I don't like the sound of the upcoming Plague changes.
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"while you can get to red rank with any killer its still a lot harder to do so with survivor."
... Are you okay? Getting to red rank as Survivor is piss easy. That's literally the problem. That's WHY rank doesn't indicate skill. Ranking up is too easy to do.
"by your own words how do you know what survivors you played against were trash?"
I don't. Which is EXACTLY WHY I'm stating rank is irrelevant.
"i have faced plenty of groups who know how to loop and do gens effectively yet i still came out on top."
Then they either made plenty of mistakes such as being too altruism-heavy or trying to pull off certain stunts, or they aren't as good as you're saying.
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"I think this new change is a perfect example of Plague's terrible game design. Survivors were given a choice of what to do against her, and the choice was always terribly obvious because one option made Plague insanely strong while the other made her insanely weak. " This is what you said. Correct me if im wrong but from what you're saying it sounds like you still want that choice and option. And if you wanna bring the factor of fun in this, i want loops gone, they are annoying and unfun to go against.
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You can say it as many times as you'd like.
Being sick/broken makes you vulnerable. You are one hit away from getting downed. Someone without exhaustion perks, someone who mainly brought healing perks and stays sick isn't going to have much to rely on.
A lot of the why survivors should cleanse depends on the skill of the killer. If the killer is bad with Vile Purge, they will be bad with Corrupt Purge. Which is why I think you are putting too much emphasis on closing the gap between Vile and Corrupt.
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Yes, you are wrong. I want Survivors to be forced to actually make a choice. Right now the choice is totally obvious; one option denies Plague any semblance of a useful power while the other makes her Huntress but easy as pie. I want the choices to be more balanced in how they affect the Plague's strength, so that Survivors cannot control the Plague's power and actually need to make a decision.
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Just loop. That's all I can say. Just loop.
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im sorry i meant to say solo survivor since thats how i play, and again your literally calling every survivor i played against trash. like i said earlier its like talking to a brink wall so im just going to leave this here since you are literally like talking to a brick wall who refuses to accept anything that doesn't suit your argument to the point where you call everyone i play against weak which is just plane ignorance.
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I couldn't agree more with what you said about Plague. My question is that how would you solve the problems with her to make her fun for both sides? Obviously, it's easy to complain about something rather than giving an answer on how to solve it. You did speak of a few changes but it comes off as a nerf. So I just want to know how you would charge it with a bit more detail and if it would be considered as a nerf or buff (maybe neither). Just so most people won't get the idea of you being a "crybaby survivor main".
When reading your sentence, even though you said you are not calling her op and all. It still comes across as you saying she is broken or should be nerf.
Just want to make sure you know that.
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I agree, solo Survivor is annoying and difficult to rank up with. When I play Survivor, I never go in any SWF. I never bring "meta" Perks. I prefer to be altrusitic and help others rather than do gens and loop. But the fact of the matter is, that's not how the majority of Survivors play at red ranks. They play with voice comms. They run Exhaustion Perks. They run Perks that give them edges while injured. They run second chance Perks. They try to loop for as long as possible so that the Killer is distracted and can't pressure gens. They hammer gens so that the Killer has to make chases extremely short to have decent pressure. They run the meta. And the meta is both ridiculously easy and ridiculously powerful. That's why what we're doing when we play Survivor is called "non-meta." That's why we have a harder time ranking up. And that's why rank is so rarely indicative of skill, because almost everyone at high ranks runs the meta, and the current meta is so easy to master it's insane.
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Exactly. Walking to a fountain can waste ALOT of time. That's why sometimes I don't even rely on Corrupt. I don't even think it's worth it at some points.
Some people are just making sound like she is some god when she gets her corrupt. 🤣
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yea her power on her own isn't too strong which is why you need certain perks, she has always been a perk based killer and thats not a bad thing, only killers who need certain addons to be viable are bad.
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She's not that bad. The only issue with the Plague is the difference in attitude of the survivors. Some want to cleanse, others think you should never cleanse. If I play Plague and someone cleanses you should see the salt and abuse that cleansing survivor will get post-game.
It's not that bad cleansing against Plague. If she gets corrupt just do your best Claudette impersonation and go immersed like you would against Tier 3 Myers. You just need to be careful about when you cleanse. Don't do it everytime you're affected but at key moments, and try to cleanse at the far edges of the map so that she can't easily reach those fountains without giving up presssure.
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Firstly, I would make Vile Purge do something drastically different than just making people broken and forcing constant sick noises. I would reduce the rates at which Survivors make sick sounds and remove the green smoke that rises from their body when fully infected. I would also make sick Survivors able to heal. In exchange, I would make it so that being sick gradually increases the risk of stumbling a little bit, so that beelining towards a vault or something isn't as braindead easy and makes getting away harder. I would also make skill checks much more frequent and much more difficult, with peak difficulty and no possibility for great skill checks when fully sick. I would say reduce repair speed, but I think the solution to gen times is adding a second mandatory objective, because let's be real: doing gens is bloody boring. There are also ways to maybe inflict actual delirium and mental degradation from severe sickness on Survivors, such as the vomit VFX obstructing your vision more and making chases more cumbersome, or muddying the Plague's Terror Radius at certain distances to confuse the Survivor unless they keep an eye out for the Killer. As for Corrupt, I still want it to be strong, but not nearly as easy as right now. I'd say that increasing the amount of time you need to hold it would be a good change so you can't just hold M2 for a fraction of a second and hit a Survivor from a distance away immediately.
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Tbh if you play stealth really well and carefully you'll manage to stay healthy for at least first 2-3 gens. After that either your teammates are potatoe and die so that you can try for hatch/doors or they are decent and they haven't wasted all the pallets/their hook stages yet so you still have more then good chance to survive even against her corrupt purge.
Remember it's surviors who give plague her downs with corrupt since they is really obvious notifications that use used it and surviovrs are supposed to be on a lookout for her. If they beiing out of position and getting chased by her during her corrupt it's only their fault for getting downed easily.
I personally love that Plague drastically changes how matches normally go and that you have to play differently against her and adjust. That's imao how all killers are supposed to be. Maybe this change will teach survivors that if she uses her fountain that you're supposed to hide/evade her for 1 minute and not boldy rush gens like usual. If they don't learn that well their fault for refusing to use her counterplay.
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This is true, I will admit. But I don't find it to be nearly as problematic as you make it out to be. If it is in a suboptimal position at first, it's entirely possible to simply play around it and bide your time until it IS in a position that doesn't require you to walk one thousand miles. And if you get close to a fountain during a chase? May God have mercy on that Survivor's soul, and anyone who may be nearby.
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This breaks what i said about not responding but do you listen? She needs to use a certain play style to be strong and what do you think that play style counters? Exhaustion perks!!! her power itself counters all healing perks!!! which is literally half or more of what survivors use in the meta!!!
any exhaustion perk and any healing perk is countered by simple using her power and blood echo and to apply more pressure to the gens use pgtw, to find them use bbq and infectious fright. if they cleanse your now an A tier killer since her corrupt purge is literally a stream of damage thats easy to land on survivors.
as i have said many times plague and any other killer can be good if you use a certain play style and or perk build. you SHOULD NOT only rely on the base kit to determine if the killer is good. otherwise all survivors should just not run any perks but they wont because that's ridiculous.
as for second chance perks unless you tunnel which i dont i will at most slug someone if they just got unhooked, than the only second chance perks that could make a difference would be unbreakable and maybe deliverance and they are not meta.
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Plague being less then C tier, lol
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After reading that, I completely agree with you and know that you understand what you are saying. From first reading it I thought of it being a nerf, but you balance it making it fun and fair for both sides. Obviously making it look like you aren't a rank 20000 survivor.
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You fail to understand that killer's are supposed to break survivor toolkits in some way. Some of them break or cut-off loops (Trapper, Nurse, Huntress), some break their ability to sense by terror radius (Myers, Ghost Face), yet others have incredible map mobility (Hillbilly, Hag, Oni)
Breaking stealth is also a thing, or have you forgotten that Doc pretty much DELETES STEALTH?
I prefer stealth myself, but I've learned to accept that sometimes I will be pulled outside my comfort zone by the doc and the plague, why haven't you?
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" She needs to use a certain play style to be strong and what do you think that play style counters? Exhaustion perks!!! her power itself counters all healing perks!!! which is literally half or more of what survivors use in the meta!!!"
So you just learn to play without all those Exhaustion and free healing Perks. That's what Survivors who are actually good do, and it's how Survivors who are good make Plague terrible. There's a difference between using the meta and relying on it. If you rely on it, you suck. If you use it, well that just makes you a winning-centric person.
"any exhaustion perk and any healing perk is countered by simple using her power and blood echo and to apply more pressure to the gens use pgtw, to find them use bbq and infectious fright."
See my above point of Survivors who are actually good not relying on healing and Exhaustion to do well. Once they learn how to loop, PGTW becomes ass because you won't be getting any hooks any time soon. BBQ has 50 counters and I'd rather run Tremors. Infectious is good, but again, if they can loop without Exhaustion reliance, you're boned.
"as for second chance perks unless you tunnel which i dont i will at most slug someone if they just got unhooked, than the only second chance perks that could make a difference would be unbreakable and maybe deliverance and they are not meta."
Unbreakable IS meta. What the hell are you on? Second chance items are useless against her? Borrowed Time? Adrenaline's speed boost? Decisive in literally any situation where the Survivors have pressure and if you don't pick that Survivor up, you're hurting yourself? The mere existence of safe windows and pallets?
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"You fail to understand that killer's are supposed to break survivor toolkits in some way. Some of them break or cut-off loops (Trapper, Nurse, Huntress), some break their ability to sense by terror radius (Myers, Ghost Face), yet others have incredible map mobility (Hillbilly, Hag, Oni)"
The difference is that those can all be outplayed in some way. If Trapper sets up a trap, you don't fall for it and figure out where he hasn't trapped, or you simply move around it. If it's a Nurse, you learn how to outmaneuver and outplay her. If it's a Huntress, you do the same. If it's stealth Killer, you either use your eyes, or you have Spine Chill equipped and their power doesn't exist anymore. If it's a high-map pressure Killer, you pound gens and loop hard enough that even such pressure will be strained.
Doc does not delete stealth. He counters it every now and again when his blast hits someone, but outside of that, stealthing a Doc is entirely possible. Plus, if you hate Doc enough, you can just bring Calm Spirit and bam, you've hard-countered his anti-stealth.
With Plague? You just can't heal or stealth at all. She literally deletes it. It's actually physically undoable. The only way to get it back is to give her Huntress 2.0, and then she can just rip it all away again whenever she's done with that little power trip. There's no outplaying Plague's anti-heal or anti-stealth. It cannot happen.
"I prefer stealth myself, but I've learned to accept that sometimes I will be pulled outside my comfort zone by the doc and the plague, why haven't you?"
I have accepted that. The difference is I actually enjoy being outplayed and challenged to do well with my playstyle rather than just "haha your build literally doesn't exist against me".
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Shifting all her addons that improve her Corrupt Purge into ones that add illnesses (status effects) to staying infected and broken would be a good start. This puts a hard cap on the strength of her Corrupt Purge but adding differing incentives to get survivors to cleanse more and changing her game play a little based on which illnesses (addons) she was using.
Obviously we also don't like killers being addon dependent to function properly but I still think this would be a net positive change. I do think at base though she should get a small 4 meter reduced TR per survivor fully infected and broken. This would make it a little more dangerous to stay infected without adding any "unfun" mechanics to it like just plain slower gen speeds.
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if encountering unbreakable is meta why is it not ran on everyone? i at most see it in every 2-3 games and it rarely works out, also than what is the meta to you? because good survivors still use exhaustion perks and even healing perks or items. Would you please stop being so ignorant and cherry picky, you yourself literally said that exhaustion perks are meta and are run constantly yet now you say that good survivors dont run the meta which is total BS and you know it. A survivor who is good will more than likely still run the meta wither you agree with that or not, and as i said before even if they are not running it, being one shot against plague who can easily find you will result in a shorter chase because getting a single hit is not that hard.
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I'm gonna say this before the plague mains get here.
HOW DARE YOU CRITICIZE MOMMY SHE BAE AS MCDONALD'S CHICKEN NUGGETS.
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"if encountering unbreakable is meta why is it not ran on everyone?"
It is for me. I see it at least once per game.
"because good survivors still use exhaustion perks and even healing perks or items. Would you please stop being so ignorant and cherry picky, you yourself literally said that exhaustion perks are meta and are run constantly yet now you say that good survivors dont run the meta which is total BS and you know it."
That's not what I said at ALL. I never said that good Survivors don't run the meta. I said they don't RELY on it. They don't NEED it. That won't stop them from running it in the slightest if they want to win, because, you know, it's the meta. If their meta gets messed with, sure, it may hinder them somewhat, but that doesn't screw them over like it does to Survivors who truly rely on it. There are still plenty of aspects of the Survivor's base kit that makes them entirely capable in the fields of chasing and doing gens that prevents good Survivors from needing the meta. The meta will only take these good, strong Survivors and make them even stronger. But even without the meta, if they're actually good at the game, congrats, you're in for a rough time.
"being one shot against plague who can easily find you will result in a shorter chase because getting a single hit is not that hard."
You know what's even less hard? Not getting hit in the first place.
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I'm not reading all of that 😂 can someone else shorten it for me and tell me what changes are coming for her.
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The change coming to her is that she now starts a trial with one pool of devotion already corrupted, similar to her Apple addons. I’m saying that this highlights the problems with Plague and how choosing between being sick or giving her Corrupt Purge is such a big issue, and that instead of just giving her free Corrupt because no one wants to cleanse, they should make it so that being sick does more bad things to Survivors, but Corrupt Purge gets pulled back, so that the choice between cleansing or not cleansing isn’t so obvious and Plague has something going for her either way.
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So if I'm understanding you correctly, because she does what she's designed to do, which is herd Survivors and eliminate their ability to effectively hide from her or work cooperatively (to an extent), you see her as terribly designed? Then, if her power isn't causing damage, it's useless? First, with the current set of perks available to Killers, especially new ruin, she's one nasty mama jama (or can be in the right hands). Second, if you think she's a weak killer, you've clearly not gone against a skilled Main. Either way, you're entitled to your opinions, even if they aren't well founded.
Sorry to be so blunt, but so few actually are able to utilize her to her fullest extent because they want a simple, easy to use power that doesn't take much strategy to work with. Survivors want to be able to play however they want with all killers, regardless of their power, and that's the whole reason WHY they made her the way they did. It was a purposeful intent to force such a decision on Survivors as another means of putting control into the Killers hands, which is the way it should be.
Simply put, it's not the Survivors that should determine the flow of the matches and their play styles, but the Killers. As a Survivor, it's your job to find ways to effectively work within the situation given to you to complete your objectives as dictated by the Killer you're playing against. Conversely, the Killer is given different characters with kits, perks, and build opportunities to maximize what they can against a team with unknown counter play variants that may or may not be effective in the current trial. That's the WHOLE POINT. That Adiris suppresses certain play styles was a conscious decision, and a good one. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it a terrible design. It does however make you sound very entitled.
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As i said long time ago... This game containt huge amount of complainers, who will complain about anything, even if it actually balanced or even WEAK... Sad part about this what devs actually listen to them.
Plague need an huge buff like "if gen is infected his progress start to decrease" like with new pepega ruin. But that will never happened.
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So I guess completely deleting a set of mechanics and play styles that are already incredibly weak and underused in exchange for having *literally no power power in a chase* is good game design for a very strong Killer with a lot of pressure?
“Simply put, it's not the Survivors that should determine the flow of the matches and their play styles, but the Killers. As a Survivor, it's your job to find ways to effectively work within the situation given to you to complete your objectives as dictated by the Killer you're playing against.”
The thing is, the best strategy of what to do against Plague is so obvious it hurts: Don’t cleanse. Because if you don’t cleanse, she doesn’t have a power. She has no chase, no mobility, just tracking that nobody cares about because looping is superior to stealth anyway. Countering Plague is extremely easy to understand and to do, and yet despite this, she’s still annoying no matter what.
Also, thinking new Ruin is good on a Killer with literally no mobility KEKW
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As a solo survivor, I can't stress enough how incredibly tense it is to go against a plague. This is because I am unable to communicate with my teammates and they all repeatedly cleanse in the fountains which just adds more power to her corrupt purge. I'm alone in those situations so I can't really request for them to stop cleansing or try and evade the killer.
Yes, cleansing is kind of forced upon you when playing survivor. But the more you cleanse the more power it adds to her base kit. The apple add on becoming part of her base kit just makes her incredibly strong and adds more pressure for the solo survivors compared to the SWF. I'm pretty sure the devs decreed that they were going to try and close the gap between solo players and SWF players, not draw them closer in a bad way.
P.S, I'm not an entitled survivor main if I come across that way, I play both sides and I agree with OP's post that the apple becoming part of Plague's base kit will make her incredibly strong. I'm not complaining because it affects all survivors, I'm defending how it is stressful enough for solo survivor's to go against a killer that forces you to cleanse yourself just to add more deadly power for the killer herself. The apple add on pushes that further for the solo players.
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- Dumb Survivors cleansing against Plague and willfully handing her a power doesn’t make her a good Killer. It just makes those Survivors really, really stupid.
- You're never forced to cleanse against Plague. One of the points of this post, and the issue most people have with Plague, is that cleansing is such a stupid option and not cleansing is superior in nearly every way because it denies Plague her entire power.
- We’re all aware that solo que is hell. Trust me, I’d know. But again, braindead Survivors being braindead doesn’t make a Killer good or strong—something that Plague is far from.
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For point no.2 I have to slightly disagree with; choosing not to cleanse slowly injures you overtime and allows her to get an insta-down. So if you choose to cleanse it adds more power for her. If you choose not to cleanse you can't heal (unless you cleanse o.o) and she eventually knocks you down (unless you bring Iron Will but that's a different story). So it's that part of her power which is the issue.
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- Iron Will doesn’t do anything against her because it doesn’t stop sickness noises. I complained about that in my original post.
- Just... loop? Being injured isn’t scary.
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Unfortunately looping isn't always the answer, as you have newer players who do not even know what looping is. It's not the same for everyone. Some new survivors will have trouble finding which areas to loop at, so without saying "git gud" maybe consider those who aren't as experienced will have a harder time counteracting Plague.
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If they are so inexperienced that they can’t loop, or can’t loop for any other reason, then “gitting gud” is literally the solution to their problem. Looping is a core mechanic of the game, and if you can’t loop, you can’t utilize a core mechanic of the game. The only reasonable solution is to figure out what the hell you're doing and, yes, to git gud.
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If that's the case then cleansing is a core mechanic of the Plague's power. If looping is a mechanic of the game then so is slugging and camping.
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The difference is, it’s not Plague who gets to choose when the Survivors cleanse. It’s the Survivors. And if they can loop, they have literally no reason to do so.
Slugging is a mechanic of the game. Maybe not a core one, but a mechanic nonetheless. That’s why the devs introduced Perks to both facilitate and to counter it, instead of just adjusting or removing the mechanic.
If the Killer wants to camp, then he can go right ahead. Instead of worrying about saving your mate in this COMPETITIVE SURVIVAL GAME you can instead hammer gens while the Killer waits for one person to die.
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Black Incense is definitely her strongest add-on
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I agree, Black Incense is her strongest addon... If you’re a bumbling moron who can’t track with what Plague has in her basekit.
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How is constantly showing aura's a bad thing?
The apples are not THAT good.
Seriously, Infectivity + Black Incense with PGTW, Thana, Dying Light and Corrupt Intervention.
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Infectious, Thrilling, Monitor, Corrupt.
The Perks do all the tracking for you and effectively remove the need for Black Incense if you have a brain. Then you can throw on Apples to become a discount Huntress that has more anti-loop than Huntress does.
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Meh, you have almost zero slowdown. Gens will fly.
Not sure why you are so aggressive tho
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- I guess Corrupt doesn’t exist, huh?
- Not like slowdown does anything, anyway. If it did, gens wouldn’t be an issue because you could just run Perks to shut that down. But guess what counters gen slowdown Perks? You guessed it: Doing gens!
- If you use your Corrupt well, you can get two or three downs before the Survivors get significant gen pressure.
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Corrupt does exist, but you can only chase one Survivor.
I've had excellent success with that build.
Unless they become immersed, which they usually do. I suppose that's where the tracking comes in, right?
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Yes, that’s where the constant irremovable coughing and vomiting comes in.
I’ve also had excellent success with a Legion build designed purely for pissing around and not giving one because no matter what you run on Legion you’re going to get your cheeks clapped. Not saying it’s a BAD build, just that there are better ones that don’t require an Ultra Rare addon.
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You really are viewing things from a very limited pov, aren't you? As it stands, stealth isn't weak at all. It simply requires skill. As does the Plague. To say she has no power in a chase is laughable at best. She can steer with her vomit, which can be made far more viable with her various speed add-ons, plus she's one of the fastest Killers in the mix. You seem to be laboring under the impression that 'mobility' is synonymous with having a power like Nurse or Billy, which tells me all I need to know about you perceptions and misconceptions here.
Plague is quite strong in a chase, especially with the right perks. Spirit Fury works wonders, especially paired with Zanshin Tactics and Cruel Limits/Nemesis. Infectious Fright is good for locating groups and pairs well with Blood echo and I'm all ears. New Ruin works well with Surveillance and Huntress' Lullaby. So right there are several builds with open space for another perk like BBQ or Nurses Calling, to name some of the meta. You very seriously underestimate playing pallet/vault mind games and playing Loopers at their own game.
If you're expecting Plague to be a fast game, then you're going to have a hard time. She's best as dividing and drawing out the game. Getting to start with a fountain corrupted can mean an early hook, and with an Ivory or Ebony Mori, it's going to give an enormous potential for early control. I would advise looking at builds more solidly, as you seem to have a narrow, one dimensional view of things.
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I'm sure this has already been pointed out because the thread is four pages long, but I'm not going to read every reply so I'll say it probably again: I like the upcoming Plague changes for one important reason - I play solo queue & I don't feel like I should be punished as a player because I get random teammates that don't know how to play against The Plague.
Sure, you shouldn't cleanse against her because that keeps her weak. But guess what? One clueless teammate & suddenly your entire team gets thrown under the bus.
So now due to her always being able to corrupt her blood, you don't get punished for having a bad teammates. She can always just get the projectile vomit to spew on you & hit you.
Which, yeah, it's a buff & will make her more annoying... but I prefer that over getting mad at my teammates & yelling "Why the Hell are you cleansing!" when playing solo queue...
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