Perfect Example of the Hypocritical Way People View DBD
Just finished this match:
- All 5 gens done
- No survivors dead as last gen done
- 1 survivor hooked shortly after last gen
- Killer closes hatch
- Manage to get gate open with killer coming up on me quick
- Turn to run out - Bloodwarden - that sucks - but oh well - I get hooked
- 1 of remaining 2 survivors has key and they both escape through hatch
All this is fine. Bloodwarden is part of the game and it caught me. Keys are part of the game and 2 survivors escaped because of it.
Killer sends message to all the survivors. We're all trash for using a key. Ironically I got the message despite not escaping. Regardless..... he says he's tired of seeing keys give bad survivors a second chance to escape.
Survivors that escaped through hatch responded telling killer keys are part of the game and to get over it. They also added they are tired of seeing bloodwarden give bad killers a second chance to get extra kills.
The killer responds by telling them there is a difference because bloodwarden is fair and keys aren't fair.
It went on for awhile and I just watched without a response.
The fact is both things are legit parts of the game.
Here's the thing... they both made a valid point, and they both made an invalid point.
Valid points: A) 2 survivors may very well not have escaped without using a key, B) killer may have ended up with only one kill had he not had bloodwarden.
Invalid hypocritical points (made by both): A) It's totally fair that my side has a second chance perk and I should be able to use it. B) It's completely unfair that your side has a second chance perk and you shouldn't be able to use it.
The killer had an ace up his sleeve with bloodwarden. He managed to get one extra kill with it and likely would have gotten more if someone hadn't had a key. Kudos to him. Well played. Absolutely zero wrong with utilizing a legal effect to aid you. Tip of the hat to the killer.
Two survivors may not have escaped otherwise had they not had their own get out of jail free card by one of them utilizing a key. Once again. Good play. They pulled out an improbable victory. Nothing wrong with them using a legal item to aid them.
To reiterate, we can debate all day long whether this perk or that item or whatever should be part of the game. The bottom line is it doesn't matter what we think about something if it is part of the game. If it's part of the game it is perfectly acceptable to utilize it. However, to presume to tell someone they shouldn't be allowed to utilize every tool at their disposal, but you should is just flat hypocritical.
Comments
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I agree that people shouldn't get mad at someone else for simply using tools in the game to play the game, but I think we can all agree that Keys are much stronger than an avoidable, visible, one time use perk that prevents Escape through a Gate for 60 seconds.
Just like Moris are stronger than Adrenaline or Decisive Strike.
You shouldn't get mad at the people using strong things; just accept that, at least for now, strong things are in the game and that people can use them to their advantage.
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They'd of escaped regardless if they realized it was blood warden... It's a terrible perk. Literally all you got to do is just survive for a little longer. If it's not paired with NOED then that's almost never difficult to pull of. Some people will complain no matter what. When I had to do the key challenge I opened both gates and used my key on the hatch. If I wanted to go out the gate I could've done so. The gate wasn't too far away from the hatch so even if I got hit I could've made it out no matter what. Still the killer using ebony mori (He only caught one person so he mori'd them on the hatch lol...) moans about a key being used that I didn't need to begin with. A key that had no aura reading add ons and replaced me bringing in a flashlight, toolbox, or med kit. A key that has fairly high requirements if everyone doesn't die.
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I agree that both are second chance features of the game, but I would argue against it being wholly balanced for the following reasons:
- Gen speeds/pressure. We all recognize that there's an issue. Survivors aren't required to do enough to escape. A competent group of survivors can escape with 3/4 every time. Easy. Killers have to struggle and fight for every inch, so it's frustrating to see survivors have a final second chance to escape after the killer did everything in their power to prevent it. Killers have to juggle more than survivors do, and they have to plan much further ahead than survivors. The furthest survivors have to plan ahead is to avoid a possible 3-gen.
- Second chance opportunities for survivors. Survivors have a ton of second chance opportunities. Between Decisive Strike, Borrowed Time, Deliverance, Adrenaline, and Unbreakable. Not to mention Lithe, Dead Hard, Balanced Landing, and Sprint Burst (Head On may be exhaustion, but I wouldn't consider it second chance). Oh, AND Styptic Agent, Anti-Haemorrhagic Syringe, and Keys.
- In contrast, Killers have the following second chance perks: Devour Hope (if it isn't broken), Blood Warden (if you can activate it), Remember Me (if you get your stacks and the survivors aren't coordinated), NOED (if it isn't broken). Moris are available, too, but unless you're lucky, they only affect one survivor; whereas, a key can provide an out for everyone.
The disparity is real. Sure, killers have instadowns, but while they're using up time chasing and downing a survivor, gens are being done. And with nine possible second chance perks across four survivors PLUS second chance items or add-ons vs. the killer's four? Yeah, taking keys out of the game wouldn't be the worst thing to happen to survivors.
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Okay... I had a reply on here, but it disappeared.
Basically, gen speeds are too fast/survivors don't have enough objectives. Survivors can each slot 4 second chance perks. That's 16 second chances for the killer to deal with, and they have nine to choose from. The killer gets 4 second chance perks to choose from, and they're racing against the clock.
Killers may have access to moris, but survivors can get keys, styptic, and the syringe.
With the amount that a killer has to do in a single trial, that's too much.
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A Key is a lot more versatile than Blood Warden.
Blood Warden activates if you hook a survivor after someone opens an exit gate, and most people 99 the exit gates.
1 survivor died and there's 1 gen left? The killer can say goodbye to their 3-gen strat because 3 survivors can get out for free now.
Killed 3 survivors and closed hatch? The last survivor gets out for free now, even if they were just crouching around the edge of the map the entire game.
Every gen completed? You already lost because it doesn't matter how well you watch the exit gates if they find the hatch. Even outside of SWF, a solo survivor can get your attention only to lead you to the hatch and escape while the others open the gates.
Keys and Moris need reworks. They give you an early win after only partially doing your objective.
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"Killers may have access to moris, but survivors can get keys, styptic, and the syringe." Keys are good, but styptic and the syringe are basically trash since the rework.
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I really really agree and I often try to point similar things out. Complete waste of time to blame players for issues with stuff like map or general game design. It's in the game and not specifically "outlawed", so it's just scrub mentality to blame players for it.
I'd love to see changes to keys, moris and other things, but even if they might annoy me it makes no sense to start calling players "cheap", "tryhard" or any other common insults over it. They're just using something in the game. And there's plenty of hypocrisy for sure, some specific ones I see is when people complain about nerfs to "their side" and say nerfs to "the other side" are just "making it how it was supposed to be in the first place" which is... not how it works at all 😄
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Syringe, maybe, but styptic is even better than before now
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Regardless of your opinions on those add-ons, the sheer amount of survivor second chance perks clearly skews the game in the survivors' favor. They have nine to choose from at any give time, and every survivor can run four of them. A killer who doesn't care about slowing down gens or downing survivor can run four. That's sixteen second chances against four situational second chances (especially hex perks and blood warden).
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I'd rather have an instaheal to full health than 8 seconds of protection from being downed. I do have a question though about that. Awhile back I had this add on and I had BT. I had the gate opened and this hag was hard camping the hooked survivor literally right at the gate. I tried for the unhook but got hit. If I applied the styptic and tried for the unhook could I still be grabbed or would the 8 second protect me, because if it would protect me I could have unhooked (with BT) and we could have both easily ran out.
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Protects you from being downed with a hit, but you can still get grabbed just like a healthy survivor could. That's different from being downed.
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I don't typically run any second chance perks--no DS (I did run it all the time before it got broken often with comic results...like being downed right inside the gate and BOOM DS and away I went...hilarious), no BT, no adrenaline. I run fixated (formerly ran UE), Inner strength+detective's hunch (over self-care), and BT. Plenty of overpowered perks that give killers an advantage too--BBQ, NOED, Devour Hope. In my games (Purple Rank) I rarely see a match where we all leave. The game is only slanted toward survivors if you think killers should get a 4k every time and if you a killer main you probably do believe that. "Oh no someone escaped...the game is so unbalanced."
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To those debating the merits of certain perks.... Again, we all have our opinions about certain things in the game. We may feel this perk, that perk, or this item, that item or whatever shouldn't be in the game. We may think a certain perk is too strong, too weak, or just right. Those are discussion worth having. They are discussions you see frequently on these forums. However, I intentionally didn't bring those things into it though because that is irrelevant to the point I was making. My 2 points were:
1) Someone utilizing a tool they have available doesn't make them a trash player because you personally don't like it.
2) The fact you don't like a particular tool someone uses doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to use it.
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So probably was wise to leave at that point. Thanks.
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Hmm I'd say that the way the killer reacted was childish but I'd also say the that bloodwarden is a situational that requires proper timing and some luck to use where as a key is just an item you brought in with the only limiting factor you have is finding the hatch. So I'd say the killer has more of an argument, but I also think that keys should be removed from the game same with moris which are equally if not more op then keys.
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really dont get why people dislike keys.
Like whatever, you used your key, you got yourself a cheap way out, good for you.
I mean it does get annoying when one survivor specifically basically just let everyone else do the work while they sit on the hatch with a key, gesture a bit and then jump in, nothing fun about players basically sabotaging the game for their side but other then that...who cares? you got some bloodpoints, move on.
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"I don't run any second chance Perk-- no DS, no BT"
"I run [...] BT"
:thinking:
Also I like how in the same list as NOED there is a Perk mainly used for bonus BPs and a Hex Perk that goes down in a single totem cleanse and requires a lot of work before doing much.
May I ask what is your opinion on Pop Goes the Weasel? Does it belong in that list?
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