killer too powerful and punitive power.
2. The killers complain that the survivors are only forced to play the whole game injured, under Broken status, coughing and vomiting, etc. It was clearly a very easy situation for the survivors, of course.
3. The developers' solution is: give the Plague the possibility of using an absurd power from the start of the game.
No, this is not good at all. Yes, the Plague deserves a rework.
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Well, if you want to bring rank or even simply knowing how to play Killer into it, here's a list of all the Killers I've hit red rank with and have been able to 4k with consistently:
-Oni
-Ghostface (without the anti-heal build)
-Old Freddy
-Demogorgon
-Legion
-Myers
-Spirit
-Plague (without ever using Corrupt)
All while wasting a Perk slot on Shadowborn on everyone listed except Old Freddy and Spirit.
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When Plague can use Corrupt Purge she is actually a very strong killer. I'm happy with this change because it means she can actually use her power and will be at the level she SHOULD be.
However this change make apples somewhat obsolete, so I hope the devs decide to rework those add-ons now. Maybe something like they increase cleanse time, that would be reasonable.
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That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying the complete opposite of everything you just said, in fact. I'm saying that the gap between Vile and Corrupt Purge should be narrowed so that cleansing or not cleansing is a less obvious decision with more weight, and no matter what decision, the Survivors don't get to control the Plague's power, and the decision they make should not affect whether or not she gets a foothold, but rather what kind of foothold she gets. I'm also saying that Plague encourages an unfun, overpowered Survivor meta and should be tweaked to encourage Perk diversity to help lower the chances of Killers facing the same builds every single game.
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The problem with this is that Corrupt shouldn't be the ONLY avenue at which Plague gets to have a real power. Like I've stated NUMEROUS times in this thread, I'm not saying that Plague should receive a blanket nerf because of how strong Corrupt is; I'm saying that Vile Purge should be buffed in tandem to a nerf to Corrupt so that the choice between cleansing and not cleansing actually has weight, and Survivors can't just deny Plague's power with one choice while at the same time getting bent over no matter what choice they make because Corrupt is so powerful.
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thats a good list but im talking about one of my mains who i constantly do good with, she is my second most played killer behind hag and while you can get to red rank with any killer its still a lot harder to do so with survivor. unless you have literally played over 100 games with plague or in my case more, by your own words how do you know what survivors you played against were trash? or if you just versed some good survivors while you were only semi-decent with plague. because i have faced plenty of groups who know how to loop and do gens effectively yet i still came out on top.
edit: to me this seems to be just an issue where you suck playing as a certain killer and as such call her weak.
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