What about adding a time limit to matches?
We all played this game ( at least I hope so :p).
We all had that match where nothing was getting done and you really wish it would just end. On both sides.
So I got an idea to end these, add a time limit to the match.
This should solve all issues with "X player(s) took the match hostage and I had to dc".
And even bugs, with a time limit the match must end no matter what, so you can just brute force the end.
Pretty simple on the lore side, the entity gets bored if it takes too long and just ends the trial to start a new one.
And what is the time? Simple. 20 minutes.
That is more than enough for probably 99% of matches where progress is actually being made.
I wanna post this on feedbacks and suggestions aswell, but first I wanna see what people think about it and get a more "popular approved" version of it.
Comments
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The biggest problem will be what happens at the end off the 20 min take F13 after 20 min the match ends and you survive but that was built in as a win for survivors to survive the night, so what would it be for DBD if survivors get it classed as a escape then matches can be dragged out for the 20 min, if killers win and survivors get killed like the EGC after 20 min or no one gets anything and the match ends there is no real way to balance it.
To me i would say give killers the win as survivors had 20 min to do the gens and get out and if the timer hits 0 then any survivors left gets killed but i would drop the time limit down to maybe 15 if not less put pressure on both sides before the timer ends and give less points to the killer if a survivor dies that way to stop killers dragging out the match for no reason.
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I agree that the talking point here should be what happens after the 20 minutes are up, but I don't think the timer should be less than that, and I don't think the victory should be awarded to either side. There's no way to do it fairly unless you find a way to give both sides the win.
For example, I once played a match against a Plague where there were two survivors remaining. Neither of us were sick, and getting sick would obviously have been a death sentence. She was patrolling generators, vomiting on them all, so if we touched one we would get sick immediately. Because we couldn't get sick, we had to wait the 30 seconds and then start working on the generator, but we'd only get 20% progress at most before she was back and we had to hide and watch her infect the generator, kick it, and leave. By the time it was safe to touch again, all the progress had regressed.
In that scenario, both the survivors and the killer were playing well by making the best available strategic decisions. It would not have been fair to anyone for the game to end and the victory be awarded to one side or the other, but it was a very long game.
I think probably the best solution would be to introduce an option where all players can vote to concede. I don't think players should be forced to end the game if they still want to be there (we all still enjoyed ourselves in that Plague game, even though it went on forever), but if the game is going too long, and it's not anyone's fault, but no one is having fun, the remaining players should be able to unanimously decide to end the match. In that scenario, everyone would keep the points they have gained so far, and as far as emblems are concerned, killer emblems would be awarded as if the survivors had escaped, and survivor emblems would be awarded as if they had died, so no one gets rewarded for something they didn't do.
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I agree with that, I would love to see a timer for a game, I hate to have those 20min machtes because the last 2 survivors are just immersing around and camping hatch, not touching any gen.
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I dont want a time limit on the entire match, but it would be nice if there was a "time limit" of sorts on survivors not doing anything to progress the game for an X amount of minutes.
Not touching gens, not being chased, X amount of minutes pass, get crows.
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Probably a victory for the killer, since he successfully stopped the survivors from escaping.
I don't think that would work. People just wouldn't concede. They would say "if you want the game to end then let me (kill you / finish the gens)"
Also, the survivors didn't escape, so they lost.
The game you described sounds absolutely boring for the plague. Just walking back and forth hoping the survivors stop being so immersed so she can play the game.
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I agree. However, if they were a bit smart, one could DC and the other one can have the hatch ( in case there were 2 people left )
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F13 was a crapshoot with that time limit rewarding the survivor. You just hide all match or abuse the stamina mechanic to run forever.
If DBD ever got it, it should just flat out activate the End Game Collapse whether the gate or hatch are powered or not. Killer clearly has enough presence to prevent gens from being done.
Survivors can get their ######### together by then. And if not, it's probably their fault they're in that position anyways.
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I don't see how this would make a difference. DC penalties are in effect. The dude would just shoot hinself in the foot
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That's why it has to be unanimous. My idea is only meant to come into play in a situation where no one was having fun, as you described in your OP.
And one could just as easily argue that the killer didn't manage to kill the survivors, so they lost. That's my point - it's not fair to either side to arbitrarily award an unearned victory.
If you can come up with a different way to end a game fairly where both sides win or both sides lose, I'd be happy to hear it.
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yes a time limit would be nice, when it's reached, all the players lose including the killer.
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Anyone ever played bomberman.
Once the time is up giant square blocks drop along the perimeter of the map making the map a lot smaller. Everything is double speed, player movement and repair times. All the killer should have to do is open pull a switch to activate end game.
Honestly opening an exit seems very anti killer if the Survivor is just hiding for hours. Killers should imo have the power to just start end game without leaving a gate fully open.
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I agree with the time limit, but it would need to be very situational.
Perhaps if it started once there were 2 survivors left and only if they haven't touched a gen/been chased in 3 minutes?
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You would be surprised of what can SWF's do.
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That's what I'm saying, it will never be unanimous.
The time limit has to be set in stone. This is the max amount of time you have, do your objective.
And one could just as easily argue that the killer didn't manage to kill the survivors, so they lost.
During the egc the entity already kills the survivors, what would be the difference in this case? There's a time limit to escape, you didn't escape in time, you died.
The only difference is that the time limit is in place at the start of the game.
If you can come up with a different way to end a game fairly where both sides win or both sides lose, I'd be happy to hear it
Why does it have to be 2 wins or 2 loses?
The survivors are the ones that push the game forward, the killers are the reactive role. So it makes sense that in this scenario the survivors lost.
It's like payload maps in team fortress 2. Doesn't matter how amazing the fight is, if you don't push the payload to the objective before the time limit, it's your loss.
My idea is only meant to come into play in a situation where no one was having fun, as you described in your OP.
That is not what I wrote. I said "YOU just want it to end". The other side is not a part of it.
The "both sides" part, simply means this happens when ypu play survivor or killer.
Why? And what do you mean by lose? No one is losing any emblem score or bps in this.
Why does it have to be situational?
The conditions you said just let the game go forever as long as someone taps a gen every now and again.
This is already a thing, what would be different about it?
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It needs to be situational because who would the game decide is the winner?
If it's a draw then the losing side would have sore losers that will just hide till the time limit is up to avoid a loss.
What I said was just an example that could easily be tweaked hence me saying perhaps. It could easily be changed to having to work on a gen for 5 seconds consecutively as another example.
There are times that I've steamrolled the survivors in 10mins and the last 2 just hide and do nothing.
With your example I have to wait 10mins for the game to end as a draw? Or would it be a win for the killer? In which case it means that in situatuons when 4 gens are done in 5/6 mins and they get 3 genned, the killer just needs to hold out till the timer runs out? Legion would be perfect for this scenario, and borderline holding the game hostage.
Again, I think a time limit is a good idea, but it needs to be conditional. With that being said, people that play this game will find a way to abuse anything haha.
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You could say that after 20 minutes the EGC begins like it would if you closed the hatch
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let's all play killer......
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You can't take the game hostage. Had a camping Ghostface a few days ago...he camped to death three of us. I made my way to the gate because no reason to try for an unhook as he would be camping and let a person playing a pretty scummy play style get a 4K. Time went by...he passed me at least twice...not finding me as I am pretty good at staying in hiding...lots of practice when you could actually take the game hostage...think my record stands at about 45 minutes (I was eventually found and killed that game btw)...he sent me a message at about the 8 minute mark asking me to stop hiding...nope...not on your life...he finally closed the hatch, I opened the gate, I waited form him to show up which he did a minute later...I tbagged him (as he deserved it) and I left and the game ended. He could have easily ended it sooner...find me (and he had whispers too to no avail) or find the hatch...he decided to take his time so that is on him. If I am the last one left and don't have left behind or a map that can track the hatch I am going to find the gate and hide near it and then bounce from hiding spot to hiding spot nearby until the hatch is closed and I can try my 50/50 gamble and if it takes you an hour to find me or the hatch...well again that's on you.
From my perspective it was a very entertaining game and an adding bonus I am sure it annoyed the heck out of him...win win.
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well, but why should the killer win if the time is up. He didnt fullfill his objective either, so he doesnt deserve the win any more than the survivors do.
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He successfully stopped the survivors from escaping. That's a win.
But no one is getting extra bps or emblems for reaching the time limit, so calling it a win or loss is meaningless honestly...
Or after 18 minutes, so the total time is 20 minutes (a little more with dying or hooked survivors)
what are you trying to say here?
I never said this only happens when someone takes the game hostage. I said when this happens the match becomes boring as all hell and there's no reason for it to go on.
When the survivors aren't making any progress towards their goal of escaping for too long, it's classified as taking the game hostage.
There's absolutely nothing that justifies a 45 min game.
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If the game can end you can't take the game hostage. Don't want the game to last 45 minutes then find me or find the hatch or if all 5 gens are done open the gate yourself.
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The game can only end if the survivor screws up or the killer has a good tracking perk( or gets lucky).
It's incredibly easy to stealth around doing nothing without getting found.
So yes, you can take the game hostage. (I hope I don't have to explain how you do it as killer)
And if you decide to hide before all gens get done? What do you want the killer to do? He can't close the hatch, he can't open the gates, he can't find you without getting lucky or a tracking perk.
Stop defending taking the game hostage.
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If there is only one survivor he can't take the game hostage. The killer can find the hatch and the EGC begins and the survivor then must open the gate and leave or he'll be killed by the entity. Now true two people could in theory keep the game tied up forever, but how likely is that...I might have the patience to hang out at the gate for 10 minutes, I bet two people won't. You may have had a point pre-EGC, you don't now. So if there is just me and two gens left I should do gens? What sense does that make? Find the hatch? I like my gate stalking odds better.
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Considering swf is a thing, likely.
I myself had a game like that this last week. They 3 gen'd thrmselves in ormond, and I spent what felt like half an hour walking back and forth on those gens with no progress being done. And one of the gens regressed from 70-80% to nothing.
I had to go around the entire map to try and find someone, opening every locker I saw. I found hatch doing this, and no one was around it. And would go back to the gens to see that nothing had changed.
Eventually I managed to find a claudette when she finally decided to work on a gen. Hooked her, she died. I went to hatch and camped it until the last survivor found it and I closed it on her face.
This game was obnoxious and there was no way the survivors would have won it at that point. But obviously they wanted to go full immerse hoping I find the other one first so they could live...
The claudette wasn't even on death hook, she just gave up after a while because the nea was probably hiding until she died.
So much fun /s
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If there is more than say a gen or two to do and we are down to two survivors--me and one other--and yes I am going into hide and seek mode and I won't go near a gen. If the other gets hooked I will at least think about trying for the save but if it looks like he is staying close to the hook and then I'll wait for them to die and either go for the hatch or go hide near the gate for the 50/50 gate deal. If I get hooked I'll die so the other survivor can get the hatch...if I get slugged...depends how likely it is I will lose a pip if I hang around...if I am going to lose a pip either way I'm giving the hatch.
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Ok. So you agree. It happens and you would do it yourself.
Great, now... do you actually have any actual points against giving a time limit to the matches?
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For me, Instead of a time limit for the match. I would make Idle/AFK crows appear much faster/more agressively if nothing much happens for a while.
As the system is already in the game, it just needs to happen faster if both teams get deadlocked and nether wants to commit.
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The point is you don't need a time limit. If it takes you all day to find the hatch to start the EGC then that is on you. I thought killers were all butt hurt because the games were too fast, now you want a timer to artificially end the games after some arbitrary time limit? If some group of three survivors three gen'ed themselves and decided to stop doing gens...well you can start to chase them right? You can actually down them...shocking I know right?...don't cry for some arbitrary time limit because you can't do your job which is to find and kill survivors. I shouldn't be punished because the killer was too incompetent (like my camping Ghostface) to find the hatch in a reasonable amount of time or find me even when he had perks to do exactly that. You have the tools to end the game in a reasonable amount of time you don't need a crutch to help you...you have enough of those as it is.
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Can you stop putting a hatch where it doesn't belong?
Also please pay attention. NO, I can't chase them, because they ate hiding. NO, I can't find them, because hiding is too easy. So, NO, I can't down them.
Again... shut up about the hatch. This timer has nothing to do with the hatch. This timer is for situations where the game can't end or will take way too long to end.
If there's only 1 survivor left, great! The killer can choose to end the end and so can the survivor. You know what that means? That this situation doesn't apply to the timer. Isn't that great?
So I'll now assume you're just trolling and stop replying until you actually read what I write. Don't know why I expected anything else from a guy named toxic city of salt, but I tried.
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If you can't find them then it is your own fault. You're telling me you can't find at least one of three people? Well that just means you're bad. What's the phrase...oh yeah...."git gud."
And to be precise it is supposed to be "Toxicity Salt" since Toxicnacl and thus Toxic Salt was already taken...not toxic city of salt...but hey that's not bad either really.
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But thats an arteficial arguement, you can turn it around as easy. Because the killer objective is to sacrifice the survivors, and he hasnt done that.
On the other hand, the surivvor objective is to - as the name implies - survive, and they successfully didnt die. Should´t that be a win for them then?
Also, i dont see a need for the games to end faster. I actually enjoy the games that went on for some time, because they usually do so because you have actually a balanced match for once, where both sides get slow sucesses, but neither side dominates.
A time limit would just destroy the only games i actually care about, and which are the goal the new matchmaking hopfully achives.
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Is it? Because if the entity kills everyone at the end of the egc, it counts as a killer win no?
Survivors objective is to escape, not survive.
Also... win or loss is irrelevant. No one is getting any extra bps or emblem points for this. You could say both lost. 🤷♂️
The thing is that the survivors are the active role, getting gens done progress the trial. While killing survivors just end it.
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Eventually, yes. But they can easily make it take half an hour. And that's no fun.
Ok... wasn't certain on how the name should work. My first idea was toxic salty city.🤷♂️
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Proposal:
After 20 minutes in-match if the EGC hasn't begun, and once no survivor is on a hook, an alternate end-game collapse starts. This collapse takes 3 minutes, stops when a survivor is on hook, and progresses at 1/2 speed when a survivor is downed. Hook timers are HALVED during this collapse. If the gates are not powered, they become powered, but take 40 seconds to open. If the gates are powered in this manor, all perks relating to gates being powered or opened (Rancor, Remember Me, Blood Warden, Wake Up, No One Left Behind, anything I missed) are disabled for the rest of the trial. At this point, a cool graphical bit could be added - maybe the entity's tendrils gripping around the exit gate switch?
When the collapse ends, the entity is engulfed with rage at the player's refusal to play it's game. It slays all players who remain, killer and survivor alike, breaking their bodies, and casting their souls into the next trial to entertain it more properly.
If the gates where powered before the collapse, all survivor ranks are resolved normally. If the gates where powered by the collapse, survivors cannot earn 2 pips, and their requirements to earn 1 pip are increased to the requirement for 2 pips.
If the gates where powered before the collapse, the killer's rank is resolved normally. If the gates where powered by the collapse, the killer is guaranteed a safety pip, but their rank is otherwise treated normally.
The onus is on the survivors to progress the game - they are given numerous tools to evade the killer, and they have the power to force the game to eventually come except in the case of some banable exploits. If survivors can't power the gates in 20 minutes, they clearly ought to have a reduced ability to pip. The guaranteed safety for killer if the alternate collapse powers the gates is to prevent survivors from ensuring the killer depips by refusing to play the game and letting it end with no interaction via the alternate EGC.
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In general I like it.
This collapse takes 3 minutes, stops when a survivor is on hook, and progresses at 1/2 speed when a survivor is downed. Hook timers are HALVED during this collapse.
But why all this time stuff? Surely a regular EGC would work just fine, no?
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Okay, but like, that doesn't "fix" hostage taking.
I don't want to waste 20 minutes stuck hostage in a match, only to have my reports mean nothing just because "the match technically ended without a DC".
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But you won't have to dc. So while it's a ######### way of playing, the game can't be taken hostage anymore.
And you won't waste 20 minutes like that either way. Even if the killer finds and corner you in 1 minute. Because the other will just finish the gens and open a door in less than 5 minutes.
And as killer you can still find the survivors, but either way the game will end sooner than if this wasn't in place
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To ensure that it isn't at all exploitable or desirable for either side. The idea here is to force the players to finish the game, quickly or all lose out, rather than the normal EGC which is aimed at forcing the survivors to get out quickly or lose.
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But it's 20 minutes in. 90% of games don't pass 15 minutes. We don't need extra time.
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Okay than, start it at 19 or 18 minutes? I'm not really looking to take a hard stance on the exact timing.
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I agree with a match timer but I would propose 15 min, after which all survivors die, killer gets no extra points for these deaths.
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Idk... 15 min cover the usual match lenght no problem. But it feels a bit short.
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I have played plenty of games that are ACTIVE and close to 40 minutes. It should register that nothing is being done and give a countdown depending on how many gens are left instead.
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I don't believe you.
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