A possible fix to 99ing exit gates
I see a lot of people complain about 99ing exit gates and survivors avoiding the EGC entirely. I had an idea about how to change the gates to be a bit more fair to everyone.
- When a gate is between 0 - 95%, you start adding charges to the gate immediately upon pressing the action button.
- When a gate is between 95 - 100%, the gate only gets charges after a longer version of the pulling down the lever animation plays.
- The animation does not play if you are already holding the switch down as it enters 95%.
- When at least 2 survivors on your team are dead, this animation is removed and you immediately add charges like before.
The exact numbers are not final, maybe the animation should start at 90% instead of 95% or maybe only 1 survivor on your team needs to be dead to remove the penalty, but those are besides the point. The point is that you can still get gates very close to 99%, but if the killer was chasing someone to the gates then the survivor would suffer a penalty to opening them that could get them killed. As a result of this, 99ing gates would be more of a tradeoff instead of the survivor getting all the benefits of a open gate and none of the downsides.
What do you think of my idea? I really appreciate any feedback.
Comments
-
maybe the progress should regress to 90% if you don't finish it..? That might be a easier fix.
26 -
There's nothing to fix.
49 -
Or you can do like I do and immediately open the exit gate. If you're able to chase and down someone then they will be rushed for time. If they make it out then oh well there's always next game.
As a Killer you must do your best to retain control at all times. Don't let the exit gate be one more thing they bully us on.
4 -
Yeah. I figured regression was better. Hell make a new killer perk lol
2 -
Why you want them to escape? In that case just go and open gates yourself. And they wont avoid EGC!
2 -
I just don't think this issue ranks high in what killer are actually concerned about. 99'd gates are annoying but thats pretty much it.
0 -
Just reduce the overall time to open the gate by the length of the animation to pull the switch down, and make that animation not add charges (It doesn't make sense to be making progress without having the switch in place anyways). Done and over with.
0 -
The issue with that sort of thing is that sometimes during the endgame you have a survivor hooked that you have to stay near or else the rest of the team will unhook them then bodyblock you from hitting the injured survivor all the way to the exit gate.
0 -
No, it's a legit tactic for survivors.
Nothing to fix.
8 -
I really don't see the point in putting an exit gate at 99% anyway. The extra time doesn't seem needed to me and Blood Warden, in my experience, is rare. 99% gates have got me killed more times than they have kept me alive.
1 -
EGC should start as soon as the last gen is done plain and simple.
6 -
WHY?? YOU CAN JUST FREAKING OPEN
possible fix to survivors hiding in lockers: The locker teleports into the killer
possible fix to chests color, like why?
5 -
I think regression is the key but not all the way. It has 3 lights so lets make use of it.
Say you open a gate long enough for 1 light to turn on and you have to leave. The progress goes down to at least 30%. 2 lights is 60%. 3 lights is 90%. Either way they can't just walk up to it, tap it and it opens. Blood Warden would probably get a rise in use. Always hilarious when they tea bag at the exit gates before they realize it's active.
4 -
just open the gate yourself if you dont want it 99'd. Killers get BP for doing it anyway.
0 -
I agree with this guy. Let's cut the bullshit... 3 mins is PLENTY of time to find the gate if your not screwing off and actually playing. Not to mention everytime someone is downed or hooked, it practically pauses...
1 -
If you camp him he s going to die eventually? you cant wait?
0 -
To play devil's advocate here, what are you aiming to fix with this? The EGC isn't made to give you more kills or force people to leave while there's still things to be done (saves, etc.), and if they do refuse to leave, you can always open the gate to force them out yourself.
27 -
I'd settle for a longer start-up animation. They want to play games, they can suffer the consequences of it.
1 -
TIME = pressure.
Always. It's one of the longest complaints of killer stress due to having little control of gen time and why gen rush is a term.
EGC loses it points since it's the ONE time killer is not under pressure from time but survivors are, They have absolute control of time since they may choose when a gen is or is not done and have multiple gens to make this choice from. The only time this is not so is when they 3 gen themselves.
EGC SHOULD pressure survivors weither it MEANT to or not. You know, actually put survivors in a scary scenario instead of wasting time with endless loops for once because if they do in EGC they will die. Killers opening gates just concedes the game. Unless a killer has NOED or they are very lucky enough to get a survivor with two hits and they have blood warden.
Personally I think EGC should just activate once gens are done .The game is over. Some may argue.
"But Flatskull when the gens are down some people may still need to be unhooked"
You can see when people are down, Injured and being hooked. If a survivor finishes a gen while another survivor is any of these stats this is a issue they force on themselves. As a survivor you control when the match ends and the end phase begins. EGC should just as much be a punishment for mindlessly rushing to the finish in spite of your sorroundings as a punishment for lingering at the exit gate indefinately.
EGC COULD of fixed the ever-I now have nothing to do as killer so I guess I'll prox camp this one secured hook or hatch hunt- but because in its current state it only limits the amount of time survivors can spend tea bagging at the exit gate. What a waste of a cool mechanic and potential switch of roles from the killer being pressured by gen time to survivors being pressured by game time and an interesting, thrilling climax to a game.
EGC should just activated when gens are done...some may argue that this can lead to the killer just patrolling doors until the timer is out and they are right. The doors should perhaps spawn with a certain distance away from each other every time, or more distance, if they already do.
Now as killer I shouldn't camp. If I intercept a correct door while someone is off hooking I can actually prevent an escape and frag people enough that the end game could potentially get me more time out kills. But as is, I have no reason to NOT stay near the hook since 99% is as good as an open gate and open gates are pretty much safe zones.
Why even have EGC if it just essentially gets meta-gamed from even happening. It's would be like having hatch spawn and the killer can pre-emptively lock it from opening any circumstance when they run across it at 1 gen.
3 -
I'd say the issue is being able to counter/avoid both Blood Warden and EGC simultaneously without any thinking or choice.
Commonly nerfed things are "benefit without a price"... Not opening a 99ed gate until it's safe to do so, counters Blood Warden. It also negates any pressure added by EGC (which slows down if someone is downed anyways)
In my opinion. If hooking someone at any point after the last gen enabled Blood Warden, then it activates upon exit gate opening... This would fix 99ing without changing 99ing. Survivors can still reap the benefits of it. But now they choose between:
"Open the gates asap to counter a POTENTIAL Blood Warden, but deal with EGC timer"
Or
"Don't open the gate, don't activate EGC, reap the benefits, but POTENTIALLY deal with blood warden. If the killer runs it."
It would also allow killers to have a perk that doesn't have one of its activation conditions as "open the exit gates for survivors"
One perk that is made as an endgame perk. Could DETER 99ing. Without ever changing it as an option.
5 -
What if the switches were switched. One switch opens the opposite gate.
99 all ya want. Better have some coordination.
1 -
End game collapse works fine as a way to avoid teams refusing to leave and bully or hide for 5-10 minutes when they have already won.
as killer I am happy enough for that no other changes are needed
0 -
Nothing needs to be fixed lmao
1 -
None of those are really things that need to be addressed, though. If you are using Blood Warden- and the vast majority of people aren't- you can open up the gates yourself. If you want to start the timer and get add some pressure to the survivors, you can also open the gates yourself. But in either case, this is a direct upgrade to what we had before where you had no control over the situation and solely relied on the survivors opening a gate, in spite of the EGC not being designed to give you more pressure or kills.
9 -
Fair enough, EGC aside then since you say it isnt designed for killer pressure.
I will argue that opening the gate doesn't apply pressure except in VERY certain and specific scenarios.
Opening the gate to activate EGC and MAYBE get a down to activate BW at the cost of giving them a free escape if you fail to do so. Seems like a heavy price for a 60 second gain. Which is why nobody runs BW.
The change to BW would make it more popular I imagine since the activation condition would be easier to achieve. And it would deter 99ing because of the potential of it being there.
Similarly, when people see hexes with no immediate impact on them, they may leave the hex in case it's Haunted Ground. A choice. Deal with the potential negatives of breaking it. Deal with the potential negatives of leaving it.
With the BW change. Both options are still viable. Open or 99. But the POTENTIAL is what makes it scary.
I agree 100% it doesn't NEED to be fixed. I'm just spitballing things that might be a fun alternative. Imagine 99ing and the whole team runs in t-bagging the killer and they see BW had been activated from an earlier hook. 4 people all freaking out, scattering.
I'm a survivor main and that sounds exhilarating. Just that "oh crap" moment. Those are the best.
3 -
I think they should just regress when a survivor let's go of the gate.
2 -
To play dveil's advocate advocate. The survivors mission should be to survive by any means neccesary not stay to do totems, open chests, bully the killer, or find ways to farm more points. The only resaon I could see you not opening the gate is to go for a save. Nothing else.
Also that's a terrible idea "Just open the gate and force them out". So not only is Killer expected to lose 2 gens in the first couple minutes of the match, but is not expected to be able to win at the end of the match either? The only reason a Killer should ever open the gate is to utilize Blood Warden. Otherwise that's precious time the killer needs to complete their goal. Telling them to "just open the gate and push them out yourself", your basically just telling Killers that survivors are broken, suck it up, and move on.
I'm really surprised a Dev's response to anyone finding EGC to be a problem is "Survivors should ignore their goal, and Killers should give free escapes".
4 -
Blood Warden Activates on a hook after the gates are open. Realistically blood warden needs all these to be used:
1: Down a survivor durring a very risky end segment.
2: Hope I down them near a gate so I can go open it.
3: Return to the down survivor and hook them.
remember. Most of the time gates 99%. So all 3 of them can easily run off. Heal her very quickly. Then safely open the gate since it's basically open as far as any killr is concerned. Talk about high risk and high demands for an extra minute. An extra minute you most likely won't get most get most of the time. This thing needs more upkeep than HEX: DH!
This now makes it so that blood warden is clearly very loudly telegraphed because everyone is going to go "Oh blood warden ,that's why he open the gates. Why else?"
There is no pressure while the gates are opened. Pressure comes with actual risk. No survivor is sweating because they can't lazily cross a threshold to freedom. All this does is stop...well no...it dosen't even really stop. It reduces tea bagging at the exit gate from about 10 minutes to 3. If a survivor died to EGC in this position they let themselves die basically.
Killer activating the gate is normally a concession. I am at the gate...most killers are m1. This means EGC starts and the survivors go-gates open boys- I slap them in the butt with my killy stick and they injury boost to freedom. Unless you pick NOED.
You are right, however, EGC is a direct upgrade to what we had before. And we like that upgrade. So I personally would like to see it actually get used for it's nerve racking, climax match producing effect fun. When I as killer get the red moon chance to chase someone as the EGC is in effect to the exit gate. It's fun. It's thrilling. If I lose them or not, it's all knives edge. Especially when I'm chainsawing or oni dashing.
It's a good upgrade and we want to see more of it but right now this meta-more or less renders it...not there except to make people leave the gate when it could be doing so much more. And the thing is...if you can get more out of something...be it it's intended effect or not. ANd that something actually brings the match to a climax...more so than the gate opening mechanic itself anyway.
Why not use what you got.
2 -
I think this thread, and Dev's response is a good sum up of why when there was a problem with Survivors taking the game hostage by hiding. They decided to give those same Survivors the hatch as a free win mechanic.
0 -
How dare those darn survivors stay longer than you want them to to get extra points, items or even give the killer extra points! If you hate them staying for longer, look around in places where they will be. I've had so many times where a survivor stays longer than they should of and I end up getting a free kill because of it.
3 -
Well, the dev team have obviously come a long way, and hindsight is a wonderful thing, so while now the hatch may seem awful, back then it solved a problem, now the end game with one survivor left is very killer sided, it was once very survivor sided. I don't see the issue, the EGC was made to make sure a match ends, and killers KEEP trying to make it seem like it is a tool for them, when it isn't.
7 -
Right because the killer doesn't lose emblem points to
- survivors healing,
- escaping grasp via ds, flashlight stun, pallet stun, bodyblocking, sabotaging hooks, etc.
- staying in close proximity to hooked survivors
What points are you talking about? The BP values that I have already maxed in all catagories, because you get +100 in every bp catagory for doing literally anything from using your power, hitting survivors, or just looking at a survivor?
Yeah no. At the end of a match. I want you to gtfo, or die trying.
3 -
Okay? But you were complaining about survivors staying longer than YOU wanted them to. Stop complaining about the other side doing whatever they can to benefit themselves. You're looking out for yourself, so stop whining when survivors do the same. Like I said, they get caught out all the time anyway trying to get themselves extra stuff, so I don't see why there is even a reason to complain. Force them out when you can, or run a tracking perk like Whispers if you want to prevent them from trying to maximize their games.
4 -
I don't see it as a tool for killers, as I see it as the last thing in the way of a survivors completing their objective. Which is surviving. Though you are free to assume whatever you want, but i'm sure you know how the saying about being assumptious goes.
1 -
They are not looking out for themself. They are directly ignoring their objective becasue they don't have a threat anymore to complete their objective.
The Killer's objective is to kill.
But sure, keep trying to twist what i'm talking about - it's doing you wonders.
0 -
What are you on about? You're literally sitting here complaining about the fact that survivors choose to maximize their games when they have the opportunity to do so. Once the main objective is done, they look for side objectives to do when they have the chance. It makes zero sense to do the side objectives before the main objectives.
3 -
If only the killer didn't have to wait 2 minutes after they give up either 🤣
1 -
From your replies... and all the other killers you're definitely trying to make it a tool for killers. Your ideas would make it just that, if you don't put the EGC on, the gate regresses, meaning saving is 100% likely to turn into a trade as you wont be able to save, and open the door (in most scenarios) before the killer gets there. So you then HAVE to put EGC on and then play around the timer. This thread and your comments are LITERALLY trying to make it a tool to pressure survivors into doing/not doing things in an attempt to aid killers further.
7 -
Don't give up then. You have the option to force them out or find them. Stop complaining about your choices to not exercise an action that you can do. What do you expect them to do after you give up? You're giving them the opportunity to get extra items or points.
3 -
I think they should regress slowly to like 90% just so they have to at least hold it for a few seconds if they leave it.
It does seem silly that you can just 99 gates every time and that means no one can ever use blood warden anymore. Like it's a counter that requires no real effort beyond knowing that the perk exists and just only tapping it when it's time to go.
You already have to down and hook someone to activate it, having a counter that is reliable like 98% of the time seems a bit much.
But that is like the ONLY reason I can think to change this, and honestly I hate dying to blood warden so I hope they never do that haha.
1 -
Still your trying to twist it. The survivors only objective is to survive, saving others I believe is fine. If you leave a door at 99 and go for a save, to me that's also fine. Though not really needed as HAVING SOMEONE ON HOOK SLOWS THE EGC TIMER. To that extent, the dev's have already taken the precautions to cater to the survivors that want to make saves at the end of the game. What other use does leaving the door at 99 do? To bully the killer, farm points, and find items. Two of those things are things that i'm pretty sure the Dev's don't like?
From what I suggested, the gates regressing. Then the Killer would have a chance to stop both survivors from getting out, and when gen's get done so fast - that's what most killers only have to rely on. It would be immensly difficult for 2 survivors, but easy for 3.
I also have a belief that when the last gen pops the game should just end. I wouldn't mind that either. Remove the hatch while they are at it. However if the gates exist, EGC exists. Then I am going to want to balance it for both sides, not just one. Regardless what you try to twist what I say, or assume what I believe i'm going to be against bullying any player, and suggest things to move away from having players have the ability of doing that.
1 -
When I say there is 0 threat. I mean there is 0 threat, and I don't think any player should be given free win's without some work.
0 -
Oh give it a rest with the woe is me, it's embarrassing. Do you not think it's logical to not put yourself under a timer when you have to save someone? It's pure LOGIC, not to bully you. Additionally, other people could go down and need to be rescued, WHY put a timer on it, who cares if it extends the timer when someone is down when you can JUST NOT PUT A TIMER ON IT. Not every survivor is out to get you, although from all your comments you seem to want to act that way, and I'm not even going to properly address your second paragraph due to it's absurdity and defeatist attitude.
5 -
When I'm playing survivor and get close to a gate that was only 99'd it's going to be 100 real quick. I've seen too many times where you end up with 2 or 3 survivors dead because someone 99'd a gate trying to save one person. The couple of seconds it takes to run beside the gate, hit that last 1 percent, and then get out as opposed to being able to run straight out can make all the difference.
1 -
Give it a rest with your mind games. I don't even know when I once said anything that would even try to make me sound like a victim 🤣. I am red ranks survivor just as much as I am a red rank killer. I abuse 99ing the exit gate, and hatch just as much as the next guy. Which is why at the same time I understand that if you are playing a game where your one and only goal is it "Survive at any means neccesary". Ignoring that objective to give another player the chance at securing that same objective should come with some kind of fallback on yourself. It should not be that you can just 99 a door, and then 2 people escape for free.
Then again with this thread and several other threads I see you in. This is all you can do to try and push your personal survivor sided opinions.
1 -
How about Hex: Ruin passively regressing the gates as well? Like a bonus for the lil fella living that long....
0 -
I agree, it's a solution in search of a problem. EGC has its purpose and already favors The Killer. You don't even have to Chase, because The Entity will kill them for you and you get full credit. If I killed three and one gets out, not losing sleep over it.
1 -
We know that what we want is to put pressure on survivors to make on the fly moves not just to all heal up at a 3 lit door then bone rush the hook because they can.
Opening the door your self as a Killer isn't very advantageous because it freely provides the Survivors a means of escape. Changing EGC to the last gen puts the pressure on survivors to make these so called last minute things.
This game is so survivor favored already how about cutting the Killers a break and actually making survivors sweat once in a while. "Do I look for his totem or do I save myself?, do I go for this unhook?" Give survivors a bit of stress room.
1 -
Nothing needs to be changed. Killers can open the gates when they want to.
1
