Why DS feels unfair for killers and not for survivors.
I think i can explain this.
Yes many people abuse this perk but thats not the topic.
So You hook someone and go chase another survivor. You need 20 seconds to find someone and 50 to down them.
At this point you were in a chase, focused and maybe didnt pay attention to the hooked survivor:
he got saved by his mates after 50 seconds because they finished a gen or something.
however you as the killer come back after 70 seconds+ 10 because you needed to get there too (wanted to kick a gen or whatever)
Now you encounter the still injured survivor who wants to go to a save place and heal. remember its 80 secons since you hooked them. For the survivor its just 30 seconds off hook.
So you will have a "oh come one I tunneled?" moment and the survivor will have a "Dude let me heal and stop tunneling" moment.
You cant blame the killer, he has to look at sooooo many things during a game. Where are they? how far is the gen progress. Who did i hook 2 minutes ago.
So This thread is not about people who abuse DS ( get unhooked and get on a gen injured and jump into a locker when the killer approaches)
Its about what you could do to improve the gameplay in situations like this.
In this example its not the survivors OR the killers fault he got tunneled, its the mates fault bc they didnt rescue when it was possible but finished gens instead.
--> killer feels genrushed AND unfairly treaten because he didnt tunnel from his point of view
Comments
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If you are sitting on a gen for 50 seconds you are not finishing it you are simply doing a gen and dont care about unhooking.
Also what you are describing is not tunneling. They just happened to be there half a minute later.
Tunneling would more of a semi camping person gets unhooked and killers goes for that person by either ignoring everything else or semi ignoring (hitting you so you go away).
You could change DS to take situations like that into the account, but it would need to have access to alot of data and it would need keep track of some things like when you got unhooked, is someone else unhooked, are you being chased after being unhooked, etc.
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I dont say its tunneling, but DS is a anti tunnel perk and the survivor in this situation feels like being tunneled by the killer.
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While yes, but we cant start using feelings vs fact arguement. I feel like I should escape every game. Are you going to nerf killer for me to achieve this goal? No that would be ridiculous.
What I want is for DS to be a true anti tunnel. Your scenario is an unfortunate event that lead to someone feeling cheated/tunneled. My scenario shows unfortunately common thing that feels like tunneling because it is tunneling.
Besides if a killer really has been gone for 30 seconds since unhook the person who unhooked him most likely would heal him since you didnt come back to the hook right away. (Also they had enough time to heal even if they hesitated for 10s.)
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The thing is devs never said it is strictly an anti-tunnel perk.
Many people are so hung up on this, when they specifically explained how it is that, but that if you get found later on (after being unhooked and not being tunneled) it will come down to a strategy.
DS favors the lore that is literally grabbing a knife and stabbing the killer because the perk is a Laurie perk. Michael never said "Let me make sure I don't tunnel her". It was her stabbing him by any means necessary. I know this doesn't address how people think the perk it is strong, but considering how it worked before it seems fair.
You are never truly going to stop killers from tunneling because part of their job as killer IS tunneling even if every once in a while.
I would be happy if they just took away the condition and made it so that if you run a killer for so many seconds you can use it then because then at least that means that the killer WAS actually tunneling. I can't tell you how many times I've had killers tunnel and gens pop and they still don't care.
Post edited by Johnny_XMan on2 -
Michael tunneled Laurie the whole damn movie.
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DS should be a wire coat hanger XD
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Honestly no game should have more then one ds go off and ds should not activate during egc. I don't run ds because I feel I have to go out of my way to put it to any sort of use and seems pretty scummy but I will hop in a locker to fake I have it to get my inner strength heals.
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DS is unfair to killer if survivor choose to use it as a weapon against killer, instead of a protection.
I got a lot of matches, Survivor just got unhook, I chase the rescuer and not tunneling, but instead of stay away and heal up, that survivor just following me, teabag me and clicky clicky flashlight cause he know he got DS make him having god mode for 1 minute.
And guess what, when I choose to chase him, he immediately go to god loop + locker to make me eat the DS.
DS is to punish killer that tunnel, but now killer force to eat DS even they doesnt want to tunnel, something is really wrong here.
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Ah so Latency... dang Latency making the killers POV not match with the Survivors.
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No.
It was your choice to chase. No-one forced you to chase that survivor.
Teabagging and flashlight clicking have no effect to the killer so don't let it effect your judgement, this is how players/killers lose games.
Also, think of it this way. If that survivor is chasing after you doing those things while your chasing another, that is two players not on a generator.
You also have the option to slug which is a very effective tool.
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I use DS for protection in solo q - not only from the the killer, but from other survivors making dumb a-- plays at my expense.
It also gives me a chance to play the game when I happen to be the unlucky one the killer found first - instead of being chased, put on a timeout on the hook, get saved, chased again, put on another time out, repeat til dead. I don't get any points or emblems hanging on a hook nor for providing other survivors altruism.
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Mikey is the OG tunneler. Change my mind.
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English hard.
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I play 70% Survivor and 30% Killer (probably more Killer lately) and I like when they have DS on, or I would say it doesn't bother me. Why? Because a good match as a Killer does NOT need to be a 4K... Secondly, I know I will see them again and put them righ back on the hook. I use to use it as Survivor but not much anymore unless I'm drinking. It's pretty fair as it is I'd say, hell I think the current Meta is pretty fair. People keep complaining and they eventually change things and it continues to make the game get buggier.
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Yet she didn't drop a single pallet...I call hacks.
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enough with the DS complaints already. DS needs a buff if anything. It takes up a perk slot and it only works once. It should work EVERY time you get off a hook in my opinion. Maybe shorten the duration it’s active for, but give more uses. Every time off the hook. You have to think about it from the perspective of the survivor that just got off the hook he wants to play again yes? How many times do people have to tell you there needs to be ways to keep the game going for everyone. They just hit toolboxes really hard and tbh this game is more frustrating for survivors dealing with laggy hits from killers, unfair downs. Rehooks. All kinds of crap. So you complaining about DS is the least of anyone’s problems. It should b a stronger perk!
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I think the duration should be halved or even cut to 20s, buut have the duration not run down while in chase. This keeps it lasting forever while you're truly being tunneled, but if you try to do sneaky stuff like follow the killer like you're immune it won't work.
As a player who plays killer when solo and survivor in a 2man, I hate people who abuse perks in this game, and DS locker is cancer.
Another change could be to make ds disable when you heal/do a gen/get in a locker. If you have the time to do these then you ain't being tunneled.
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its a great perk for anti tunneling. but its the worst feeling when youre the killer
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I don't know why so many killers give DS such a power, it's not that bad of a perk, instead of pissing over the idea someone might have DS, just eat it early game.
Exceptions being if it would ruin your obsession based build (STBFL, PWYF, etc.)
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Stop gravedigging.
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wdym
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Everything you just said is correct. I have no observations or arguments, something extremely rare mind you. This is just true, the end.
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The fact that you can literally sit on a gen for 60seconds with DS is a problem
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Why is DS unfair :
Let me run at the killer because I am invincible
I'll just do this gen next to the hook because killer can't pick me up anyways and will only loose time downing me
Let me body block for my rescuer without any consequence
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If old moris were said to be an anti bully perk would that make them ok? No.
just because of what they said and didn't doesn't justify your point.
Using lore to justify ######### balance is also not a defense, same with hatch, I mean the entiity is all powerful so why can myers kill without an offering? why don't we just add more hook stages cuz it's lore. It's lore.
Lore is just an ugly buzzword that's irrelevant to any disscussion of game balance.
I agree you can never stop tunneling it is SOMETIMES a necessity DS should prevent malicious tunneling not tunneling. You literally just said they have to do it but I'm defending the punishment of a necessity and pretty much - as much of a meme it is - telling survivors he tunneled, he's in the wrong, harrass him at endgame.
If I'm reading your idea right, correct me if I'm wrong would make it like stake out but in chase for the same effect
I'm gonna say this as nice as possible:
That has got to be one of the stupidest idea's I've ever heard.
So first this would just make it so that it punishes bad killers who take long chases and be wasted on bad survivors who don't last in chase.
Secondly, It would basically allow a free escape at the end of the match, all 4 people would have their DS up and no matter who the killer downs, they basically lose.
Thirdly, it still has the same second chance bulllshit, it still allows a free escape for nothing, it rewards the survivor for playing like a babboon and dashing towards the killer.
Most importantly however, IT DOESN'T EVEN PUNISH TUNNELING, it just punishes the killer for playing the game, the only reason it would ever punish tunneling is by coincidence because in essence tunneling is just chasing a player.
I don't mean a personal attack on your idea's and person but I just can't stand for what you said.
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So insteasd of creating new threads about DS, they are re using old ones lol
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I mean if you let someone hitting ctrl and m2 make you chase them and then you get mad cuz you got hit with DS you're the one to blame not him. He tried to get your attention and you fell for it.
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There're too many variables to take into consideration to make a change on DS
Actual Tunneling
Survivor Farming
And DS Baiting
So adding conditions to DS might break the perk... even taking away 15 seconds from it might make it terrible
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Have it deactivate when they touch a gen. That alone will make it much more fair.
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Nice, my thread got revived XD
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Why you bringing moris into the picture? They aren't even comparable to DS at all. Yes I justify my stance on DS partly based on what the devs have said because they are the ones designing the perk. They can't possibly nit-pick every little scenario in which DS could be more balanced to 'appease' killers who don't like it... just as with other things that need balanced on the killer side.
I take no offense whatsoever, but also don't take offense when I point out that you have a biased opinion when you claim "Killer is just playing the game" when tunneling is brought into ideas ... All because you feel an idea could be interpreted different by the game itself. When we both know that excuse has been overused by players.
I merely used being chased as a form of "Do this and get rewarded with this". I am obviously aware that someone running and throwing every pallet on the map wouldn't necessarily mean that they are good in a chase. However, there is something to be said about the people who didn't throw a pallet and are good in a chase to the point the killer will tunnel them out of the game. Regardless of how stupid you think it sounds, that is fact. The idea could always be adjusted accordingly, that is just where I was coming from when I thought of it.
Tunneling is part of the game. The problem is that when you combine it with other built-in mechanics, it becomes problematic. The devs have incorportared "perks" to counter mechanics that come with VERY little downside to the killer.
Also, this:
"Secondly, It would basically allow a free escape at the end of the match, all 4 people would have their DS up and no matter who the killer downs, they basically lose."
is one scenario. Some people aren't chased as much as others. That is why roles exist in this game. One person gets chased, the others do gens. You are assuming that all 4 people would be chased for a rather long time. Again, I never mentioned numbers or that this was some "final" form of my idea.
Let me ask you this, how would YOU punish tunneling? Because even the current DS (which doesn't sound like you support it) isn't doing a good job as it is. I legit wanna know, how you personally would punish tunneling within the game. I am not talking about take away points blah blah blah, I wanna know in-game action that stops a killer from seeking the one survivor throughout most of the game.
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