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Red rank survivor perks - my statistics
Comments
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I dont think you realized the comedy of this situation.
Ruin was used by 80% of the killers, which means it was used in 80% games.
DS is used by roughly 45% surviviors, which means it is used in about 90% games
But yeah 46% is LoNg WaYs OfF 80%
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Your reward for hitting ruin checks was not regressing and improving your inherent ability to hit skill checks in general. It also added a slight challenge to doing gens outside holding M1. Changing ruin without addressing the reasons why it was so prevalent is pathetic.
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You're really good at that whole "take only snipit's of information to use to my advantage" thing.
80% of red ranks, 40% of ALL games.
Like if your not going to take the discussion seriously and look at the whole picture, why are you bothering to join the discussion anyways? Are you just trying to throw people off with misinformation? I never understand why I keep seeing people come into the forum and just defend survivor sides with lies. The reason i'm going into that part with you is because this isn't the first time i've seen you do this, and I see it a lot from several others.
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It was prevalent because people refused to learn how to play without it. Remember 1/5 of the games didn't even need ruin. To be fair to ruin though, one killer in my opinion needed it, Trapper. But every other killer either needed to do as your saying other survivors needed to do "git gud".
Also before you go, of course the entitled survivor main would say that, I am a killer main that consistently hit red ranks and I never even made the perk teachable.
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What? Both this stats and 80% ruin usage is from red rank games only. I dont understand your point.
Ruin was used in around 80% red rank games
DS is used in about 90% red rank games
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So then by the same logic. DS should be nerfed to the point of no return. Glad we agree.
Though all jokes aside, they don't have to nerf DS into the ground. Something as simple as DS deactivates if another survivor is hooked or goes into a locker is good enough, unless you're in dying state (in case the killer downs you off hook, then goes - downs and hooks someone else, then coming back to you). Litterally that one change would make the perk worlds more balanced, and I bet people will still run it nearly just as much.
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I think DS actually needs a buff, it doesnt prevent tunneling at all.
That said, you shouldnt EVER be able to use DS if you are NOT being tunneled.
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I hate it when I loop the killer so well when he tunnels me, my DS runs out lol
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You clearly don't understand how usage stats work. For a perk to show up in 80% of games as a killer is ridiculous, as there are currently 66 killer perks. That and each perk has only a 25% chance of being used. Now factoring in meta, you increase and decrease those chances, but they should never be increased to the point of being in 4 out of 5 games.
Now the problem is as a survivor, its no longer game based, because each perk has the chance to be used 4 times. Simply saying it shows up in 90% of games does not factor into the fact that it has a 4 times the number of chances to be picked. Once again, this doesn't include the increased chance of being picked because it is a meta perk.
Now once again, the ruin specific perk was compounded by the fact that it was increasingly used to considerably balance the games in the killers favor, often being paired with perks such as Pop, Dying Light, Sloppy or thanatophobia.
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I think the timer should be paused while in a chase, thats the buff I would accept.
But obviously only if disabling conditions get added
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Well lets see what I understood wrong I guess...
There was 80% chance of Ruin being in killers loadout, this means killer had 100% chance of having 3 perks that are NOT Ruin (3 out of 65) and 20% (100-80)% chance of NOT having Ruin even in the 4th slot.
So yeah, 80% killers using Ruin means 80% games are with Ruin.
No idea what the 25% is supposed to mean, but yeah, Ruin was used too much.
Well yes, thats what I said, 46% surviviors using DS does NOT mean DS appears in 46% games. Its you who is wrong, the 90% does factor PRECISELY the fact that there are 4 surviviors, because 1-(1-0.46)^4=~0.91
So chance of AT LEAST 1 DS appearing in a game is around 91%.
46% usahe rate means that it is most likely to find 2 DSes in one game, this means that you have that you have to be prepared for DS EVERY game if you want to win.
And how DS is not abused in surviviors favour? It gives you 60 seconds of doing gens uninterrupted, and gives you increased chance to escape when caught. Not to mention you can force the stun by going to a locker. And the stun can break the whole momentum of the game, break pressure and allow for free escapes in the endgame. Surviviors with DS active often unhook others, because they know they have a second chance.
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But look at it this way, if you are looping the killer longer than 60 seconds, that's 40 more seconds than you needed to already. Pausing the timer would only break the perk further.
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My point was you cant compare a perk showing up in a game at the same level as it does for a killer. Survivor perks can show up 4 times per match where killer perks can show up only once per match.
So you have to compare how many survivors run that perk perk game, which is 46%, meaning you are like to have 1-2 survivors bring DS, however if DS usage was at say 60-70% than yes, I would say it should be treated like ruin. But its not. You're arguments seem like since it shows up 1-2 times per game when it has 4 different chances to show up that it should be treated like ruin.
Also, if you are getting DS a lot, you need to look at your play style, for example, tonight I played 5 games, every game had 1-2 DS users except the last one. I got a 4k on every game and never once Saw DS. I didn't tunnel (while one guy called a cross the match hatchet as tunneling) nor did I camp hooks. The last game of the night had no DS users and guess what 2 people got out.
The meta survivor perks are only an issue if you let them be an issue or a survivor forces it to be an issue. For example, a survivor was unhooked and saw me coming for the rescuer... He literally blocked my path and forced me to hit him, I still chose to chase the other person and still got a 4k that.
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If the killer is REALLY tunneling you, then you should be able to DS him after a chase no matter how long it was.
Otherwise people would let themselves get caught few seconds before the timer runs out, and that would be dumb.
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If the killer is REALLY tunneling you, then you should be able to DS him after a chase no matter how long it was.
Otherwise people would let themselves get caught few seconds before the timer runs out, and that would be dumb.
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That's the dumbest thing I ever heard.
If you can loop the Killer for more than double the time you need to, you don't need an extension perk. Tunneling will only get the killer to lose, and if the survivor is good then they will pip/black pip off Lightbringer, Unbroken, and Evader alone.
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This point is based on an assumption that meta killer perks are 4 times stronger than meta survivior perks, and imo its wrong. The only strong "second chance" perk killer has is NOED, and its still isnt as strong as DS, and is not used as much.
No, you are interpreting this wrongly again. 46% isage rate means that in ~40% of the games there will be 2 DSes, in ~22% games there will be 1 DS and in ~22% games there will be 3 DSes. So no, most of the time (~84%) there will be 1-3 DSes, not 1-2.
Like I said before, DS can be very easily abused by good players, for example they unhook others with DS active, do gens, open exit gates, etc and you cant stop them from doing that because Unbreakable, Flip Flop, Tentacity + sound bug, SWF on comms and We'll make it. Slugging should be something killer does to apply more pressure, not be cause he is forced to do so because of a perk.
DS can be countered, bit it requires going out of your way and changing your playstyle to slugging, and even that can be countered. The ONLY REAL COUNTER TO DS IS TUNNELING EARLY to activate it. "Anti tunneling perk" my ass
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Thats the point of DS as an anti tunneling perk. Making sure killer cant win by tunneling.
Obviously that can only ever work after we add deactivation conditions:
- You are the last not dead/hooked/slugged survivior
- You started performing an action (unhooking, gens, gates, healing, cleansing, etc.), (Mending, vaulting, and the others dont count)
- You got caught in a Bear Trap
- Another DS activated
- 2 other people got downed (-30s per down)
In all conditions above, DS gets disabled as if the timer has ran out.
As for the buff, other than "timer stopped while in a chase" mentioned above, I would also remove the skillcheck, its pointless imo.
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The killer can't win by tunneling. If you need a crutch perk to loop well, then i'm sorry to say but you need to get better at the game. The point of the perk is to give you a chance at a chase if the Killer "tunnels you off hook", because in most cases you don't have time to go from a hook to a nearby jungle gym, building, TL loop, safe house, or safe loop.
A chase is supposed to only last aproximately 20 seconds VS a good killer, if you are in chase longer than that - you did well. With 2 hooks, and how many heals/hits you get, stacking all those chases together you can max Evader in just three of those 20 second chases. Decisive Strike is 60 seconds that is 3x longer than a normal chase. If you are running out of DS before the chase even ends then you already maxed, or near maxed the evader emblem. Then if you unhooked twice / healed twice that match you are going to single pip to red ranks even if you die (depending how long you were in the match for).
Pausing the timer just makes chasing any survivor off hook to be impossible, so then Survivors can't be punished for making mistakes like unsafe saves, immeditatly jumping on objectives right off coming off hook (instead of ensuring your safe first), or running at dangerous areas (areas without pallets, or directly into the killer). Which isn't fair at all, you shouldn't be compesated for your mistakes. It would be far too easy to exploit.
The fact of the matter, DS in it's current state is too powerful, that's why you see it often in high rank games (statistically proven). Also it's current state is easy to exploit for a 60 second immunity paired with an exhaustion perk.
However adding conditions if the Killer performs an action that proves he's not tunneling is a small change, that imo balances out the perk. Umbra is where I heard the idea that it just deactivates when the Killer hooks another survivor, and it doesn't deactivate if you are in dying state (in case a survivor went for an unsafe save and you get downed off hook immediatly, at least then you have a chanse if the Killer picks you up, or another survivor comes to save you - which they should be. Honestly Borrowed Time is better imo).
But by math and statistic's alone there is no reason - at all. Why you would pause a 60 second immunity timer because you get chased off hook. Tunneling is rarely ever strong, because the only way tunneling gets you anywhere in a match is if the survivors are not doing their objectives.
I agree though the skill check is dumb, and I would like it removed, but I do understand why it's there. A very difficult skill check pushes the less experienced players from being able to utilize the perk as well as experienced players do - like the old Hex: Ruin perk was giving new players a difficult time unless they could more often get great skill checks.
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I think real tunneling should be always punished, bit thats just my opinion.
"Pausing the timer just makes chasing any survivor off hook to be
impossible, so then Survivors can't be punished for making mistakes like
unsafe saves, immeditatly jumping on objectives right off coming off
hook (instead of ensuring your safe first)"
This is not true at all, in my proposed change I clearly stated that performing any action (except things like mending) would cause DS to deactivate, to prevent precisely this.
"running at dangerous areas (areas without pallets, or directly into the
killer). Which isn't fair at all, you shouldn't be compesated for your
mistakes. It would be far too easy to exploit."
I dont think so. If survivior is wasting time Tbagging, making noise or starting chase, then let him do it. As long he is not doing his job, I dont care. Killers should also think a bit, not just charge like a madman because someone provokes them with stupid plays or flashlight clicking.
IMO DS is so strong only because it can be used even if killer is not tunneling. You can do gens, unhook, heal, everything, and DS still works. If it disabled under conditions I explained above, then it would be ok
I dont think if it matters that its strong, what matters is that it is unfun for survivior and innefficient for the killer. In short, intentional tunneling is toxic. I say "intentional" because some people say that if you grab someone of a gen or a Trap then its tunneling lol.
If they added disable conditions I mentioned, then I couldnt care less if DS had skillcheck or not, just doesnt matter to me.
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No. You're whole idea just makes DS stronger for exactly what it's being abused for. I am not going to go into pharagraphs to explain that to you again. The best method is to just nerf it to deactivate when the Killer directly plays away from tunneling, and for the most part it would be balanced. It doesn't need to be buffed.
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