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Is The Trapper's Power Outdated?
The Trapper is the only set-up killer in the game whose power he has to collect throughout the map.
The Hag, Freddy, and others do not have this issue. Oni can collect blood orbs in a chase. The Trapper usually has to spend valuable time collecting, setting up, and so on. This is why his bag add one are so strong; they cut the time needed for set up.
Thing is, I feel this ability is outdated in it's design. The Hag starts with all her traps. Freddy has all his traps. The Clown doesn't have to match around the map looking for bottles. Even the Huntress only has to reload every so often.
Why is the Trapper made so inaccessible compared to other killers? Give him all his traps, rework his bag addons.
Is The Trapper's Power Outdated? 29 votes
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Comments
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No, the design needs some minor changes and that's it
I don't want to change the core of Trapper though, even though it sucks having to go across the map to fetch a trap at the other end, it makes him distinctive. (This could also be easily remedied by straight up not allowing traps to spawn on the very edges of the map IE Swamp maps [ugh])
Might be an unpopular opinion, but to me it makes the traps feel more weighty, more significant and permanent than the "traps" The Hag and Freddy "carry" around. And that's because they are, they deal damage and pin a survivor in place which isn't outdated in the slightest, it provides map pressure and cuts off loops (even if a survivor knows they are there) and when it works it's really viable.
Not to mention, if we're thinking long term keeping the Trapper as he is rather than streamlining his ability to be the exact same (which is always boring) as the other killers paves the way to create new characters like the Trapper instead of like Freddy and Hag. Killers who have belongings spread out across the map that they need to pick up along the way but to compensate have significant game changing effects.
Is it perfect? No, but I don't think the core design needs to be changed itself, I really don't like the idea of Trapper starting out with all his traps, being the first killer to ever exist has given a lot of people in the community (including myself) a lot of time to think about how the Trapper could be better. Here are a few of my ideas:
Trap Spawn locations
Change trap spawns, they're useless at the edges of the map to the point where you will never realistically have enough time to pick one or two up. Leaving you at a permanent disadvantage because you don't have access to the full scale of your ability, scatter them closer around the map's center or around generators. Since your whole job as killer in the early game is to slow down and stop as much generator progress and completion, the generators are areas you will likely pass through or close by so it would be really smart to make it more likely for traps to spawn in their vicinity.
Buffing the power itself
To compensate for the weaknesses of the bear trap IE the amount of time it takes to find a trap, pick it up, and place it in a viable are, as well as being far too easy for Survivors to see traps and disable them outright, it should be more powerful in certain aspects. The latter would be the part of the ability I would make changes to. In comparison to Trappers trapping counterparts, Hag's traps can be disabled even more easily but they 1. require the use of a flashlight and 2. are extremely difficult to spot (slightly easier on some maps than others), and Freddy's traps can never be disabled at all, though they can be "inactive" as long as a survivor is awake.
What I would do is make it more of a risk to disable a trap. It's always confused me why survivors are so easily able to disarm traps so precisely without any risk to themselves. I don't know about you, but I'd freak the ######### out if you told me I had to stick my hand inside a bear trap to trigger it's trigger mechanism to close it, and it's pretty likely my hand would get caught. This is exactly how Trapper's traps should act in the game, they should ALWAYS be a risk whenever they're open, a risk to step in but also a risk to disarm.
Bloody coil integration
Currently Trapper has a really great Ultra rare add-on which injures healthy survivors who disarm traps. What I'm saying is integrate a less powerful version of this addon into Trapper's base kit. Make it a 25% or even lower say 20, 15, or even a 10% chance for a healthy survivor to become injured whenever disarming Trapper's traps. If you're not a fan of that, you could instead make it a 33% chance for a tremendously difficult skill check to pop up, if you miss the tremendously difficult skillcheck the trap will snap shut and injure any healthy survivors.
The Ultra rare add on would still be a good option to use, because it changes this from being RNG to a guarantee that healthy survivors will be injured if they try to disarm a trap. However, it wouldn't be as good / useful anymore (at least not as good as ultra rares should be) since it would be slightly integrated into his kit so in response to this change it would receive some minor buffs.
Bloody Coil buffs (in response to base kit integration):
Moderately decreases the repair speed of Survivors who have disarmed a trap for 120 seconds, disarming a trap will cause a survivor to yell and reveal their location for 3 seconds
These are just some logical effects that I thought would make sense with the bloody coil, if you're getting injured by a trap because you stuck your hand into it, it doesn't make the most sense that you would be able to use that same hand to then perfectly repair a complex piece of machinery like a generator. Also, getting your hand caught in a bear trap I think would make anyone yell in pain so that makes sense as well (provides the same effect as having your ankle caught in the trap).
Trap visibility
I would also buff how visible the traps themselves actually are, in comparison to the Hag scrawls in the dirt or the pools of blood Freddy creates (which can be perfectly hidden under grass and are completely invisible [but inactive] while you're awake) the Trapper's Traps stick out like a sore thumb. I would make the Logwood Dye or Tar bottle the base coloration of the trap, and then buff those add-ons in response to make the Traps even darker.
The idea here is that the Traps should be imposing and intimidating devices, and you should never be completely calm and at ease when disarming a beartrap.
The Trial Warmup
Finally the last thing I would do is incorporate Scott Jund's "Trial Warmup" idea. This was an idea Scott Jund created a couple weeks ago that while it does benefit all killers (especially ones who have poor map mobility and map pressure in early game like the Clown) specifically benefits trapping killers who require setup time to be effective. IE The Hag, Freddy, and most especially and importantly the Trapper.
The basic way that it works is the same way the Endgame Collapse speeds up the end of a trial or match, The "Trial Warmup" slows down the beginning of the match and prevents survivors from popping 3 generators in 120 seconds by which time a killer may not have even engaged in a single chase yet. At the beginning of a trial Survivors are under a repair speed debuff of something really heavy or drastic, at minimum 50% but perhaps something like 75% slower than normal repair speed. The Trial Warmup ends when 1 of 3 conditions have been met: A chase has been initiated between a killer or survivor, a survivor's healthstate has changed from healthy to injured, or a killer come in contact with a survivor by a proximity of 4 meters.
Here is the original video from Scott Jund describing it in more detail (there are also some great comments below this video of people adding on great ideas like deactivating all perks while the Trial Warmup is in progress, so read those too)
Concluding
Between all of these ideas I think there's plenty of room for both the Trapper (and game) to grow and develop without requiring a change to his core design. That's all I got for now
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Yes, it's design needs to change
Eh. I think you mistake something being convenient with being boring. Idk about you but I don't have fun having to force quit a chase and grab a trap, or not maximizing my efficiency with where I travel just because the killer has a bad gimmick.
I've been trying to main trapper. He is super satisfying to play but I will say one of the most frustrating things is the hard limit of carrying traps.
It also sounds like you've never had someone step in a trap a bit too far and have them escape first try in front of you. Hag and Freddy don't rely on RNG. Trapper does.
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No, the design needs some minor changes and that's it
...That's all you got out of that whole thing? Bruh.
"It also sounds like you've never had someone step in a trap a bit too far and have them escape first try in front of you. Hag and Freddy don't rely on RNG. Trapper does."
You make it sound like I just got the game yesterday.
And I mean sure, you could increase the amount of traps Trapper can hold at one time at base from 1 - 2 and then make the addons increase even further to allow him to hold 3 with the Trapper Sack 4 with the Trapper Bag and Stitched Bag add ons. But that's a pretty surface level issue if I'm honest and I try to dig a lot, lot deeper than that with my response. You just kinda said "Eh" and ignored most of the whole thing...
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Trapper should have Basekit Brown bag: at least able to carry 2 traps.
Trapper should have Yellow darken, so hes able to setup traps at least in short grass. His current traps only able to setup in high grass.
All traps should spawn at least 20m away from edge map.
Remove high RNG, Healthy Survivor trapped get random 3-4 attempt to escape, Injured Survivor trapped get random 5-6. Green stone add 2more attempt.
All of Trapper addon, Bags give him the most benefit in both saving time (able to carry more traps mean save at least 15sec to pick up each trap in the beginning; while setup traps faster save you only 0.5-1sec trap set up each time), and add more power to Trapper (get additional 1 trap with Brown bag, 2 traps with Purple bag).
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Yes, it's design needs to change
Its because I had nothing else to add or comment about to the rest of your post. I wasn't going to nitpick your points, I only really wanted to comment on your thought process of keeping him from just starting out with all his traps. Which I don't understand. I get you think that "streamlining" his ability would be "boring" but in reality it only sounds like you want to keep the gimmick because its a gimmick, and not because it does anyone any benefit to the gameplay loop of the Trapper. Being forced to pick up traps is one of the worst things about him, as his set-up time is already very long and requires a lot more strategy than a Freddy or even a Hag.
The latter is not a bad thing, but when its piled up with a mechanic that's only been lightly touched on since when I joined the Beta (having to pick up his traps) its an unnecessary feature, not a unique thing about his power.
I mean, the Plague has a better gimmick; she gains more from breaking chases or using time to drink up from a Corrupted Fountain. But that's a portion of her power, and its powerful enough to stand on its own so that she can make up for the loss of time.
The Trapper doesn't have any immediate gains. He has to trap everything just right, and be careful that nobody is watching him. On its own, that's not a bad thing, but as I said, that adds up with the having to find traps and setting up.
Making him go pick up traps would still harm him significantly, even with the rest of your changes in mind. Its not a unique mechanic, is a bad gimmick that stunts him in the game, and should be reworked to keep up with the other killers. Call it "boring streamlining" but I'd actually want this game to not be hair-pulled-out frustrating for once.
As for the rest of what you said, as I stated above, I have nothing more to add. I agree with most of it (Though I think the Trial Warmup fixes little to nothing, I don't agree with Jund's 'fix' on that end).
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Yes, it's design needs to change
Most issues have been said about trapper. My issues is he is countered hard by headsets. When one person see's him plant a trap they all know where it is. I wonder if it would not be better if his traps were deployed like freddys snares. Move your hand, push a button and the traps is deployed. Slowly arms itself after a time.
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Yes, it's design needs to change
Maybe not that instant. I don't think making him a supernatural killer would do him any justice.
His set up is fine. SWF counters everything in this game anyway. The problem is that he has to wander around trying to put down traps and pick others up.
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Yes, it's design needs to change
If it can't be super natural how about an alternate trap. Like one he designed himself. He literally drops it where he is standing and it arms itself after a fair amount of time?
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No, the design needs some minor changes and that's it
I agree with your general assessment of the killer, and I think some of these ideas have serious potential. I also think the popular idea of making the Trapper Bag basekit is a solid one, and would do a lot to make him less frustrating to play.
I kind of like the idea of survivors having a chance to get injured disarming a trap (although I think it should be RNG, not skillcheck-based, since Trapper's problem is mostly at high ranks where people are good at skill checks, so there's no need to punish new players more). And making traps a little less visible (maybe like Logwood Dye level) would also help with this, although I'm not convinced it's necessary since good Trappers tend to rely less on their traps not being seen and more on putting them in unexpected places where survivors won't even think to look.
His main weakness is game speed, so having a chance for survivors to be injured disarming traps and also allowing him to carry more than one trap at a time would go a long way toward improving that, I think.
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No, the design needs some minor changes and that's it
"Hag and Freddy don't rely on RNG"
Hag relies on RNG of map size as her traps can only be Teleported to within a certain distance without add-ons
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Yes, it's design needs to change
Yes, extremely so. He is positively archaic, even with his recent changes. He needs a lot of upgrades and quality of life improvements.
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No, the design needs some minor changes and that's it
It's an interesting power and the Bear Traps are a symbol of this game, sort of. The Trapper is. Completely reworking his power would take away this nostalgia feeling. He just needs some buffs.
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No, the design needs some minor changes and that's it
For resetting traps to be not useless, be it manullay or automatic with the addon, the devs need to change the way traps snap towards survivors.
Survivors are additionally still able to walk over traps without triggering it.
- Increase the trap aoe
- Move survivors to the trap location, not like it currently is (sadly i remember peanits being against this important change)
- Survivors should get a debuff of some kind after getting out of a trap they triggered while injured. Be it Deep wounds or one of the basic debuffs like mangled or hindered.
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No, the design needs some minor changes and that's it
I mean I feel like this is just the point where we land on a "agree to disagree" type of situation, though sure I will say you've got some valid points and at the end of the day your changes or mine (though of course I prefer mine for obvious reasons already stated) I do just want to see Trapper be better and more viable however it's done.
At the same time though I'll take the opportunity to really vouch for Jund's proposed fix because I truly believe it is one of the best ideas I've heard in all my time discussing Dead By Daylight balance, ever since I joined the community in July of 2016 a few weeks after launch in June. We're not talking about just a benefit for existing and future setup killers like Trapper, Hag, (and Freddy to an extent) we're talking about all killers who lack the mobility or pressure to slow and stop the progress of generators popping extremely quickly as soon as possible early game.
We're talking
The Clown, The Cannibal, The Pig, The Legion, The Wraith, The Demogorgon, Michael Myers, The Plague, basically every killer who isn't top tier or has the capability to earn consistent and quick early game leads that slow progression significantly enough to the point where they can put up a bit of actual resistance to the infamous generator rush, SWF, squad that's got a different man on three different generators and one guy leading the killer on a 60+ second chase.
It takes a decent chunk of time to even traverse the map, which in itself is reliant on RNG you could either be ok with a decently sized or smaller map, or at a serious disadvantage because you're on a bigger one that takes more time to comb through for survivors. Often leading to a generator or even two to go off before you can find a single person. The solution Scott is describing, is one where you are guaranteed to initiate a chase before any significant amount of progression takes place. Even if you don't see any generators popping you might have at least 1 generator more than half done by the time you find someone, if they survivors are more spread out, make that multiple.
By adding on to the idea and making it so that perks are deactivated for the duration of the Trial Warmup we're also looking at a potential rebalancing of perks. For example survivors running Object of Obsession won't be able to spin their cameras around at the beginning of a match to figure out exactly who the killer is and where they are. If a chase hasn't been initiated (aka The Trial Warmup is still in progress), a survivor who's far away won't be able to take advantage of a perk like Sprint Burst, Lithe, Or Balanced Landing to sprint off even further away to put more distance between you and them. Perks like Premonition or Spine Chill would not work during the Trial Warmup so outside of a Terror Radius survivors would not have any early indicators a killer is coming toward them, and of course perks that speed up the progress of generators such as Prove Thyself, Streetwise, Resilience, The aforementioned spine chill, etc. would not be active, so there's no way to cheat out the debuff to repair speed.
On the other hand, this would actually uniquely positively impact a perk such as Corrupt Intervention, because it blocks the three generators farthest on the map only for 120 seconds much of that time is wasted trying to find survivors rather than actually gaining an early pressure lead. Survivors typically respond by staying immersed for the full duration of 120 seconds before working on a generator so as to not needlessly stick their necks out in front of the killer when fewer generator progress is being made. Often resulting in just a wasted and frankly boring 120 seconds where nothing is happening, and really only served to make the match 2 minutes longer than it would have been. If the Trial Warmup were to deactivate perks right at the beginning Corrupt Intervention would not activate until one of the three conditions have been met which means you've found a survivor. Ensuring you've got some kind of initiative in the match where you get to possibly down and hook someone and three generators are guaranteed to have no progress fro the next 120 ish seconds or less. Giving you a bit more map pressure since you know on the far side of the map you won't have any generator progress and on the other side you've got someone potentially on the hook.
CONCLUDING
Now I'm not saying the Trial Warmup is intended to swing entire games and their outcomes in the favor of the killer, it is not a massive dramatic change that will ensure you get downs and get 4k's. And in fact it is not even meant to solve the issue of Generator rushing, since most gen rushing takes place during a chase where a survivor only has to loop and buy time for their teammates, by which point the Trial Warmup would be over because one of the three conditions have already been met.
However, it is meant to solve or alleviate the problems of 1 issue, and that is survivors having great map pressure and coverage in the early game: popping 1, 2 or more generators almost immediately and snowballing a ridiculous amount of momentum, because of something the killer doesn't have adequate control over or counterplay to be able to respond. It also largely, gives an incredible amount of time for killers who don't want to initiate chases immediately and actually spend a bit of time off by themselves prepping the map or going through some kind of setup phase, something I largely haven't even mentioned at all while writing this, yet I cannot emphasize enough is an extremely important aspect and reason for this change in the first place. Whether that be the Trapper who needs time to find and place beartraps around loops and other sections of the map, the Hag who wants to create map pressure and establish her presence around important areas of the map, or even a character like Michael Myers who wants to stalk survivors from a distance (without initiating a chase) to raise the tier of his Evil Within.
It also happens to be one of the few ideas that have actually seen bipartisan support from both Survivors and Killers. Not only does it provide Killers with the time it takes to both setup and then secure the earliest bits of momentum with a chase, but it also isn't deliberately brutal or annoying for survivors to go through. In contrast to ideas like making pre-nerfed Ruin a base mechanic for all generators on all killers and I cannot overstate it enough, how important it is to highlight ideas within the community that are both beneficial to the balance of the game, without sacrificing the fun of any single party and unite both sides of an already divided group.
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